Curse

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The damage from Shock is actually relevant? I never knew that...

Gale > Shock. Only reason why melee use Shock is because of the 5e cost (see year 2005 gale axe), and Gale got bumped up.

Wouldn't the chance to fail play a part?

LightningHell · Jan 29, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Wouldn't the chance to fail play a part?

Not really. It hardly hurts any bars to put Air at 5. Even if it did matter, the ranged KD is too strong an effect to lose.

If it did matter that much, people wouldn't have run gale wars in the first place.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 30, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Shock:
- Pros:
1. It's a skill not a spell so such thing like spell breaker, Shadow form will not prevent the kd.
2. Only 5e so it can be used on Warrior since War themself is melee
3. Faster to cast, deal dmg/armor penalty
4. Don't need any point for an ensure kd.
- Cons:
1. It's Melee, so it can only be used by melee else won't be effective (though I find it's pretty useful for Shock + After Shock + Shockwave ele - Used to randomway with it and won hall.)
2. It's a skill so there is no way to make it cast faster / recharge (with either spells or 40/40 set.)
3. 5sec recharge longer (Spam less)

Gale:
You can tell from the pro/con above

Depend on situation, you use dif
- GvG: Gale + Glyph of Energy is uber.
- Any PvP: War/Sin/Derv with shock is uber for an ensure kd (unless they run anti kd spells/skills)
- Want a distance kd/interupt. Gale is your choice.

LightningHell · Jan 30, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

- GvG: Gale + Glyph of Energy is uber.

Do you actually play GvG?

Shock is definitely not "uber" on a Dervish, and it's hardly anything but a combo-starter for an Assassin - and you don't even see AoD Shock sins running around anymore.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 30, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Do you actually play GvG?

Shock is definitely not "uber" on a Dervish, and it's hardly anything but a combo-starter for an Assassin - and you don't even see AoD Shock sins running around anymore.

Yes, we got beaten by a rank 4 guild with a Me/E using Glyph of energy + Gale. Believe it or not, it's uber! There's nothing we can do vs that Gale spammer!

And yes you are right, Derv barely run shock but yes they do run it at least in HA (conjure, storm Djin, Shock derv) - reason for shock is because of snare. Derv can not complete the full combo if the monk is kiting crazily! Shock will do it if use it right.

For the sin, I only see a couple for like 4 months ago. Don't see any now. But at least they did run it! I also belive some people run Shock + Toxic Shock in RA. Yes SoJ + Toxic is better but with the other combo you can run another elite instead.

Pyro maniac · Jan 30, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Yes, we got beaten by a rank 4 guild with a Me/E using Glyph of energy + Gale. Believe it or not, it's uber! There's nothing we can do vs that Gale spammer!

And yes you are right, Derv barely run shock but yes they do run it at least in HA (conjure, storm Djin, Shock derv) - reason for shock is because of snare. Derv can not complete the full combo if the monk is kiting crazily! Shock will do it if use it right.

For the sin, I only see a couple for like 4 months ago. Don't see any now. But at least they did run it! I also belive some people run Shock + Toxic Shock in RA. Yes SoJ + Toxic is better but with the other combo you can run another elite instead.

It's hard to read, however you're right some guilds still run Gale + Glyph. Not that strong imo, they tend to be a bit predictable. While it's still nice, it just can't be compared to the gale wars.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 30, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

You mean shock War?

Gale war vanished since the update 10e

Pyro maniac · Jan 30, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Gale war vanished since the update 10e

jup, but I meant those

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 30, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

classic gale owned so hard it wasn't even funny

LightningHell · Jan 30, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I want the old Gale back. 5e, 3s knockdown. The 5->10e was warranted, but I have no idea why ANet nerfed it to 2 seconds.

Glyph + Gale isn't really strong. Gale is a pretty strong skill on its own.

xDusT II · Jan 31, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I want the old Gale back. 5e, 3s knockdown. The 5->10e was warranted, but I have no idea why ANet nerfed it to 2 seconds.

Glyph + Gale isn't really strong. Gale is a pretty strong skill on its own.

Most guilds will take GoE + Gale on a mesmer because of the extremely flexible elite spot. I wouldn't call it extremely strong, but it's a lot more flexible and effective than the other mesmer elites, in terms of general movement control.

LightningHell · Jan 31, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Most guilds will take GoE + Gale on a mesmer because of the extremely flexible elite spot. I wouldn't call it extremely strong, but it's a lot more flexible and effective than the other mesmer elites, in terms of general movement control.

Ah, yes. GoE isn't too bad on a Mesmer. I was under the impression s/he was putting it on an Elementalist, since this thread is about Gale on Elementalists. My apologies.

Ensign · Jan 31, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Gale with a lot of Fast Casting is still pretty good. It's pretty marginal on anything else though.

And yes, Doji is a beast with Gale.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 31, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I want the old Gale back. 5e, 3s knockdown. The 5->10e was warranted, but I have no idea why ANet nerfed it to 2 seconds.

Glyph + Gale isn't really strong. Gale is a pretty strong skill on its own.

In HA, kd isn't really a big deal because of Ward of Stability and Aura of Stability. In 4v4 type, kd isn't really a big deal either because lacking of ganking/spiking dmg. But in GvG, there's almost no anti kd skill unless you are running weird stuffs and bringing Aura of Stab in the monk/Ele is really not worth it.

Think about you can spam gale every 6 sec (with glyph of energy) and get 3 sec kd. It's just insane. 2s is a wise choice Anet have updated.

Yes [dR] run this combo (Doji to be specific.) I just know this recently. In [dR] build I belive the M-blast E do have gale as well if I'm not mistaken. The way Doji spam gale is dam crazy. The other team is retreating and there's almost no way they can prevent at least 1-2 deaths.

Quoted from LightningHell: "Glyph + Gale isn't really strong. Gale is a pretty strong skill on its own."

Gale isn't that strong on its own because of exhaustion. That mean you can not spam it no matter what build you are running. GoE + Gale = super strong in GvG (yes GvG ONLY). A constant 2s kd (every 8-10s) is really powerful when the other team have almost no way of preventing it. It's fast cast = can't interupt well. It's an ensure kd because in top GvG, there's not much or almost none anti kd skill/spells.

Pyro maniac · Jan 31, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Yes [dR] run this combo (Doji to be specific.) I just know this recently. In [dR] build I belive the M-blast E do have gale as well if I'm not mistaken. The way Doji spam gale is dam crazy. The other team is retreating and there's almost no way they can prevent at least 1-2 deaths.

I think ensign knows that as well ..

and as for AoS in GvG. Still pretty good, I actually never leave without

LightningHell · Feb 01, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I think we're arguing from different points here.

Quote:

Think about you can spam gale every 6 sec (with glyph of energy) and get 3 sec kd. It's just insane. 2s is a wise choice Anet have updated.

Apart from the mistake that Glyph of Energy's recharge being 10...Gale's 3s KD was very powerful indeed, but it wasn't too gamebreaking - it was a skill of which effectiveness scaled quite a bit with player skill. Although I'm probably a bit selfish in saying I want Gale to be 3s.

Quote:

Yes [dR] run this combo (Doji to be specific.) I just know this recently. In [dR] build I belive the M-blast E do have gale as well if I'm not mistaken. The way Doji spam gale is dam crazy. The other team is retreating and there's almost no way they can prevent at least 1-2 deaths.

I'm not saying that Gale isn't good, I was saying that taking Glyph of Energy to complement Gale on a Elementalist is pretty dumb. There is absolutely no reason why Gale wouldn't be on an Ele - I was trying to say that you don't put Glyph of Energy on an Ele, of which you didn't mention and I was misunderstanding what you were saying.

Quote:

Gale isn't that strong on its own because of exhaustion. That mean you can not spam it no matter what build you are running. GoE + Gale = super strong in GvG (yes GvG ONLY). A constant 2s kd (every 8-10s) is really powerful when the other team have almost no way of preventing it. It's fast cast = can't interupt well. It's an ensure kd because in top GvG, there's not much or almost none anti kd skill/spells.

Gale is powerful enough because it's a KD whenever you want it, allowing for a player to create windows of opportunities pretty much at will. Glyph of Energy is just icing imo. Having a 'constant 2s kd (every 8-10s)' is IMO detrimental to how you use gale, as when you spam you become predictable in your KD patterns.

And I think there are anti-kd skill/spells in GvG.

JDRyder · Feb 01, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Shock on melee
Gale on casters

end of thread

NamelessBeauty · Feb 03, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Not true.

You can run an Ele with "Shock", "After Shock", "Shockwave". I was running it in randomway HA. It works. Lots of pressure but need to run it right.

Gale can be on the Derv and Sin as well. Though I can not tell which specific build to run but I believe in some cases, depending on builds it can exist!

Assumption isn't a very good way to learn things!

LightningHell · Feb 03, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

If you take Shock on an ele, you basically can't use it outside that combo. Gale is flexible enough that you can use it outside Gale/AS/Shockwave , and it does that combo as well as Shock. And it's pretty hard to not "run it right", as it's an extremely onedimensional build.

And I can't think of any reason why you'd take Gale over Shock on a melee.

Quote:

Assumption isn't a very good way to learn things!

Gimping yourself also isn't a good way to play.

xDusT II · Feb 03, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

The question is WHY would you bother using shock on an elementalist. Is 5 energy or a minor amount of damage enough to make you sacrifice the huge benefits of a ranged KD?