Curse

kel77 · Jan 25, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

As it is, [skill]Battle Rage[/skill] is completely ignored in almost 100% of warrior builds people use. It is true that the warrior profession does have a large number of strong elites that are viable in both pve and pvp, however I do not think that this skill should be so...useless. What I propose is not so much a buff as a change in the mechanics of the skill.
What I think:
Make it a speed buff as well as an IAS.
Possibly the skill could be something like this...
Battle Rage {Elite}
Cost: 8 adrenaline
Elite Stance. For 5-20 seconds, move 25% faster and attack 25% faster. Battle rage ends if you use any non-attack skills. When Battle Rage ends, you lose all adrenaline.

With this change, I think the skill is balanced, but still much more powerful then before. Even though most warriors might still ignore it in favor of other elites, this skill could become a boon for assassins, allowing them to quickly execute a chain on a speedy fleeing enemy. Perhaps it could become a staple in warrior hero builds because a long lasting stance would require very little microing, while greatly improving the heroes damage.

Thank you for reading this,
Kel

dread pirate fargus · Jan 25, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

i agree that it needs a buff, however it would be buffed for me enough if they changed the machanics so that it doesnt end when you reapply the stance. the whole gain adrenaline faster can be useful charging up adrenaline fast on one target, then swapping to another and executing a spike. nice ideas tho, an IAS would be sweet.

Tyla · Jan 25, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Hmmmm...it needs a buff, yes but i think that would be quite imba.

Whiskeyjack · Jan 25, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Hmmmm...it needs a buff, yes but i think that would be quite imba.

Agreed, your proposed change would be far to strong, though i do agree with the op that battle rage is a very unattractive option currently.

kel77 · Jan 25, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Ok I really like the idea of speed buff and IAS in one...give it a 10 second recharge maybe?

Marverick · Jan 25, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Make it a skill and it might see some play. Right now, it's useless because the only IASs warriors have are stances.

Yichi · Jan 25, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

battle rage in itself is garbage. In 99.9% of every build thats good for a warrior, there is an elite that will always outshine battle rage.

If axes, you have eviscerate, tripple chop, hell even cleave outshines battle rage...
If swords you have cripslash, dslash..
Hammer you have backbreaker, earthshaker, dev hammer...

All the elites serve a purpose and actually help the build. Battle rage being adrenaline based to begin with already hurts the elite beingin that you have to "charge" it to use it. If you're a warrior, you want an instant IAS, not one you have to "charge" to use and an elite that accomplishes something in a build.

nebuchanezzar · Jan 25, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Battle Rage probably can't be altered without making it overpowered. Itself it's not so hot but imagine combo'd with DSlash for example, another case of making something an Elite so it can't be mixed with another Elite imo. It compresses FGJ and a speed buff into one stance at best tbh. The downsides are pretty hefty though I agree and without some changes it will simply remain, subpar.

Chrono Re delle Ere · Jan 25, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I used to love this skill when I started playing, infact it was a must in my starter builds....the IAS add would make it overpowered imo, and well surely not 25%...if it would be like 15% increased speed and 15% increased IAS it would be quite balanced imo...

and well yea the fact that you loose adrenaline is damn annoying , but taking it out would make it a "use and forget" skill, and it would be useful for any situation.

Another option would also be removing the double adrenaline gain bonus and trow in +25% IAS, so that you would still need another skill (looks at FGJ) to fulfill your purpose.

Gathering all this points in mind, yea, I guess that it would be sweet to see this skill used by pve/pvp warriors ^^

kel77 · Jan 25, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono Re delle Ere

if it would be like 15% increased speed and 15% increased IAS it would be quite balanced imo...

Then you have an elite drunken master... except battle rage lasts 1/5 the time and makes you lose adrenaline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono Re delle Ere

Another option would also be removing the double adrenaline gain bonus and trow in +25% IAS, so that you would still need another skill (looks at FGJ) to fulfill your purpose.

That's exactly the proposition I made...

ShadowbaneX · Jan 25, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

Battle Rage probably can't be altered without making it overpowered. Itself it's not so hot but imagine combo'd with DSlash for example, another case of making something an Elite so it can't be mixed with another Elite imo. It compresses FGJ and a speed buff into one stance at best tbh. The downsides are pretty hefty though I agree and without some changes it will simply remain, subpar.

well, first of all, you can't combine D-Slash with Battle Rage as they're both elites. Additionally, I think there's a cap for the amount of extra adrenaline that can be gained, but I'm not 100% sure and I don't feel like looking it up.

Second, I disagree with your first sentence. I think it can be buffed without being overpowered, it just needs some drawbacks. I'm just thinking aloud here, throwing out ideas.

-A Frenzy-like damage penalty, perhaps something that scales with points in strength from 100%..50% extra damage taken.
-Conditions: Cracked Armour (similar to Aggressive Refrain) while it's active and Weakness when it ends (to represent the exhausted state the warrior will be in).
-Getting rid of the idea that it ends when you reuse it also good. Thinking though it should reapply itself everytime, but in this case it reapplies itself every time you kill something.
-Dropping the extra Adrenaline would be fine because an IAS pretty much does that anyway (more hits = more adrenaline).
-Bonus damage and an endure-pain-like temporary health boost might also be neat, although that might be too D&D.
-Make it Form like the Dervish Avatars, instead of a Stance. Say perhaps a one to two second activation time, disabled for a minute or two when it ends (again mimicking the exhaustion that the berzerkers felt when they came out of it).

etc, etc.

kel77 · Jan 25, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I like a lot of the ideas shadowbane posted , and he is right, most of them feel very DnD. However I feel that implementing some of these drawbacks while making it a speed buff and IAS would make it quite balanced...
Thanks to shadowbane for great brainstorming...hope Izzy reads this...

Crom The Pale · Jan 26, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Simply remove the penalty of losing all adrenaline when it ends/reaplied.

That would make this a permanent FGJ, though you lose your elite so your left with only normal attack skills.

Arkantos · Jan 26, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

This is one of those skills that it's either crap or overpowered. As it is, it's crap. If you want to buff it to be good, it will be overpowered. If you try to get in between, it will still be bad.

Dutch Masterr · Jan 26, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

This is probably one of my most used elites...

[skill]healing signet[/skill] [skill]defensive stance[/skill] [skill]enraging charge[/skill] [skill]battle rage[/skill] [skill]dismember[/skill] [skill]agonizing chop[/skill] [skill]executioner's strike[/skill] [skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Defensive stance and res sigent can be replaced by [skill]mending touch[/skill] or [skill]disrupting chop[/skill]

I find that build to work very well almost anywhere.

For those of you that REALLY need that IAS you could always throw in [skill]weapon of aggression[/skill]

kel77 · Jan 26, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

uh huh...
12 chars

Yichi · Jan 26, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

This is probably one of my most used elites...

[skill]healing signet[/skill] [skill]defensive stance[/skill] [skill]enraging charge[/skill] [skill]battle rage[/skill] [skill]dismember[/skill] [skill]agonizing chop[/skill] [skill]executioner's strike[/skill] [skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Defensive stance and res sigent can be replaced by [skill]mending touch[/skill] or [skill]disrupting chop[/skill]

I find that build to work very well almost anywhere.

For those of you that REALLY need that IAS you could always throw in [skill]weapon of aggression[/skill]

or you could run a better ias and eviscerate and have a better bar?

Zamochit · Jan 26, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Keep the 25% increased movement speed ~ Lose the double adrenaline ~ *attacks cannot be blocked* ~ ends if you use a non adrenal skill ~ shorten duration

kel77 · Jan 27, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

No...I don't really like the attacks cannot be blocked thing...a beserk rage would make one reckless and wild, not more cunning and able to split through any enemies defense.

Surena · Jan 28, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Berserkers even used to hit their own people in their mushroom-infected rage.

If you add an IAS you'll have your second RaO and we know how stupid that is. The option not to lose adrenaline should be fairly harmless though.