Curse

thor thunder · Dec 13, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Hey!
First thanks for looking/reading.
Now on to the questions.

So I like warriors alot (tho im geting bored of the armor) and im a big sword fan, but i have finaly decided to go back to axes after a year of sword obsesion lol. My question is what are some good Axe builds? witch skills are good witch are bad? last time i used axes alot was wayyy back in proph after i got my first chaos axe (who dosnt love axes at that point lol) but alot has changed sence then and there are plenty of new skills, so i could use some help there seems to be alot of nice ones but idk if there any good or not. Now i know about the eviscerate build and how amazing it is (tho it would be nice if somone could post a full version of it) Im looking for a fun build too that has cool chains or effects idk just post what you got!
Well here some cool skills I have seen on wiki.

-(E) Decapitate - You lose all adrenaline and all Energy. If this attack hits, you deal +5...41 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds. This attack always results in a critical hit.

<that skills looks REALLY good the energy loss is bad but if you run full sig/adren skills i think it would work very nicely, the dmg is outstanding with that skill! You could use it like they used final thrust just use it as the last spike on a chain then rebuild adren and rip out again.>

- (E) Whirling Axe - If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. If it is blocked, Whirling Axe is disabled for 15 seconds.

<that one looks fun too, I know its not that best but what about if you went w/a and used crit eye with FGJ a IAS and a anti block ench? couldnt that deal some sweet numbers?>

- Penetrating Chop/Blow- If this attack hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. This axe attack has 20% armor penetration.

<I know back in the day those were awsome, but lately i heard they are crap and dont work right anymore o.0 care to shed some light?>

- Keen Chop- If it hits, this attack always results in a critical hit.

<that anygood? criting is always nice but i dont think its worth a bar space..>

- Dismember- If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a Deep Wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

<that still good? DW is always nice!>

- Agonizing Chop- When this attack hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If target foe is suffering from a Deep Wound, you interrupt that foe's action.

<Good? Looks like it would go good with Dismember?>

Now what about utilitys? do the sword utilitys work well with axe?
I know FGJ and a IAS (Flail/Frenzy) + Cstance
any pointers?

Well sorry for all the questions but I like to know what im doing before i try it, and whatever you guys cant help me with I will learn trying so its no sweat if you can't help.
I just could use some good axe builds.
Thanks

bungusmaximus · Dec 13, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Triple chop/Dismember/Executioners strike/Watch Yourself/Flail/enraging charge/skillie-of-choice/resurrection signet.

Tweak skills and attributes at will, just wanted to say triple chop is the best PvE axe elite.

Decapitate is bad, eviscerate pawnz it if it is single target damage you want.

thor thunder · Dec 13, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

yeah Triple chop is nice i use it for farming mintors and stuff but i think its too AoE for none farming dont get me wrong its very good just not my style.
why is decapitate bad? +41(thats double what eviscerate does) and a deap wound? yeah its a pain but if your not useing energy skills i dont see how its bad? I will have to try it vs other skills to see dmg ratio before i can believe that (not that you wrong just that i want to see it for my self).

Cebe · Dec 13, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

yeah Triple chop is nice i use it for farming mintors and stuff but i think its too AoE for none farming dont get me wrong its very good just not my style.

Triple Chop is a good skill for normal PvE play. AoE damage is kind of PvE because monsters often conveniently stand in groups. Triple Chop gives you the ability to hit multiple monsters which helps you gain arenaline faster.

iridescentfyre · Dec 13, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

-(E) Decapitate -

Decapitate is a little too debilitating considering it doesn't do that much more than Eviscerate. Its way better to fire off a multi-skill Eviscerate spike than to use Decapitate all by itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

- (E) Whirling Axe -

Whirling Axe is a bad skill made worse because its elite. It sucks your adrenaline dry and doesn't have a very good damage modifier. If Axe DPS is your thing, Cleave is a better option than this. Critical Eye wouldn't work because it would give you a paltry +3% chance to crit with 0 Critical Strikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

- Penetrating Chop/Blow-

As far as I know, they work as they're supposed to but are outclassed by such things as Executioner's Strike. Why penetrate armor when you can ignore it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

- Keen Chop-

Crits are nicer when they trigger on skills that do other stuff too, such as during your Eviscerate spikes. Keen Chop is nothing but an auto-attack that guarantees a crit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

- Dismember-

Deep Wound is awesome. Dismember should be on any bar you aren't already using Eviscerate/Decapitate on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

- Agonizing Chop-

Yup. Its good. Works great for damage compression during a spike. Personally I feel naked without an interrupt as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

utilitys?

IAS is as compulsory for axes as it is for swords. FGJ! is good to have if you've got room in your bar.

thor thunder · Dec 13, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Triple Chop is a good skill for normal PvE play. AoE damage is kind of PvE because monsters often conveniently stand in groups. Triple Chop gives you the ability to hit multiple monsters which helps you gain arenaline faster.

Yes but this isnt WoW where all the mobs run to the warrior.. yeah aoe is NICE i use it plenty, skills like whirlewind attack never leave my bar saddly but i would rather do single target dmg then spam a aoe skill that will hit mabey 2-3 targets for a messly ~20-30 dmg..? so IMO AoE isnt worth an elite space espisaly wit whirlewind and cyclone hanging around.

Decapitate dose alot more dmg then eviscerate its not even a argument. for same adren cost at 16 AM it does a wopping +53 dmg! wile eviscate scratchs +33 the DW durations are the same tho. yeah its only +20 dmg
but for the same amount of adren a decapitate build if used properly it will do more dmg then a evicerate build.

Yeah executioners is a given.. i just like to have 3-4 atk skills like Keen>Pent>Executioners>Decapitate = ~200+ dmg in one chain... yeah eviscerate comes close but if used properly i dont think it would be hard to use Decapitate rather then Eviscerate.
This is the build i came up with for Decapitate-

Rush
Flail
FGJ (req energy but its still useable with good timeing)
Keen Chop
Pent Chop
Executioners
Decaptiate (E)
Lions Comfort

I think that build would do well il have to try it =D
Guys im not saying your wrong, Eviscate is a easyer build that does just about same amount of dmg but im looking for a fun challengeing build! =) tho comments about what is 1337 best is welcome too because its always good to know the basics.

iridescentfyre · Dec 13, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

Yeah executioners is a given.. i just like to have 3-4 atk skills like Keen>Pent>Executioners>Decapitate = ~200+ dmg in one chain... yeah eviscerate comes close but if used properly i dont think it would be hard to use Decapitate rather then Eviscerate.

Are you talking about PvP or PvE? In PvE, do whatever. But in PvP that chain is very bad. You have virtually no chance of killing your target if there's anyone remotely competent on their team.

Btw, Evisc -> Executioner -> Agonizing is somewhere in the vicinity of 300 damage, executes faster, and doesn't shut you down.

thor thunder · Dec 13, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

im talking about PvE lol that explains alot.
yeah in PvP i would use eviscerate i love that skill, but in PvE im looking for somthing fun and deadly that isnt on everyones elses skill bar.

"Btw, Evisc -> Executioner -> Agonizing is somewhere in the vicinity of 300 damage, executes faster, and doesn't shut you down."

~300.... either my math is off or your wayyyyy off.
Eviscerate at 16 AM crits for under 60-70 dmg.. exucutioners is about the same and agonizing is about ~30-50 dmg all together thats pushing MABEY 150-180 dmg?? not 300. my combo can do that on averige.. without nailing huge crits.

+55 dmg-8 adren > +33 dmg-8 adren

iridescentfyre · Dec 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

Eviscerate at 16 AM crits for under 60-70 dmg.. exucutioners is about the same and agonizing is about ~30-50 dmg all together thats pushing MABEY 150-180 dmg?? not 300. my combo can do that on averige.. without nailing huge crits.

Deep Wound is another 100, and 60-70 for Eviscerate and Executioner's is a conservative estimate in my experience. I've had Executioner's in the 90's or more on 60 AL targets, plus its activating the Deep Wound.

A Leprechaun · Dec 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

-(E) Decapitate - You lose all adrenaline and all Energy. If this attack hits, you deal +5...41 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds. This attack always results in a critical hit.

[http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10224755 This is the way i found to use it in PvE]

- (E) Whirling Axe - If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. If it is blocked, Whirling Axe is disabled for 15 seconds.

[The trouble is it drains adrenaline from your other skills, its useable but not favoured]

- Penetrating Chop/Blow- If this attack hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. This axe attack has 20% armor penetration.

[Again, its useable but Executioners Chop kicks its ass]

- Keen Chop- If it hits, this attack always results in a critical hit.

[Its ok but 1) its drains adrenaline from your other adrenaline skills and 2) it doesn't add any armour ignoring damage]

- Dismember- If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a Deep Wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

[Very handy skill, DW is great, although its not entirely needed in PvE]

- Agonizing Chop- When this attack hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If target foe is suffering from a Deep Wound, you interrupt that foe's action.

[Its ok but Executioners Chop is better]

Triple Chop is amazing.

~A Leprechaun~

thor thunder · Dec 13, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Deep Wound is another 100, and 60-70 for Eviscerate and Executioner's is a conservative estimate in my experience. I've had Executioner's in the 90's or more on 60 AL targets, plus its activating the Deep Wound.

LOL
decapitateing inflictes a DW also.. and adding dw at 100 dmg is retarted you dont count DW toward your base dmg... sighs.
Ok so Eviscate hits for 60-70 =) thats great. now my build is identical except that i use decapitate instead of Eviscerate witch means in one chain no matter what i do ~20-30 MORE dmg then you at the cost of lossing full energy.. lossing the adren dont matter because you will have just used your chain so at max you would lose 2 adren per skill but you lose one anyway just for activateing a attack skill so its not even worth worrying about.

I dont know where your getting your math but if were running the same build except mine is one skill different that does ~20+ more dmg then yours then you could never out dmg me at averige its not even a argument.
The only way yours beats mine is over a long time because of the adren loss.

Thanks to everyone else who has posted also im reading what you say and appreciate it.
everyone keep mentioning Excutioners!! I know that skill i ALWAYS use it lol from day one i liked it best thats why i didnt ask about it..
mase dmg > conditions or pent

Pyro maniac · Dec 13, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Thor, it is hard to read your comments but the chain is pretty bad:
Any deep wound combo should need either a fast activation attack skill (agonizing, critical, disrupting) or some kind of degeneration. (look at the sever-gash combination)
Deep Wound itself won't kill a person, even if they are supposed to be at negative health.

And Evis > Decapitate, learn to live with it.

MBP · Dec 13, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Considering you could have spammed eviscerate 3-4 times to every 1 decapitate I'd say eviscerate is a far better skill.

decapitate is fun for gimmicky builds but if you wanna be a efficient dw spiker go eviscerate.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 13, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

I dont know where your getting your math but if were running the same build except mine is one skill different that does ~20+ more dmg then yours then you could never out dmg me at averige its not even a argument.
The only way yours beats mine is over a long time because of the adren loss.

Adren loss over time = less skill use over time = less dps over time. Besides, if a good, clean Evisc spike didn't kill them, chances are "~20+ more dmg" from Decapitate won't either. They're either prot'd/healed or you fail at spiking an opportune target.

Also, you should always add DW as damage when talking about spikes imo. The DW tends to be a major part of what kills people, so leaving it out of the damage calculation is just dumb.

Triple Chop is pretty much king of axe elites in PvE anyway though, so I'm not sure why I bothered typing that.

DarkGanni · Dec 13, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I use Keen chop personally and I have to say it dishes some nice damage on casters with nothing more than 3 adren, good skill imo.

iridescentfyre · Dec 13, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

LOL
decapitateing inflictes a DW also.. and adding dw at 100 dmg is retarted you dont count DW toward your base dmg... sighs.

Oh and here I thought Deep Wound subtracted 100 hp from your target's health. Silly me?

Add up your own numbers however you want, but you can't throw together 3 near-random attack skills + a bad elite and call it a single spike @ X amount of damage because it doesn't happen quickly enough. Your target has loads of time to react before you finish the chain. The combo I mentioned for an example happens much faster due to it a.) being more damage in fewer skills and b.) includes Agonizing Chop, a faster-than-normal attack skill. Besides, the target is usually sitting on their ass due to Shock or Bull's Strike when it happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

everyone keep mentioning Excutioners!! I know that skill i ALWAYS use it lol from day one i liked it best thats why i didnt ask about it..
mase dmg > conditions or pent

Okay, you're using it. Great. The reason it keeps coming up is because it renders redundant the other axe attack skills that focus on doing pure damage. Case in point, Keen Chop and Penetrating Chop.

thor thunder · Dec 14, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Any deep wound combo should need either a
(((fast activation attack skill)))
(agonizing, critical, disrupting) or some kind of degeneration. (look at the sever-gash combination)
Deep Wound itself won't kill a person, even if they are supposed to be at negative health.

i have keen chop.. fastest non elite axe skill in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Oh and here I thought Deep Wound subtracted 100 hp from your target's health. Silly me?

(((when did i ever say it didnt? i like DW i just thought it was funny that your agruing how your SINGLE spike can do more dmg then mine because you added 100dmg from DW and i didnt.)))

Add up your own numbers however you want, but you can't throw together 3 near-random attack skills + a bad elite and call it a single spike @ X amount of damage because it doesn't happen quickly enough. Your target has loads of time to react before you finish the chain. The combo I mentioned for an example happens much faster due to it a.) being more damage in fewer skills and b.) includes Agonizing Chop, a faster-than-normal attack skill. Besides, the target is usually sitting on their ass due to Shock or Bull's Strike when it happens.

Okay, you're using it. Great. The reason it keeps coming up is because it renders redundant the other axe attack skills that focus on doing pure damage. Case in point, Keen Chop and Penetrating Chop.

"3 near-random attack skills + a bad elite and call it a single spike"
LOL
so the eviscerate combo with a dif elite is random now is it?

wait i get it now. so you use the full eviscerate combo THEN use 1-2 atk skills to finish the target off wile they have the DW from eviscerate.. now i see how decapitate is bad because after you apply the DW youll have no adren to finish them off sence the DW wount. why didnt you guys just say that goodness it took me three idiotic posts to figure it out X( sorry im just use to sword. well if your doing it that way why not run it with dismember and cleave? wouldnt that be quicker instead of chargeing up 8 adren to deal the DW??

But yeah i appologize i couldnt see past the bloody 20 extra dmg lol

A Leprechaun · Dec 14, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Ok the way I see it:
-You only need to spike in PvP, in PvE its pointless.
-A non-hammer warrior in PvP, other than AB and maybe RA, not using Frenzy and Rush/Sprint fails.
-Decapitate drains all adrenaline after your spike so no rush to cancel frenzy, but don't worry you can use sprint... oh wait, no you cant you lose all energy too, oh well you will just have to die then.
-Decapitate PvP spike fails when compared to Eviscerate spike.

I couldn't care which does more damage in a single spike, its like saying,
"I'm the best sprinter in the world because I can run 10 meters faster than anyone else, but then I collapse and my legs break."

~A Leprechaun~

Chicken Ftw · Dec 14, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor thunder

wait i get it now. so you use the full eviscerate combo THEN use 1-2 atk skills to finish the target off wile they have the DW from eviscerate.. now i see how decapitate is bad because after you apply the DW youll have no adren to finish them off sence the DW wount. why didnt you guys just say that goodness it took me three idiotic posts to figure it out X( sorry im just use to sword. well if your doing it that way why not run it with dismember and cleave? wouldnt that be quicker instead of chargeing up 8 adren to deal the DW??

I think you understand now, but just to recap...

Evisc/Executioner kill people, Dismember/Cleave usually don't. Generally, harder hitting, less frequent spikes are preferable to lower damage, more frequent ones. Yours wasn't really a spike, you need that DW to hit first, then on the second skill use, it hits, triggers it and deals the damage, more likely to get a kill that way. Typically looks something like this: Shock(or Bulls)->Frenzy->Evisc->Exec->3rd skill if any (Disrupting/Agonizing/Whatever)->Rush.

Leprechaun covered why Decapitate fails nicely imo.

Mr Emu · Dec 14, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

X->X->X->Decapitate doesn't trigger DW but Eviscerate->X does
Therefore the Eviscerate combo can count DW and the Decapitate cannot
Therefore the Evisc combo has a +100 that the Decap does not
In addition to this the Evisc combo is twice as fast as the Decap
Therefore the Evisc has more slots for stuff that is better than Decap already
-The Evisc combo clearly destroys the Decap in terms of everything but damage, and in this category they are very close. In addition, even if the Decap combo did ~500 dmg, you still could not hope to solo kill a worthwhile enemy with it-

P.S.-Keen Chop is not a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fast skill