Curse

martialis · Dec 04, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighthawk329

And what would that be?

I currently use a Kepkhet's Refuge as my one and only monk weapon on my hybrid monk, since it seems pretty well rounded to me.
-Lowers cast time on Aegis with the HCT Protection
-HSR 20% for the heals (since heals are usually fast enough already)
-Enchanting 20% for the prots
-Energy +5 for general energy increase

Making or buying perfect, customised weapons is very time-consuming. Try switching to something like this for a while. If you like that, try a staff with +60 health, or even a shield with health and armour. Search for popular monk weapons, try them out, and you can build a useful collection that way.

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Here's another question derived from the OP question:

Quote:

Is PvE really that important?

Ensign · Dec 04, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

If you're experiencing a long delay when swapping weapons to cast you're doing it wrong. If you queue up the swap while attacking or during the cast of a spell, the swap will have a delay; weapon swaps have a delay when performing actions. However they have no delay when moving or otherwise not performing an action. To swap effectively you need to finish your spell or attack, then break combat (either hit escape or start moving), then swap and cast the next spell. If you do it this way the delay should be virtually nonexistent.

I won't disagree that it's silly that you need to move or esc cancel whenever you want to fast swap between spells, but that's just how the game works.

nighthawk329 · Dec 05, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you're experiencing a long delay when swapping weapons to cast you're doing it wrong. If you queue up the swap while attacking or during the cast of a spell, the swap will have a delay; weapon swaps have a delay when performing actions. However they have no delay when moving or otherwise not performing an action. To swap effectively you need to finish your spell or attack, then break combat (either hit escape or start moving), then swap and cast the next spell. If you do it this way the delay should be virtually nonexistent.

I won't disagree that it's silly that you need to move or esc cancel whenever you want to fast swap between spells, but that's just how the game works.

This is undoubtably the most helpful reply in this thread. You are correct in assuming that when I tried swapping, I queued the swap. It just seems logical and intuitive since it works for skill queuing.

Now I want to try out weapon swapping hehe

I Angra I · Dec 05, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

If you're already used to weapon swapping, you might as well. Unless you're feeling particularly lazy and don't want to, which is okay also, because it's not nearly as critical as it usually is in PvP. Of course there will be some situations in PvE where weapon swapping could potentially save you from a wipe or something also. But obviously it's pretty rare.

Div · Dec 05, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

I personally try and weapon swap for everything I do. Inbetween fights I'll run around in a sword and shield set, In fights I either have my prot staff for preprotting/active protting or my 40/40 healing set, or a 40/20/+30 healing staff I use occasionally. (word of healing is fun when it has the same cast time as rof ). And yes I have had to switch into my highset in pve plenty of times.

HM frostmaw was a good example

<3 PvE monking with you. Probably the most weapon swapping dedicated PvE monk out there

For others people: As most people have stated, you can be lazy in PvE and get away with it, but if you've never weapon swapped before and want to get better at the game, at least try swapping between your normal set and your high set. If you want good practice to be a GvG monk, pick certain zones that you'll take extra seriously and do weapon swaps as if you were in a GvG.

Caged Fury · Dec 05, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I never used to bother with having multiple weapon set or weapon swapping. Having gotten NF, and decent weapons dropping frequently, I started building a collection of weapons for my monk. Multiple weapon set and swapping isn't crucial for PvE, but there are times where it may help. I've been in a few situations where it's been very close to a party wipe (bad calls, mass aggro, split team, etc), and was glad I had a defensive set, and high energy set. I still sometimes forget to swap weapon set, but hey, I'm still getting used to the idea. And PvE is an ideal place to practise.

Yichi · Dec 05, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

<3 PvE monking with you. Probably the most weapon swapping dedicated PvE monk out there

For others people: As most people have stated, you can be lazy in PvE and get away with it, but if you've never weapon swapped before and want to get better at the game, at least try swapping between your normal set and your high set. If you want good practice to be a GvG monk, pick certain zones that you'll take extra seriously and do weapon swaps as if you were in a GvG.

Its good practice I agree, and I think thats part of the reason its becomming more popular is that people are seeing it's effectiveness. While it won't help you be able to judge in a PvP situation such as an E-surge mesmer in GvG, it will help to train your brain to not stay stagnant in a set that can hurt you if something goes wrong, and can help to make the most of your skillbar. Also practicing weaponswapping in PvE is a lot more forgiving than in a PvP situation. You can get away with a bad swap or swapping to a wrong set and not get as punished for it as you could in a PvP match. (getting p-leaked on your high set sucks

)If something would happen to go wrong, if you have effectively swapped beforehand, you should have died in your shield set, leaving you with 15 more energy upon your res when you swap up to a high set to re-gain composure.

So with having the practice to weapon swap in your head, then you'll have a faster reaction to be able to do it in a PvP situation (if thats where a player decides they wanna go) with the least amount of lag and the best results of the potential for your bar.

Granted this isn't the absolute 100% truth that you must weapon swap. You could pick one set to stay in the entire time and be able to get away with it with little to no impact on your team play.

arcady · Dec 05, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

For me its a question of good practice for what?

If I don't need it in PvE, why am I going to bother, if I don't like PvP.

I D E L E T E D I · Dec 05, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

For me its a question of good practice for what?

If I don't need it in PvE, why am I going to bother, if I don't like PvP.

If you monk without weapon swapping you monk with only about 70% effiency like already mentioned. Now in PvE you only really need to monk with 40% effiency to be succesful. I never conentrate in PvE and i play alot of PvE

If you ever plan to play PvP this is a good preparation if your not then using Kephkets or the ScarEater will do just fine.

And tbh your post clearly shows you havent read the thread at all, since this fact has been mentioned more than once.

arcady · Dec 05, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Several thread posts point out the need to practice it, even in PvE, because you will need it in PvP.

I'm making the point above that that for me is a meaningless argument. I not only do not plan to play PvP, I don't like PvP. Practicing for PvP would be like practicing getting smacked upside the head - zero fun, why bother learning how to do it?

In PvE, I don't generally see the benefit. When you will need it is when your energy management is failing in a pinch. That often means a time where the switch is going to cause a cast delay. To the comment that, timed right, you can swap without incurring a delay - I counter that those are the times where you didn't need to swap anyway.

While it can spike up your energy, you have to wonder how often this will be result as opposed to the cast delay that will result from doing this at times when your energy needs a spike.

Better energy management so you don't run out at critical times might be more advisable. There is also the note that the max energy item swapped in might as well have been there to begin with. Only a few places in the game will spike down your energy - you can prep this swapping trick for them. Elsewhere, its not needed.

Other than energy management, the gains for repeated weapon swapping are minimal. Managing your aggro will better address the benefits gained from things like shields, and if your swapping in a sword and planning to every attack with it, you're on the wrong class.

Valeria · Dec 05, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Switching between hammer /sword /axe is importand but everything else...

I rarely swith weapons during a fight. only exceptions are zealous weapons after a fight or +15en /-1 inscriptions. Maybe a bow for luring...
But i think using a caster sword with 20%enchant for one spell and then swithing to another wand for the next spell doesn't make much sense.
having another set that might give you +30en if you really need it is nice but where do you think i should store all my different weapon sets?

Running around as warrior with 75energy (but 0 regeneration) is really nice if you use ursan blessing.

EDIT: oh monk forum... forget everything about melee weapons and bows for luring

Ensign · Dec 05, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Fury

I've been in a few situations where it's been very close to a party wipe (bad calls, mass aggro, split team, etc), and was glad I had a defensive set, and high energy set.

For someone not used to swapping weapons, and doesn't want to invest too much effort into it, those are the sets I would stick to:

A casting set of some sort with universally good modifiers (a +30 HP staff of enchanting, or weapon + focus being the best typically). Basically whatever weapon you would take if you only had one.

A high set (dual +15/-1s) to 'borrow' energy in emergencies.

A shield set with a +5e/+30HP martial weapon for defense.

Instead of sitting in your shield set and swapping to an appropriate casting set for every spell, you can simply sit in your casting set most of the time, only switching into your high set for emergency casts, or into your shield set when you start taking heavy fire. Those two sets are universal tools for any caster class, they're always useful in similar situations and come at virtually no cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

In PvE, I don't generally see the benefit.

There is a significant benefit to carrying and using a high set if your energy ever hits 0 in PvE. There is a significant benefit to carrying and using a shield set if you ever take damage in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

That often means a time where the switch is going to cause a cast delay. To the comment that, timed right, you can swap without incurring a delay - I counter that those are the times where you didn't need to swap anyway.

That doesn't make any sense. You can always swap without incurring a delay, even when chain casting, if you are practiced at escape or move canceling within the casting rhythm.

But that is only true for advanced weapon swapping. If you are simply making use of a high set when your energy is failing, it is worth switching to even with a casting delay. You are at 0 and couldn't cast either way, so while it sucks if it takes another half second to swap, you are still getting energy to make an essential cast more quickly than if you had sat on your casting set and waited for natural regeneration. Even moreso if you need multiple casts in your high set to stabilize. The shield set is used the same way. You pull it out when you are getting blasted and want to run away; it's a good reflex to train yourself to swap to a shield set when running. There's no delay when the queued action is moving, and you get a health and armor buff for no cost.

The swapping delay only becomes significant when you are trying to switch between multiple casting sets when chain casting; I agree that learning the timing to pull that off is pretty tricky, takes a lot of practice, and probably isn't worth it in PvE if you don't play a particular character heavily. For a vast majority of Monks, swapping off a shield to a prot staff for Shield of Absorption, then to the 40/40 Heal set for Dwayna's Kiss, then back to the staff for a Dismiss Condition, then back to a shield, or equivalent, is an awful lot of micro for a small benefit. They would be better off sitting on a staff and making sure they use the right spells on the right people at the right time, as they'll get much better much more quickly that way. Microing your weapons for each cast is an advanced technique for people looking to squeeze even more effectiveness out of their character, after the basics of playing a Monk are second nature.

But that is distinct from making use of a high set, and a shield set in the appropriate emergencies. Neither of those take much micro, and have potentially huge benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

There is also the note that the max energy item swapped in might as well have been there to begin with.

You would have to be a flaming moron to sit on dual 15/-1s all the time. Your energy is going to be toasted even more quickly than if you had sat on your staff the whole time. They're useful for emergency casting, for 'borrowing' energy with interest (paid in lost regeneration) when you absolutely need it. That's the extent of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Other than energy management, the gains for repeated weapon swapping are minimal.

Other than energy management and defense as needed - again, while sitting in a shield all the time can be a lot of work, swapping into a shield when you do start taking hits is not, and pays off 90% as well - you're right, the benefits of repeated weapon swapping are minimal. For an intermediate level Monk, a 3 set setup should be ideal, with one main set and two emergency sets. Those two are where 80% of the benefits of weapon swapping are realized, for only a fraction of the effort. Drop a bow in your 4th slot, for pulling, and worry about using your skills appropriately before thinking about squeezing out a bit more efficiency.

Sakura Az · Dec 06, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

i weapon swap for the 20% enchanting when i caste aegis, that extra 2 seconds is really helpful, other than that i run a +30sword +5e, and a +30 shield, +30 sword +5e +30offhand, and then a +15e +20%ecnchant staff for my swaps.

i normaly stay in the sword and shield set, swap to sword and offhand when i need energy, then swap to the staff to cast aegis and hope i get the recharge bonus for it too^^.

my thoughts are that weapon swaps are helpful, but not necisary to play the game.

Age · Dec 07, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valeria

Switching between hammer /sword /axe is importand but everything else...

I rarely swith weapons during a fight. only exceptions are zealous weapons after a fight or +15en /-1 inscriptions. Maybe a bow for luring...
But i think using a caster sword with 20%enchant for one spell and then swithing to another wand for the next spell doesn't make much sense.
having another set that might give you +30en if you really need it is nice but where do you think i should store all my different weapon sets?

Running around as warrior with 75energy (but 0 regeneration) is really nice if you use ursan blessing.

EDIT: oh monk forum... forget everything about melee weapons and bows for luring

I was wondering about that sword and axe are ok not hammer.

I always keep one slot free no weapon on it.

boarderx · Dec 07, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

i only worry about energy in high end areas in PVE. I do use all my weapon set though in PVE (not always my high energy set though)

for PVE i usually have 2 sets with high armor and i switch to the one that is more applicable depending on the incoming mob. If my energy gets a lil on the low side then i switch to my offand that gives me at least 12 more energy, if things get real nasty then i have a high energy set for emergencies, kinda similar to PVP but a lil different

Melody Cross · Dec 08, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I won't disagree that it's silly that you need to move or esc cancel whenever you want to fast swap between spells, but that's just how the game works.

*Prays for GW2 fix*

Weaponswapping is important if you PvP. Even if you are PvEing at the time, its nice to swap to get the extra practice and keep your reflexes up. But if you ONLY PvE, then you only really need an armor/HP and emergency set, as has been posted above.

but still, i suggest to any monk that wants to improve their game, become more efficient or just add challenge to game play, learn to weaponswap and keep them around.

When i play hybrid is when I usually see the most pve swapping. i typically run 4 sets

1 40/40 wand/offhand healing set
2 20% enchant spear and HSR prot offhand
3 armor set (axe with + AL and a shield with +30 HP)
4 energy set +15/-1 wand and offhand with HSR 10% for all spells (DF; I always have the req 9 in DF so there's no surprises if i swap down to it while running an SoD or HBoon build)
*5*a longbow for pulls when I'm alone (or

when my RL team decides to overthink something

yes, I'll leeroy you if you want to turn GW into a debate team. me. The dang MONK

).

Its not the best set on the planet, but its what my monk has amassed from greens and copious chest running. Hard Mode H/Hing can make for some hairy situations, and these weps have served me well for most of them. With RL people, its a lot easier to HM this game though, so usually, I'm in my 20%enchant/HSR Prot set to prot the tank and chill out.

GGs

Biostem · Dec 08, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

The main thing I use it for is if I have a zealous or vampiric weapon; when not in combat, I switch weapons to avoid the degen.

The Meth · Dec 08, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

For a PvE monk the only mod that really makes any real difference is +20% enchant, have a weapon with that and any other gain from swapping will be fairly marginal.

The max number of sets I would ever use for PvE is two, one +5e + 20% enchant martial weapon with a +30 health +10 vs slashing shield (almost all wars/dervs/sins use slashing, its probably the most common damage type in pve) along with an offhand on switch with HCT/HSR mods. If you are ever in a fight where you actually need that .01% efficiency that bringing 4 weapon swaps and 6 different sets of shields with different +10 vs x mods then you are not playing a good team build and should fix that problem instead.

Solus Spartan · Dec 08, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Multi-weapons are not needed. Just stick to your staff, unless you plan on staffing your oppentents to death. And ofcourse your 55monk set.