Curse

Bobby2 · Jan 19, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Hi, I'm relatively new to the Paragon, but I think it's awesome so far (Unremovable buffs, good nrg management, still decent DPS). Reading through the threads here I found many people complaining about (yet still using) Agressive Refrain as a way to generate Adren. It soon became painfully clear Dunkoro has a lot of problems with that. I wanted my Elite to be Focused Anger, and went P/W to take maximum advantage of that. Stumbled onto Fenzy in the process. Though more energy intensive, it provides an even faster way of gaining Adren and since the Para is ranged, yet still has a bucket of AL, the damage penalty doesn't seem to matter much. I've grown quite comfortable with it, yet I never see Frenzy in other people's builds. What am I missing here?

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

The problem with frenzy is you'll need a cancel stance, so you'll need 2 slots for an IAS, and you'll need to use it every 8 seconds. I'd stick to using aggressive refrain. Your monks really shouldn't have any energy issues with it, unless your hero is running blessed light.

King's Spectre · Jan 19, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

I've run a frenzy build for vanquishing ever since the PvE skills came out. You don't mess up your monks and you gain adr faster with it. It's very rare that anything actually attacks a paragon, you just have to be fast on your feet and watch out for AOE spikes.

My frenzy cancel stance is called "run away! run away!"

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

I've run a frenzy build for vanquishing ever since the PvE skills came out. You don't mess up your monks and you gain adr faster with it. It's very rare that anything actually attacks a paragon, you just have to be fast on your feet and watch out for AOE spikes.

My frenzy cancel stance is called "run away! run away!"

If you're running save yourselves (which I'm sure you are because almost every pve paragon does) the AI will be more likely to attack you, seeing as you'll have 100 less armor then everybody else. In that case taking double damage isn't going to help you.

Running away is a bad tactic. Instead of attacking and supporting your party, you'll be running back because your IAS makes you take double damage.

zling · Jan 19, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

actually Running Away or Kiting in professional language isnt all that bad...
every half decent PvPer knows that...
as for Frenzy on a Paragorn, can be done although Aggressive Refain is still so much better...
also, if you're just using party buffers you can use Flurry as the dmg reduction wont matter just adrenaline gain.

Pyro maniac · Jan 19, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

actually Running Away or Kiting in professional language isnt all that bad...
every half decent PvPer knows that...

every decent player also knows that turning your back will make melee attacks auto-crit. which isn't usefull while taking double damage from a mob which is 5-6 levels above you and has a 33% speed boost.

kobey · Jan 19, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I have heard of monks, ele, mesmer, necro kiting, but haven heard of a paragon kiting :P

frenzy sounds ok if you use it in Normal Mode, but not really feasible in HM. You probably get spiked down in 3 secs with ur monks not having a chance to do anything once you cast "save youselves"

Bobby2 · Jan 19, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

To all of you: thanks, keep 'em coming.

Dunkoro runs Prot atm so even when Frenzying I feel kinda well taken care of. It's true that its mod will make me more vulnerable but it's not like Cracked Armour is such a boon huh?

And Frenzy offers 33% as opposed to AR's 25%.

Flurry seems nice. I attack only for Adren building so the dmg penalty shouldn't be a problem. More taxing on nrg tho. Hell I even ran Soldier's Fury-WY! at some point but I decided Focused Anger was too sexeh to leave out.

You guys are helping. Plz continue.

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

actually Running Away or Kiting in professional language isnt all that bad...
every half decent PvPer knows that...
as for Frenzy on a Paragorn, can be done although Aggressive Refain is still so much better...
also, if you're just using party buffers you can use Flurry as the dmg reduction wont matter just adrenaline gain.

I'm well aware that people kite and run. But when you have to run because you were too ignorant to bring a cancel stance, you're doing something wrong. Frenzy needs a cancel stance, simple as that.

Anyways, I wouldn't go with flurry. Most of the paragons damage comes from its base attack, and you'll be doing 25% less damage with your base attack. If you really want to run frenzy, bring a cancel stance, or at least have have Dunkoro use prot spirit on you.

Tab · Jan 19, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

There's no reason to not use Aggressive Refrain. A para without shouts is a waste, and with shouts its perma IAS.

Bobby2 · Jan 20, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

And perma Cracked Armour/ continous nrg drain on poor Dunkoro. Prot Spirit? Always

Look it's not the Cracked Armour in itself that bugs me, or I wouldn't have suggested something like Frenzy. It's just that I'd never run a team without condi removal, and Heroes can be really stupid about these sorts of things.

Kyp Jade · Jan 20, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

putting draw on the mesmer you should be taking solves all your energy issues

King's Spectre · Jan 21, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If you're running save yourselves (which I'm sure you are because almost every pve paragon does) the AI will be more likely to attack you, seeing as you'll have 100 less armor then everybody else. In that case taking double damage isn't going to help you.

Running away is a bad tactic. Instead of attacking and supporting your party, you'll be running back because your IAS makes you take double damage.

After vanquishing and getting guardian in Elona and Cantha with SY! (and frenzy

), I didn't notice any change in agro using SY. They still went after the monks and other casters as usual. I don't know if that's because they've pretty much picked their targets before the first SY! goes up or if they're just looking at base armor.

The running was mostly joking. You have to me smart enough to not frenzy on the middle of a sandstorm or move out of it ASAP if you are, but catching agro from warriors and rangers is very rare.

blue.rellik · Jan 21, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

After vanquishing and getting guardian in Elona and Cantha with SY! (and frenzy

), I didn't notice any change in agro using SY. They still went after the monks and other casters as usual. I don't know if that's because they've pretty much picked their targets before the first SY! goes up or if they're just looking at base armor.

The running was mostly joking. You have to me smart enough to not frenzy on the middle of a sandstorm or move out of it ASAP if you are, but catching agro from warriors and rangers is very rare.

Then it's a good thing they're going for your squishes (who are not squishes with SY)

Lykan · Jan 21, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

argh brain freeze !!!!

Arkantos · Jan 21, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Why not [skill]flail[/skill] most paras just stand there spamming anyway

Because you'll have to use it every 4 hits, which will gimp your other adrenaline skills.

Lykan · Jan 21, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

ohh duh... strength.. nvm me lol, my brain took a day off today

Performance Pudding · Jan 21, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

using flail barely effects it. well imo atleast. isnt it like half a "pip" to the other skills which is gona recharge right away since a spear is probably already in the air as u use it so i think flail is the best not only for ias but for no need of a cancel stance. sry if thats already been said

Racthoh · Jan 21, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

And perma Cracked Armour/ continous nrg drain on poor Dunkoro. Prot Spirit? Always

Look it's not the Cracked Armour in itself that bugs me, or I wouldn't have suggested something like Frenzy. It's just that I'd never run a team without condi removal, and Heroes can be really stupid about these sorts of things.

Don't run monk heroes, use your hero slots for a more specialized role. I can think of no reason to run a monk hero unless every other slot of the party is full and we absolutely have to run the monks as heroes. Even when I run monk heroes I won't give them condition removal unless I am expecting a lot of blind/daze simply because they will blow all of their energy removing degen conditions instead of moving the red bars up or protting.

If you want to run monk heroes, use one slot on your bar for Purifying Finale instead of two slots for Frenzy + cancel stance. Even at a 0 spec it lasts for 10 seconds.