Curse

chris10188 · Dec 06, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

I recentally started a W/Mo and started asking around to other runners what i should do for a build, but when i told them i only had proficies they laughed and said some comment about it not being possible.

im under the impression i cant make a decent runner build with only proficies and im not going to spend $50 just to make a runner.

is there a build out there or is it REALLY impossible?

Pyro maniac · Dec 06, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

W/Mo's can certainly run. In fact it was the only option for a year in the harder area's.
for the build
you need 2 run skills:
[skill]"Charge!"[/skill]+[skill]Sprint[/skill]
and 6 skill to help you stay alive, from direct healing: [skill]Healing Signet[/skill] to condition and hex removal [skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill]
Other skills that may help:
[skill]Balanced Stance[/skill] for knockdown area's, mostly southern shiverpeaks. [skill]"I Will Survive!"[/skill] may help on conditions that are impossible to remove (apply poison)
[skill]Endure Pain[/skill] is a skill to temporary boost your hp.

with this setup you can pretty much run everything but two runs (beacons-droks and droks-grotto)
As a general tip, don't use your monk skills to much. I still see runners with mending and healing breeze, but it only drains your energy. You only heal when there aren't any mobs surrounding you,, so heal sig is the best choice. with that in mind, the attributes will be 12 strenght and 12 tactics.

good luck ..

MisterB · Dec 06, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Of course it's possible; whoever told you otherwise was mistaken. W/Mo's ran all over Prophecies, including the Beacon's--->Drok's run. It's easier with some of the newer campaign skills, but by no means required. Link: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/...d_Forge_Runner
Signet of Stamina is a NF skill, so that template code won't work for you. Just plug in a condition removal skill, and adjust that build as needed per area.

Sandokap · Dec 06, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Pyro, with the build you posted was absolutely possible to run from Beacon to Droks.

i Valinor · Dec 06, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

i used to run droks with the standard W/mo proph. runner build

Sprint
Heal sig
Charge -E-
Balanced stance
Endure pain
Medning
Purge conditions
Holy veil.

Healing 8
Strenght 11+1
Tactics 12+1+1 for helm

+30 health weapon
+45 health in stance shield with -2 in stance.

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris10188

I recentally started a W/Mo and started asking around to other runners what i should do for a build, but when i told them i only had proficies they laughed and said some comment about it not being possible.

im under the impression i cant make a decent runner build with only proficies and im not going to spend $50 just to make a runner.

is there a build out there or is it REALLY impossible?

The Drok Run, Desert Runs, Ascalon Run, and Jungle Runs are all still very much Warrior viable. I do this regularly, as recently as yesterday. I normally post on the other fan site, and there we have an ongoing Drok Run discussion in the Warrior forum. I ran back in the old beginning days when the game first came out, and I run now.

Another poster recently gave me access to an older online Drok Run guide he had created. I have since updated information there to incorporate the more recent changes, and an overhaul of the classic Drok Run Build, while still using 7/8 Prophecies skills. The only new skill I use is Signet of Stamina from NF. The very detailed guide, can be found here: http://www.freewebs.com/drokrunguide/ Most of the site work was done by Wethospu Braveheart. I only updated it to how things are now.

Two days ago I raced against a Dervish in the Drok Run who even had "I am Unstoppable!". I won because they died 2 times. I died zero. Yes, warrior/monks are very much still good runners. But, I'll be honest, there are some areas we are just not meant to do. I do not believe Warriors are good runners for most of the Southern Shiverpeak runs. You're usually a lot better off with some of the new class combo's. Even the Ascalon -> Beacons run is usually better as something else (I preferred this as a Ra/Mo for a long time). The advantage warriors have is not going down so quickly, and able to recover from being taken advantage of. The other class combos seem to depend too much on specific skills. If something happens to a needed enchant, for example, they tend to go down quickly.

Oh, and when I said I won against the Dervish, I say that because I was the one who walked the group into Snake Dance, and Camp Rankor. I could give a fudge less about making the last leg to Droks, as this is easy peasy. He also seemed to be very inexperienced, as I ran with him a couple other times and bad spawns ate him alive, whereas I would pull through. So I'm sure there are much more capable Dervish runners out there who could blow my doors off, or handle bad spawns as equally well as myself.

In summary,

A Warrior Runner's advantage is in their high armor level. Period. So take advantage of that fact as much as possible. Sentinel's/Knights armor ftw. Radiant ftl.

Lord Natural · Dec 06, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

This was my drok's build for quite a while, and though it's a little unorthodox, it allowed me to power through some bad spawns at the final hill in Lornar's which may not have been possible with a more conventional build. This build still works for me, as a matter of fact. For a while wammo drok's running was a lost art because of bugged Avicara chasing you an entire zone. Since it has been fixed, it's pretty much back to normal.

[skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]balthazar's spirit[/skill][skill]healing breeze[/skill][skill]heal area[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill][skill]balanced stance[/skill][skill]sprint[/skill][skill]"charge!"[/skill]

In fact it was possible to do a full Beacon's to THK/Grotto run with this build, tweaking a skill or two for rankor to warcamp and copper to iron. With the Elemental nerf to absorbtion and shields way back, you can't really "power tank" huge imp mobs like you used to, but maybe it's still possible with a cold +10 shield. I really haven't tried in ages. If I'm doing a Beacon's to Grotto run for a friend, I usually switch back and forth between wammo and Mo/R, depending on what's easiest for a certain leg.

If you're doing an easier run, you can drop crap like balth spirit and heal area for heal sig and condition removal.

So considering you can do a full Tyrian tour with wammo, and Sunspear to Kodaash in Elona, it's far from impossible to run with wammo, it just may be a tick slower than these new invinci dervish and sins all the kids are running around with these days.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 06, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I just tried running classic mending to droks yesterday and made it so that way still works.

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I just tried running classic mending to droks yesterday and made it so that way still works.

I'm sure a lot of builds still work, but how effective are they compared to newer ones? That's my point about running. Some people would look at Lord Natural's build and go "all those healing prayers, are you stupid?", but if you look at his build and actually see what he's doing, you know he's made a build to take on massive amounts of dmg and still pull thru. We know he's probably using Healing Breeze as a cover enchant when running past the avicara, just as we know he's hitting "Watch Yourself!" constantly to reduce the dmg he's taking.

Sure it works. He can get thru most spawns (but so can I), but he also has very little hex removal, and no condition removal. To me that says, you're not 'running', you are 'walking' to Droks. I honestly wonder what kind of time he makes it there. If his clients aren't in a rush, then he's fine, but if they are.. he could be out of some money (if he's running for money mind you). His build opens up a straight up comparison to a Dervish build because of all the enchant juggling. [skill]Chilblains[/skill] from the Grawl can eat him alive if he doesn't keep breeze up.

The way I see it, if you are going to be an effective runner that is going to keep up with the Dervish, Assassins, and Ranger combo's out there nowadays, you gotta be about speed as well as durability. If you're not and are just helping out friends, then old durability builds and energy intensive builds (mending builds) are fine.

I can make a full Drok run in I think around 20-25 mins (honestly I need to time it). The other new class configs are doing it in less then 20. I don't know what my personal best is, but I've seen Rangers do it in 18 mins total. I might be able to get just under 20 if the spawn is nice, but regularly it's going to fluctuate a little as I manipulate the spawn. If I pay someone to run me, I don't want a warrior taking 40 minutes to an hour to do it. I'd rather have another class do it in less than half that time.

I normally run for tips, not straight prices, and I can tell you from experience that the best tips come from people who say "Wow! You're a good runner! You got me there quickly!" This usually gets me bigger monetary rewards then rated prices would anyways. Players who don't know you, appreciate speed and efficiency, especially other runners. They want a pleasant surprise, especially from a Warrior runner nowadays.

I mean think about it. When you get a run, do you really like watching some inexperienced person fumble around with it, or just take a really long time to do it?

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 06, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Really it all depends what one runs I run droks with warrior when i am bored. I never said his build couldn't do it.

Also if you are going for money sin or derv is the fastest runs there are.

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Really it all depends what one runs I run droks with warrior when i am bored. I never said his build couldn't do it.

Nor did I. I said, if speed isn't a concern, they are fine. If speed is a concern because you are doing it for money, then they aren't good builds. I still didn't say they didn't work, just that they weren't as good as others in a particular scenario.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Also if you are going for money sin or derv is the fastest runs there are.

Again, something I admitted to and already agree with. My point was only that if you ARE trying to run as a warrior, you atleast gotta come CLOSE to the Dervs and Sins and Rangers.

Yeah Ranger/Dervs can rip it up too. See for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKVWws5DmkM

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 06, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Warrior running was never really ment for speed iff you ask me. I forgot about the ranger derv builds you don't see to many of them running but ya those work well. Supposeldy eles can run droks, but I think that was an earth tank trying to run it with enchanted haste and stoneflesh i will see if I can find it. It was pretty funny to see never saw it ran though, but in theory it could work.

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Warrior running was never really ment for speed iff you ask me. I forgot about the ranger derv builds you don't see to many of them running but ya those work well. Supposeldy eles can run droks, but I think that was an earth tank trying to run it with enchanted haste and stoneflesh i will see if I can find it. It was pretty funny to see never saw it ran though, but in theory it could work.

Heck yeah, that would be funny to see. I think Rangers are going to see a return with EotN now and "I am unstoppable!"

Most likely Ranger/Assassin using Shadow Form.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 06, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

R/D fleeting or some other Anti KD is a must on the droks run now.

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

R/D fleeting or some other Anti KD is a must on the droks run now.

!KD has always been a must on Droks. Not sure if you don't know about IaU, but it's !KD and !cripple that is not class specific. So a Ra/Sin with it would have awesome sprints, !KD, and full spell and attack protection.

Basically you'll be completely invulnerable hauling serious butt.

Just use Dash over the traps to prevent even bleeding. It will be nutso.

Pyro maniac · Dec 06, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandokap

Pyro, with the build you posted was absolutely possible to run from Beacon to Droks.

ow I tought they made the run harder a while ago, and running without Vow of Silence is almost impossible

ok I'll revise my comment to:
Any run can be done (Although Grotto is hard ... )

Lord Natural · Dec 06, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

stuff

My post was merely to illustrate to the OP that wammo running isn't impossible. I've only ever run drok's for friends, and have never run it as a service, so finding the absolute fastest build was never something I was pre-occupied with. Rather, I was more interested in survivability, as spending an extra 2-3 mins in Lornar's is preferable to dying and starting over. However, I'll have to admit that curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to time a run just now. My time was 19:22 on my first and only attempt, that included a fairly bad Lornar's hill spawn for which I had to wait out 2 barbed traps while enduring a beating. Not the most dignified run, but I made it through. All told, it cut about 2 mins off my time as I had to wait for the right moment to get my skills ready, veil up and run off. So realistically, the build has high 16, low 17 min potential, with a possible over of 2-3 mins depending on bad spawns. It doesn't match A/D or D/A potential, but it's not exactly a walking pace either.

The big advantage of those classes is the ability to avoid knockdowns and snares. With a warrior, you're necessarily slower in snakes dance due to the wait on balanced recharge, with or without agro. Anyway, the run is still faster and easier with those classes. Just pointing out that an extra min or two =/= impossibility

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

My post was merely to illustrate to the OP that wammo running isn't impossible. I've only ever run drok's for friends, and have never run it as a service, so finding the absolute fastest build was never something I was pre-occupied with. Rather, I was more interested in survivability, as spending an extra 2-3 mins in Lornar's is preferable to dying and starting over. However, I'll have to admit that curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to time a run just now. My time was 19:22 on my first and only attempt, that included a fairly bad Lornar's hill spawn for which I had to wait out 2 barbed traps while enduring a beating. Not the most dignified run, but I made it through. All told, it cut about 2 mins off my time as I had to wait for the right moment to get my skills ready, veil up and run off. So realistically, the build has high 16, low 17 min potential, with a possible over of 2-3 mins depending on bad spawns. It doesn't match A/D or D/A potential, but it's not exactly a walking pace either.

The big advantage of those classes is the ability to avoid knockdowns and snares. With a warrior, you're necessarily slower in snakes dance due to the wait on balanced recharge, with or without agro. Anyway, the run is still faster and easier with those classes. Just pointing out that an extra min or two =/= impossibility

I'm not sure if you're getting defensive about your build because of my comments? If you are, don't. I assure you there was no need. I was actually applauding your build. When I first looked at it, I was like wtf? Then I looked deeper and saw what you were doing. You're just choosing the Slow, Steady, and Sure to Arrive method. I figured you were running friends and not clients. I wanted to know how fast it was, and still do.

Now I have a question for you. When you timed yourself, did you do Lonar's in 19:22 or did you get to Drok's in 19:22? Because I wasn't talking about just doing Lonar's in 20 mins, I meant the whole run. Considering a Ranger who ran it non-stop did it in like 19:51 to complete the run (including load times and running thru Camp Rankor).. So I question what exactly you were timing?

Naturally Lord Natural (pun intended

), if it's taking you 20 mins to do 1 leg of 4 for the run.. that's not an 'effective' build for a pro (meaning you do it for money) runner, nor is it particularly impressive in terms of speed.

But in terms of horribly bad spawns, and being able to make 10/10 runs in a row and never dying, that is impressive and I salute your build on that endeavor.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 06, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

!KD has always been a must on Droks. Not sure if you don't know about IaU, but it's !KD and !cripple that is not class specific. So a Ra/Sin with it would have awesome sprints, !KD, and full spell and attack protection.

Basically you'll be completely invulnerable hauling serious butt.

Just use Dash over the traps to prevent even bleeding. It will be nutso.

Wasn't there for a while no wurms on the run those are the worst KD the ice spike is easy to deal with. Just wondering how does a Ranger sin have anti KD. I may just be missing something but last I checked there wasn't any unless you are using pve only skill. then shadow form isn't even worth it. VoS works fine for that plus you get some realy nice runnning skills like pious haste

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Wasn't there for a while no wurms on the run those are the worst KD the ice spike is easy to deal with. Just wondering how does a Ranger sin have anti KD. I may just be missing something but last I checked there wasn't any unless you are using pve only skill. then shadow form isn't even worth it. VoS works fine for that plus you get some realy nice runnning skills like pious haste

Drok always had wurms with KD as far as I know. There was just a period when the AI was messed and they'd track you forever. Heck everything during that period did.

As I mentioned in my earlier post:

"I Am Unstoppable!" - For 12..20 seconds, you have +24 armor and cannot be knocked down or crippled.
Campaign: Eye of the North
Profession: None
Attribute: Norn Title Track
Type: Shout

This is NOT a class specific skill. It's a title track skill. This allows Ranger/Sins to run with !KD up and !cripple via this shout.

The IMS [skill]Dash[/skill] prevents trap dmg because "This is fast enough to pass through a trap and trigger it but not take damage". So using Dash over the Pinesoul areas, prevents you from getting snagged with traps. This would prevent you from being subjected to bleeding via the [skill]barbed trap[/skill]

Which when used with [skill]Shadow form[/skill] basically makes you invulnerable and unable to be knocked down.

Combined with "I Am Unstoppable!", incase you even mess up your Dash and hit a trap, you still won't be crippled. Instead, you'll just keep... on... trucking.