Curse

Coloneh · Jan 17, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Titan

You aren't cristicsing, you are just posting random crap, and just cause harassment.

You've yet to provide 1 bit of helpful information in this entire thread.

read my first post. then read what your skills do. now go look at other skills, they are better.

Tyla · Jan 17, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

read my first post. then read what your skills do. now go look at other skills, they are better.

Quoted. For. Truth.

The Titan · Jan 17, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

No matter. GFS will still hit normally if you are bereft of enchants, with normal bonus damage -----> viable lead attack.

b/o Jagged Strike. Bleeding (crap degen) + no bonus damage = Teh Fail.

Oh and on Moebius-Blossom being energy intensive: [skill]critical strike[/skill]

My bad then, I've been reading the info of the skill wrong, but 10 energy to me isn't really much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

i give it a 2
sorry

unsuspecting sucks
2 dual attacks?
and no rez

meh

You've just told me my skills suck, and that's about it, how is the helpful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

No...there isn't threads exactly like this...

Unsuspecting is bad, costs 10 energy, EXTREMELY conditional.
Wild strike is ftw.
Death Blossom is ftw.
TF is ftw.
Locust's Fury sucks.
Critical Agility is ftw.
Shadow Refuge is meh.
Critical Eye is meh.

It's PvE...not much of an accomplishment, and 3 healers = wtf?

Locusts Fury is bad, get rid of it for moebius strike.

Yeah, and i can do 5 billion damage in 0.000000000001 seconds...
Auto-attacking for 200 damage isn't possible unless you're versus REALLY weak enemies.
And under 2-3 seconds? wth...? It isn't a spike build...

On a scale of 1 to 10, i would say 0...the "200 damage in 2-3 secs" thing made me go funny.

Lots of nice and helpful advice here, 3 Healers is more to the fact to just keep me up while I get more money/loot, Gotten rid of Locusts fury for Moebius, As for the auto attack damage, give it a try, then call me a lier.

DDL · Jan 17, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

There's nothing wrong with 3 prot/healers, per se: if you can up your own damage dealing to compensate, the end result it the same.

It's fine for PvE solo H/H play, for example. It does, however, encourage "lazy play", so you're not learning an awful lot about how to keep yourself alive...by yourself. Which is useful stuff to learn, given that if you ever want to go pugging, you're unlikely to have more than two healers, and they may not prioritise you, or even pay you much attention. Learning to selfheal effectively is non-trivial, but extremely useful.

There's also nothing wrong with two duals, whatever coloneh says. Dual attacks are, after all, the most powerful attacks assassins have: as long as you can fire them off often enough you're doing fine. Possibly this is the point to which coloneh is objecting.

Moebius is a great skill for letting you loop duals, and while Moebius-DB is the best loop combo for overall damage, in things like hardmode the addition of twisting fangs into the loop REALLY helps get those tougher targets down faster (everyone loves deepwound). As soon as you're at the dual stage you can indefinitely loop DB and moebius as long as you have energy. If energy is a problem and deepwound isn't essential, critical strike is a fantastic dual for e-management.
You can solo NM shiro with ease using the DB-Moebius-CS etc combo, as long as you have something like wild blow for battle scars removal. Tedious, for sure, but not difficult.

The other classical way of chaining duals is to exploit the offhands that don't need leads: golden phoenix, falling spider etc. If you can score a hit with GPS, and then HotO for a KD, you can go straight back to an offhand (falling spider) and then another dual (say, blades of steel, since you'll have four recharging dagger attacks by that point). So O-D-O-D. Combine this with a rechargeallskills elite like assassin's promise (or moebius again

) and away you go!

Coloneh · Jan 17, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Titan

You've just told me my skills suck, and that's about it, how is the helpful?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and hoped you could figure it out. I also thought when others explained it you could figure it out.
guess not.

unsuspecting strike: costs 10 energy for extremely conditional damage. so conditional, that you might get to use it on one foe per mob.

Wild Strike: good job picking this one. maybe a lucky guess...

Death Blossom: also good job, but where is your skills to spam this? you dont have mobius, so you cant blossom every 2 seconds, and you dont have a fast chain so you cant really spam it at all.

Twisting fangs: not completely horrid, but it has a long recharge. really not suitable for PvE without Assassin's promise. foes should be dropping in way less than 15 seconds. (and carrying 1 skills just to deal with bosses it a terrible idea, so dont say that)

Locust's fury: uhm, why? what the hell is the point of this? are you auto attacking? why? do your realize the dagger max damage is 7-17? use attack skills, thats the entire point of the class. Assassins were built to spam attack skills non-stop. get a better elite

Critical Agility: good job

Shadow Refuge: meh, good plan bringing a self heal. shadow refuge isnt exactly great though.

Critical Eye: im a big fan of this skill, it can return alot of energy with critical agility.

what your missing:

Rez: fine to not take it with h/h, but with parties of humans it is unacceptable to not bring a resurrection, unless your a monk. are you a monk?

Critical Defenses: amazing skill. keeps you alive. pairs nicely with critical agility

lead attack: Golden Fox Strike and Sneak Attack are good choices. you could also use something like golden phoenix strike to skip it

elite skill: locust's is terrible. try mobius strike, Shattering Assault, assassin's promise, or even flashing blades, just not locusts.

get it now?

DDL · Jan 17, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Coloneh, to be fair: you could rephrase all of that more politely. Well, ok: both of you guys could. Play nice, etc etc.

Anyway, since he's taking 3 healers, it's fairly safe to assume H/H play. It's pretty much the de rigeur GW playstyle now (whether this is a good or bad thing is debatable). If you H/H and call targets appropriately, you can get all your muppets to focus on one poor monster while you either deal with the same or attack another: either way, you get a lot more effective spam out of unsuspecting than you might think. H/H parties tend to be fairly poor at mob-wide degen/damage, so you're quite likely to encounter 90+% health targets one after another. With the IAS from critical agility and the doublestrikes from locusts, AND zealous daggers, I don't think the 10e req is a big problem here.

Still, don't get me wrong: you're certainly giving good advice, just..a bit too dismissively.

Titan: everything coloneh says about locust's is..basically true. It's not worth the elite slot, without caveats.

If you want this build to work effectively, you need to take advantage of the ludicrous effective IAS you'll be getting, which means:

either go A/E and take a conjure (fire, lightning etc) and use the appropriate elemental damage daggers

or get a curses necro hero with [skill]Mark of Pain[/skill] and [skill]Barbs[/skill].

or..both.

Honestly, since you've clearly got heroes, I would strongly recommend the necro: with the amount of hits you'll be doing, even the AOE scatter will be too slow to offset the damage you'll do via Mark of pain. I love playing a curses necro, and Barbs + MoP with a rapid attacker is...beautiful (here you WOULD need to drop unsuspecting, though: AOE damage on this scale will leave very few 90+% health enemies).

The other thing to consider is going /Mo and taking either [skill]Vigorous Spirit[/skill] which'll be basically like a far more reliable way of perfection for in-battle healing, or [skill]Restful Breeze[/skill], which is about as good as shadow refuge even with no investment in the relevant attribute: shadow refuge is not a good in-battle heal, even with the bonus heal for attacking: it's more of a "oops I done screwed up: tiem to runz" heal, and for that purpose restful breeze is better.

Bobby2 · Jan 18, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

or /D for Mystic Regen DUH

ending in

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/...Blossom_Farmer

as we all eventually do.The synergy between all of these skills is extremely juicy - so if you're going to change anything you'd better have a damn good reason. As far as I know above build > all others.

fireflyry · Jan 18, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Titan

And the suggestion for a replacement move is?

I replaced it with Jagged at the second.

Yeah Jagged is ok but personally I've found GFS more useful.

Unblockable < Bleeding imo.

Unsuspecting Strike is only good for pure spiking which is a waste of time in PvE, you just don't need it or it's conditions and tbh it's one of the worst leads in the game but some can't resist the "OMG BIG DAMAGE11!!11" bait.

Gambit Shinobi · Jan 18, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

unsuspecting strike has a recharge of 2 seconds...what are you on about? i think you mean it has a high energy cost

Yes, I meant high energy. I haven't used Unsuspecting since I was a newbie Sin as I've alluded to in my first post. And as others have said, it's not useful for PvE due to the fact mobs usually die fast enough already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

@ Jagged

Answer: you

Try Golden Fox Strike. If you're hell-bent on using LF you might as well take advantage of it as much as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

No matter. GFS will still hit normally if you are bereft of enchants, with normal bonus damage -----> viable lead attack.

b/o Jagged Strike. Bleeding (crap degen) + no bonus damage = Teh Fail.

Oh and on Moebius-Blossom being energy intensive: [skill]critical strike[/skill]

While Jagged Strike's bleeding effect isn't as uber as Burning, -3 degen (-6 health/second) for 17-21 seconds is still good, especially on a high AL enemy/boss... with fast recharge, cheap energy cost, all the while satisfying the Lead Attack starter chain. I also love the fact that if I kill mobs too quickly for Moebius spam, Jagged is ready to be used again immediately.

And ya, I also use Golden Fox Strike and Sneak Attack from time to time. However, Jagged is still my favorite Lead.

I Phoenix I · Jan 18, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Wait wait wait...

You have 3 Monks...

...and 2 of them are HEROES!?!?!?!

Waste much?

Bobby2 · Jan 18, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambit Shinobi

While Jagged Strike's bleeding effect isn't as uber as Burning, -3 degen (-6 health/second) for 17-21 seconds is still good, especially on a high AL enemy/boss... with fast recharge, cheap energy cost, all the while satisfying the Lead Attack starter chain. I also love the fact that if I kill mobs too quickly for Moebius spam, Jagged is ready to be used again immediately.

And ya, I also use Golden Fox Strike and Sneak Attack from time to time. However, Jagged is still my favorite Lead.

Sneak Attack is a real contender. But with all due respect I think you're WAY off on Jagged.

- Faster recharge: true. But in practice the difference between 2s (Jagged) and 4s (GFS) is irrelevant...
- Since you don't want to be spamming Jagged. Imagine, if you will, a situation where you could only use your lead attack reliably. Not too hard since this is basically any enemy with Blocks up.

Spamming Bleeding repeatedly: useless. After the first hit, it's like paying 5e for an auto-attack.
Spamming unconditional bonus damage: still not good but better.

Why you think AL makes a difference (what else is the point of BONUS damage) eludes me. You'll need to plea more convincing, I'm afraid.

Master of Sins · Jan 18, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

OK, so overall there right, this build could be better. For him it works, it may not be the best, but it gets the job done. Basically Unsuspecting Str. is the BEST lead in the game- with one problem... requirements. If you could assume every target you faced had above 90% health, not to mention energy consumption that comes from spamming it, this is why it doesn't par with other leads. Secondly, if your looking for spam damage why bring twisting fangs? 15 second recharge and 10 energy, just drop twisting fangs and bring golden fang str.- a second offhand will allow you to combo constantly, since each attack type L,OF,D takes only 2 seconds to recharge in your build. But even if you do change the build, Mobius spammer is still going to out dps you and mob better, epsecially if they run vamp and conjure x- in addition if your A/N or you have a hero with a N subclass why not bring Mark of Pain.. meh guess my opinion is pretty much the same, just not as critical. Although if your sin tanking this would work quite well if your dropped your combo and just threw in a conjure x and augury for deep wound...