Curse

Stormlord Alex · Jan 30, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I know it's pretty hypocritical of me to say it, but Pyro is being over-zealous in his DSlash luvin'.

In actual truth, it isn't really correct to say that hammers are inferior to Axe/Sword in PvE. They've all got a specific speciality.

Essentially, it comes down to this:
Sword - godmode DSlash. Makes party really tough, and can knock-lock a single target ad infinitum. Huge single-target dps with no decent AoE potential.

Axe - Kills mobs. Great for tearing through groups, spamming the AoE attacks availabe to you. If mobs are big, can keep up "SY!" fairly well. Much better damage potential than sword.

Hammer - group knock-lock. Earthshaker is key, a hammer guy can keep several targets knocked down very well. Again, with AoE attacks can keep up "SY!" a fair bit of groups are big enough.

Now the thing to realise is that the sword's greatest strength - perma-SY! - becomes totally moot when you add a Paragon to the party. There, the single-target DPS loses out to the potential AoE devestation/disruption available to Axe and Hammer. An Earthshaker guy is a much stronger option with an Invincigon in the group.

Now, rellik and Pyro can drop it, danke.

Pyro maniac · Jan 30, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

as people already claimed in other threads: you can finish the game with an empty skill bar. Won't say hammer bar is bad, however why wouldn't you run the best bars available.

Quote:

Man I don't know about you but I would get bored of running DSlash/3Chop everywhere

get bored of PvE in general

But I certainly agree, if you feel like doing something else. Go ahead run a hammer bar, a dagger combo on your warrior, warriors endurance + Hammer. You'll rampage through the game anyway

oh edit:

Quote:

Now the thing to realise is that the sword's greatest strength - perma-SY! - becomes totally moot when you add a Paragon to the party. There, the single-target DPS loses out to the potential AoE devestation/disruption available to Axe and Hammer. An Earthshaker guy is a much stronger option with an Invincigon in the group.

I agree, I said that a few posts before. Just don't do anything but H/H, but if you have a human paragon you'll may want to run earthshaker

Scary Raebbit · Jan 30, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

In PvE?
Physical-heavy builds like yellow-way are well-suited for an Earth Shaker guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

XD
for hammer
Devastating
Crushing Blow
Fierce Blow
Heavy Blow
For great justice
Enraging charge
rez
works fine in pve and well in pvp even without an ias

Quote:

Originally Posted by fang273

I'm going to be pve'ing and pvp'ing, so a few builds to mess around with would be nice.

Bull's Strike:
Additional Disruption.
High damage (crits are fun on hammer).
Can keep a character on the ground for a long time if they don't get Guardian or Aura Stab/Balanced Stance (Bull's, Dev, Heavy).
Can keep pressure off of your monk by Bull's Strike on a Warrior pressuring.
Just a lot of pressure.

But we're in Campfire, so I'll just shut up now.

fang273 · Jan 30, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Just wanted to say that I know hammer isn't huge dps, and isn't always the best option. But after playing Dslash/Triple Chop for a while, I feel like using a hammer.
Thanks for all of the build ideas, guys.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 30, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

- Sword: Conditions, Constant dmg and DPS.
- Axe: Random dmg, High Crit and DPS
- Hammer: Can kd, Really huge spike dmg.

For Sword: You can pressure off and degen down the foe while using stances to protect yourself. Pressure here mean waste foe's energy/Degen.

For Axe: High DPS, High Crit, can be used to spike more often. Can be used to kill multiple targets fast!

For hammer: Have KD and really high crit dmg. Can be used to shutdown, interupt and kill hard target that axe/sword never can do (kill prot monks, teleport sins and such.) Hammer does not spike fast but they do spike hard.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 30, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I dont usually use bulls strike since most people I run up against in RA are either not moving or waiting for bulls strike to go off. or watch and time it....might just me being an idiot but thats my experience.

Also i never have any problems once i hit with enraging and FGJ so i guess it all depends.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jan 30, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Bring Withering Aura with your hammer...

heh heh

If what I've read on wiki is true, then you're heavy blow will NEVER MISS unless you get your enchantment removed in mid swing...

That's gold... Auspicious blow, etc. are hot and Weakness + Hammer = yowza...

yesitsrob · Jan 30, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Earthshaker is actually pretty decent when it comes to PVE and is very much worth powering with a decent adrenaline engine with the likes of FGJ, Enraging Charge and whatever.

Obviously it doesn't give you the same adrenaline love the D-Slash does but it's a very solid alternative if you feel like a change. Or if someone is filling in as the godmode warrior, you can play the exploit the bad AI warrior, yay!

Turtle222 · Jan 31, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Earthshaker, Whirlwind, Crude swing is great in pve

if you want to have some fun too as a utility person, and evade the melee comin at you, add in belly smash, i had tons of fun blinding everyone

Scary Raebbit · Jan 31, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I dont usually use bulls strike since most people I run up against in RA are either not moving or waiting for bulls strike to go off. or watch and time it....might just me being an idiot but thats my experience.

Also i never have any problems once i hit with enraging and FGJ so i guess it all depends.

Then you're not really using Bull's Strike right...
I don't think most people in RA are smart enough to RoF when they see Bull's Strike animation.
Also don't be stupid about it and go straight for the monk who just cast Guardian.
You hit it when you realize that the person doesn't want to tank your damage. Means you have to judge what the person is going to do then predict and hopefully you watched his kiting habits enough.
Harder with a hammer, because if they stop, you can't just Frenzy and go. Have to have Flail ready and it is a lot more dependent on you predicting when they are going to move, otherwise it will be harder chasing them 33% slower unless you Bull's Strike at the right time or bounce off to a close target, or use Rush which means you have to wait for another hit to start your chain.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 31, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I don't go for monks who cast guardian.....I really wanna know where you got that I did that. I just have bad luck with it whenever I am chasing dwn a kiter to use it and they always seem to stop to cast something right as I am about to hit with it.
I just get bad luck with kiters sometimes they see a warrior coming and haul ass out of the way.

Scary Raebbit · Jan 31, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I don't go for monks who cast guardian.....I really wanna know where you got that I did that. I just have bad luck with it whenever I am chasing dwn a kiter to use it and they always seem to stop to cast something right as I am about to hit with it.
I just get bad luck with kiters sometimes they see a warrior coming and haul ass out of the way.

You don't necessarily chase kiters, unless every person on the team is pre-kiting AND not casting, which they are not going to be, unless it's some stupid caster spike, but they still can't kite too far away or else they will not be in time for the spike/heal.
You pick targets that have Hard Res (if any), are in great position from your viewpoint, are soft, just ressed, DP'd, are key characters, or don't have prot on them that will reduce your damage output. You don't go looking for a person who is kiting and think "I am going to Bull's Strike him since he is kiting". You bring the damage to an opportune target and force them to kite, which you then take advantage of and knock them down. You have to know what the enemy is going to do in the face of pressure though. It doesn't help if your though process is if you hit them once, they will start to kite and then you Bull's Strike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidget

Bull's by prediction ("I think they're going to move") rather than reaction ("They're already moving") and you'll start to KD a lot more with practice.

Bull's Strike will draw some attention, and you can either unload on that target or unload on another target, usually the latter. Switch when prot goes on.
That, or you know how to position yourself so you can catch a character out of a cast/beginning to run.
Other ways can work. You can chase a target if it brings you to another opportune target for mass bouncing. Knowing the range of your weapon and hitting Bull's Strike when you enter that range. Or get a target that is moving past you.

I still can't Bull's someone chasing me though, and it is pretty situational and hard. Still a lot of things to learn.

Tyla · Jan 31, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You DO realize that people are allowed to use weapons other than swords?

Meh, warrior is godmode enough! Even with any weapon!

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 31, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

ill try that though I usually stick in RA when using warrior, never really tried anything higher than that with warrior I generally do other classes in HA more often

and I dont GvG ever

JDRyder · Feb 01, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

strength 12+1
hammer 12+1+1

[skill]earth shaker[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]mighty blow[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]bull's strike[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill] res sig for pvp hard rez for pve

for pve you can take out bulls strike for counter blow, backbraker and devastating hammer also works for the elite

1 thing i like to do in pvp is [skill]backbreaker[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]mighty blow[/skill][skill]body blow[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Ajantis · Feb 01, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

[skill]earth shaker[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]yeti smash[/skill][skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill]

hammer mastery: 12+1+1
strength: 12+1

sentinels + stonefist, have splinter weapon on a hero and watch the yellow numbers with yeti+splinter

yesitsrob · Feb 01, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I don't go for monks who cast guardian.....I really wanna know where you got that I did that. I just have bad luck with it whenever I am chasing dwn a kiter to use it and they always seem to stop to cast something right as I am about to hit with it.
I just get bad luck with kiters sometimes they see a warrior coming and haul ass out of the way.

When someone not bad sees a warrior chasing them they will often stop if they expect a bull's strike, don't be predictable with them, don't queue it up in hope that they will keep moving because quite often they won't. Use the oppertunity of them baiting it to smash their face a bit, it's worth picking up the kiting patterns of people and you'll hit with a lot more bull's strike. Obviously they won't all hit but you can definitely increase your success rate.

Trax Reborn · Feb 03, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

no love for forceful blow? i guess nobody likes very high damage hammer builds.

Scary Raebbit · Feb 03, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax Reborn

no love for forceful blow? i guess nobody likes very high damage hammer builds.

Hammer builds get their power from disruption caused by KD. And auto-attacks.
Their adrenaline needs to be dedicated for that.
Also, big numbers draw prot. Since they aren't on their ass, they can just kite away till you Heavy Blow, and you can't Rush otherwise you'd have to hit them two times.
Also you can't Flail until your almost done.