Curse

Jaigoda · Jan 25, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

anyways, you SHOULD definately do L-O-D in RA, simple reason;

half of the players actually carry one or more blocking stances.

This is somewhat true, if not exaggerated, But the thing is, you don't need an L-O-D chain for another simple reason:

Shadow Walk gets you there so fast, they have only about 1 second (smaller than you might think considering people often have ever-so-slight lag) to hit that block stance before GPS gets in. After that, your skills recharge fast enough so that it's not much of a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

you could just try this then;

Crit Defenses - GPS - DB - MB - Ox - Siphon - Wild Blow - Rez

it might suit your style too.

No shadow-step, no self-heal means phail IMHO. Sorry to be blunt.

EDIT: It might make a good TA team (if you fit in a surprise factor somehow - without one, even with the speed boost of SS, they'll be nice and protted up by the time you hit them), but in RA, it's rare to get a good monk, so you HAVE to have a self-heal to survive.

moko · Jan 25, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

if there are going to melee meles on you, crit defenses will save your butt. along with a snare, you're good to go.

SR would not.

if there will be hexes, you will be useless either way. run out of range and regen, or just snare people that aren't hexed.

SR would keep you up for 5 seconds more. worth it? not at all.

if there are damaging casters, SR won't do crap. nor will the shadowstep help you; siphon could if you use it wisely.

the point of a blocking stance is the "oshi-!" reaction. you're about to die or on the ground? you pop a stance, get up, use guardian. THEN the sin recharges won't help anyways. now, if you do the same thing with a stance remover, their oshi button is screwed and they will most likely die. also, lots of RA monks run Frenzied Defense (which should be good for you as long as you have stance removal) which has a low recharge.

shadowsteps are really only good if they snare, shadow walk is a pve/ab/npc gank skill, nothing more.

you can debate about the selfheal, but i'll say it again.

RA stomps you
selfheal doesn't help vs stomp
selfheal is useless

utility would keep you up longer.

if anything, have your own "OSHI-!" button, called feigned neutrality.

i have messed around with a lot of sin combos, especially moebius in ra, with various forms of selfheals, shadowsteps, snares, anything and really -- AoD is better, but that's besides the fact -- i found these kinda things to work the best. :P

Calista Blackblood · Jan 25, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

This is somewhat true, if not exaggerated, But the thing is, you don't need an L-O-D chain for another simple reason:

Shadow Walk gets you there so fast, they have only about 1 second (smaller than you might think considering people often have ever-so-slight lag) to hit that block stance before GPS gets in. After that, your skills recharge fast enough so that it's not much of a problem.

No shadow-step, no self-heal means phail IMHO. Sorry to be blunt.

EDIT: It might make a good TA team (if you fit in a surprise factor somehow - without one, even with the speed boost of SS, they'll be nice and protted up by the time you hit them), but in RA, it's rare to get a good monk, so you HAVE to have a self-heal to survive.

the brunt of the criticism isnt about the shadow stepping or how quickly you can hit with GPS.its more about using a crappy 6 second enchantment like shadow refuge (which in R/A could be very very quickly removed) necros mesmers sins and dervishes can all remove enchants quicker than you could blink.your up s**t creek without a paddle if SR is ripped between casting and shadow walking to target

hence why an L-O-D (E) attack chain that can be used without pre-requisite *hexed foe* *knocked down* *under enchantment* and so on.bar compression is good as your losing the lead attack but to a bad enchantment that could easily be removed

fast recharge chain with no pre-requistes

[skill]Jagged Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]

Hex
[skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] example hex [skill]Siphon Speed[/skill]

Enchantment
[skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] example enchantment [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill]

Longer knockdown+probable enchantment
[skill]Horns of The Ox[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Falling Spider[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]

and a fyi going A/Mo and using [skill]Restful Breeze[/skill] @3 healing will net you 10>regen for 10 seconds for 5 energy compared to [skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill] which will for 3 shadow arts and 5 energy give you 6>regen for 6 seconds

fireflyry · Jan 25, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

lol

Nice build for pressure.

Persinally not having a deep wound in TA/RA = lol.

As said...thats only my opinion...as flawed as any in premise.

Jaigoda · Jan 25, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

if there are going to melee meles on you, crit defenses will save your butt. along with a snare, you're good to go.

That's why you step in AFTER the melees are engaged. If you run in without a shadow-step, they've got all that time to see you and react. Crit Defenses might save you, but if you've got a step, you don't need it. I rarely actually am attacked by warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

SR would keep you up for 5 seconds more. worth it? not at all.

SR easily keeps you up at least 10 seconds even if you're being targetted by 1-2 foes. No, it won't keep you at max health, but see, unlike yours which has to run at the first sign of significant danger or risk death, my build can step out exactly when it wants, and has 3 seconds to Dash out of the casters' ranges. This gives you an extra ~5 seconds before your health will drop to critical levels, even if your being hit hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

if there are damaging casters, SR won't do crap. nor will the shadowstep help you; siphon could if you use it wisely.

You don't understand; SR's for the enchantment, and I only use it over Assassin's Remedy, Crit Defenses, etc. because with the degen and hexes in RA, you still have to heal yourself even out of the combat. And if there's a caster, even with your almighty SS, they'll get at least several hits on you before you get out of their range, and degen will be able to finish you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

the point of a blocking stance is the "oshi-!" reaction. you're about to die or on the ground? you pop a stance, get up, use guardian. THEN the sin recharges won't help anyways. now, if you do the same thing with a stance remover, their oshi button is screwed and they will most likely die. also, lots of RA monks run Frenzied Defense (which should be good for you as long as you have stance removal) which has a low recharge.

But in this scenario, even with your stance-removal, you're not going to do sh-t either. While you might not be in as bad a position (though with Shadow Walk, you're never in a bad position), you've still got Guardian to get through, which will quite effectively neuter your DPS. Then, you've got the problem of getting out, which again, comes so SS. While it might also provide a snare, Dash is just about as effective at getting away as SS (especially if it pops you an aggro bubble away to start).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

shadowsteps are really only good if they snare, shadow walk is a pve/ab/npc gank skill, nothing more.

The only problems I run into are monks, and an occasional ranger. But with monks, if he's stupid (and in RA, that's the most common kind), he'll run in a straight line away from you, but also from his allies. Thus, your team can just pick off the others while the monk runs a marathon. If he's smart, he'll run in a circle. But this allows you to get a hit every few seconds, at which point HotO puts em on the ground long enough to get a Moebius and another dual off (and if they're under 50%, Horns Lock). And while this may not be as effective as SS, it's still enough to cause very good pressure, especially since if the monk's kiting, he's not healing, and if he's not healing, the party's dying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

you can debate about the selfheal, but i'll say it again.

Go ahead, I don't mind repeating myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

RA stomps you
selfheal doesn't help vs stomp
selfheal is useless

Don't knock it till you try it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

utility would keep you up longer.

kockdown-lockdown is my utility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

if anything, have your own "OSHI-!" button, called feigned neutrality.

My 'ohshi-' button is SW+Dash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

i have messed around with a lot of sin combos, especially moebius in ra, with various forms of selfheals, shadowsteps, snares, anything and really -- AoD is better, but that's besides the fact -- i found these kinda things to work the best. :P

Then you haven't tried my build.

EoM

moko · Jan 25, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

I rarely actually am attacked by warriors.

then this defeats the purpose of a selfheal.

SR easily keeps you up at least 10 seconds even if you're being targetted by 1-2 foes. No, it won't keep you at max health, but see, unlike yours which has to run at the first sign of significant danger or risk death, my build can step out exactly when it wants, and has 3 seconds to Dash out of the casters' ranges. This gives you an extra ~5 seconds before your health will drop to critical levels, even if your being hit hard.[/quote]

it doesn't actually have to run at any sign of danger; and yes, step out one aggro circle, whoo.

Quote:

You don't understand; SR's for the enchantment, and I only use it over Assassin's Remedy, Crit Defenses, etc. because with the degen and hexes in RA, you still have to heal yourself even out of the combat. And if there's a caster, even with your almighty SS, they'll get at least several hits on you before you get out of their range, and degen will be able to finish you.

see my comment about hexes, i'm talking about actual damage casters here. for hexes, both will be equally useless.

Quote:

But in this scenario, even with your stance-removal, you're not going to do sh-t either. While you might not be in as bad a position (though with Shadow Walk, you're never in a bad position), you've still got Guardian to get through, which will quite effectively neuter your DPS. Then, you've got the problem of getting out, which again, comes so SS. While it might also provide a snare, Dash is just about as effective at getting away as SS (especially if it pops you an aggro bubble away to start).

yes, cause i can cast guardian when i'm knocked down, too. re-read maybe, it's meant to be a finisher, not pressuring someone with guardian.

Quote:

Don't knock it till you try it.

i have long before you even 'made it up'.

Quote:

kockdown-lockdown is my utility.

and this is not the case in 'my' build, how?

Quote:

My 'ohshi-' button is SW+Dash.

so your 'pshi-!" button vs degen and lots of damage is dash, shadow walk, and SR as you said above. cool, i like trading 1 for 3, too.

Quote:

Then you haven't tried my build.

of course i havn't; i already said -- and besides, have you tested 'mine'? not that it matters, but i can play the same game. as i said, SW+Dash is made for AB, PvE and NPC gank.

PS i hate doing quotewars but i'm forced to in this case.

BlackSephir · Jan 25, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Puriel

And yeah, Black Sephir has no clue what he's talking about.

And yeah, you're another dumb troll that fails to adress the person he wants top be mean to. Way to go, big boy.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 25, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

its a good thing I try to aviod them at all costs....

I have seen what mobious DB spam can do in RA and TA and in PvP and I'll admit it puts out very nice dmg.

Your build is good albiet an old ass build that many people have ran in the past but still it works well

Bobby2 · Jan 25, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

- I prefer GFS-WS over GPS.

- SR+GPS while SWing is iffy.

- defeat Guardian and FrenzDef in one fell swoop by going A/N for Rigor Mortis

Ares Ainia · Jan 25, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

@ OP : Why don't you use [skill]Way of Perfection[/skill] Instead? lasts 60sec, recharge = 30sec, occasional heal

Unless ofcourse you're going for constant heal, but thats just my input

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 30, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

still this is nothing more than another mobious spam

end of story