Curse

Painbringer · Jan 16, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

My main character I play is a Mesmer …. And before you go “go to a different forum” I want to ask some more experienced Sin players what type of counters you have. I wish to make myself a better “sin” player and if you can help me… I am sure you will help other players. I will post 3 different attacks that I use with different skill setups and you post your counter skills. I know there are counters out there because I have been chopped down before my combo is complete. But only a few have ever done it. Most die then get rezzed and then try to take me out again. This is the opening attack of the match. I break the norm and try and take the sin out 1st before monks only because of the spike they can do on a target if left unhindered. This is not a flame I am really interested in what counters are available. (Not just primary sin skills if you have secondary class skills you use post them)

This is lets say a RA situation

Attack one : Classic Recurring Soul Barbs (very fast hexing of target but I am very vulnerable if I lose soul barbs on target.)

[skill]Soul barbs[/skill] [skill]Recurring Insecurity[/skill] [skill]kitah's burden[/skill] [skill]parasitic bond[/skill] [skill]conjure nightmare[/skill] Then it is the spamming of Parasitic bond that kills you.

Attack two : Degeneration and blind

As you are running towards me and enter spell range [skill]kitah's burden[/skill] followed by [skill]conjure nightmare[/skill] when you get to me [skill]ineptitude[/skill] and when you try to heal [skill]drain enchantment[/skill] Yes shadow steps help but I will get kitah’s on you before you step and can kite for distance.

Attack three : Empathy and shackles (I am probably one of the few that ever use this combo)

[skill]spirit shackles[/skill] then [skill]empathy[/skill] then when you get close [skill]signet of midnight[/skill] most run away at this point, but some keep going, and last the good ones still kill me [skill]Wastrel's Worry[/skill] and [skill]energy burn[/skill] till you drop

DDL · Jan 16, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Condition removal isn't difficult with things like [skill]Assassin's Remedy[/skill], but hex removal is tougher (deliberately so, I assume).

As far as I can figure, a lot of this is highly difficult to counter (which is after all exactly why you've chosen it), but a lot of it also relies on the sin being either slow to react or just plain stupid: if they stop attacking and kite away, you're far less likely to score a kill with the latter two (you won't run the risk of dying too, of course). And getting soul barbs landed on yourself is usually a good cue to run the hell out of spell range, since the only time it's really worth taking is when the build can really make it hurt.

In a one on one scenario, a mesmer optimised for sin-hate will probably beat a sin most of the time. Thus in this case I'd guess the best counter would be to not attack you, absorb the hexes, do my best to get out of range and stay alive, and let someone else gank you while you were focussing on me.

Pyro maniac · Jan 16, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

[skill]Holy Veil[/skill]
or they will just ignore you, wait untill hexes wear out and then do their combo ..

xxx wraith xxx · Jan 16, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Hmm what I ussualy do in case I come up vs mesmer is:
1: check wether it is illussion or dom mesmer
2: anti caster or anti melee
3:in case of anti caster go for it and in case of anti melee hope he targets some1 else in youre team :P BUT if he targets you then just run straight past him, w8 until hexes wear off (ussually the average players dont pay attention wether theyre hexes end on the target or not) then go nail that mesmer.

TBH i think that necros are far worse to counter, spreading degen and such while they can counter almost any melee with just 1 skill....Insidious parasite it just owns sins (i am experienced necro and better then average on every other proff). if you still have any questions just whisp me ingame: Grenths Wraith
(you can whisper for any proff but i cant promisse ill be able to help you)

Greetings, Wraith

pygar · Jan 16, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Some classes are just going to have matchup problems against other classes, unless you make a build that probably leaves u weak against something else.... I dont play a sin, but rather a ranger.....and with a lot of ranger builds mesmers are the last thing i want to tangle with....the key is to recognize bad matchups and try to avoid them.

My one real counter for mesmers as a ranger is to run Magebane with Holy Veil, which does give me a way better chance to down mesmers (or other hex builds)....but that build for me then struggles against strong tanks. (lack of damage)

X Cytherea X · Jan 16, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

i run [skill]holy veil[/skill] and [skill]mending touch[/skill] on my sin in RA and they fit this bar

[skill]dash[/skill][skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]shattering assault[/skill][skill]critical strike[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

very well. i cast them on the fly, on any antimelee faggotry that gets on me, even mid-combo.

i also instantly stop attacking when i see the [skill]ineptitude[/skill] icon, by tapping back, no matter how close i am to melee range... my reflexes are just that leet. same for other noobish hexes that require me to attack

edit1: this bar
[skill]dash[/skill][skill]leaping mantis sting[/skill][skill]temple strike[/skill][skill]twisting fangs[/skill][skill]lotus strike[/skill][skill]remove hex[/skill][skill]mending touch[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
is even better for killing mesmers, and more brutal. though lacking antiblock, that's why it's my secondary (but almost as frequent) RA build.

edit2: go crawl back to your mesmer forum. cowardly antimelee...

pygar · Jan 16, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

@ the OP.... I would bet the consensus here for anti-hex building will revolve around Holy Veil, it is a no-attribute skill that not only removes hexes it slows them down making it better than most hex-removal just for the proactive defense.....pre-casting Veil before engaging, you can use Veil to flush 2 Hexes in 3 seconds. (double clik to end the precast, re-cast and double clik again)

Bobby2 · Jan 16, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Beguiling Haze. Yee Haw!

ensoriki · Jan 16, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Purely RA setting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

[skill]Soul barbs[/skill] [skill]Recurring Insecurity[/skill] [skill]kitah's burden[/skill] [skill]parasitic bond[/skill] [skill]conjure nightmare[/skill] Then it is the spamming of Parasitic bond that kills you.

I bring one of these skills
Spotless mind (it removes a hex when it ends)[card]Inspired Hex[/card]Cure Hex[card]Smite Hex[/card][card]Contemplation of Purity[/card][card]Pious Restoration[/card]
Or Holy viel

I have only Chosen 5 energy skills, meaning if your complete bar has some energy denial, I may not completely collapse.Pious Restoration is a okay choice
I would remove either, Kitah's Burden or Soul Barbs, the degeneration means little as I'll have you dead soon enough

What is my Chain?
The lead attack is 1 of these 2 skills
[card]Disrupting stab[/card] or [card]Leaping Mantis Sting[/card]
I then follow with, Exhausting assault, Moebius Strike,
The final part of my chain is 1 of 3 skills
Twisting Fangs/Death blossom/Critical strike
If I choose DB or CS I will bring Impale as well.

so far that means I have 6 or 7 (if I bring Impale)skills
As its RA I'm bringing a res signet. I don't want a bar with only 1 utility skill, so I'll bring twisting Fangs.
meaning I have 1 skill slot left.
If im bringing Pious Restoration , that skill slot is
Assassin's Remedy, Grenths aura/fingers or vital boon
However if I choose something else, Im taking a shadow step or Dash.
I'm able to beat your combo, all thats left is to
Disable one of your spells hopefully (if I bring disrupting stab
or exhaust you, either way you should die.

Quote:

Attack two : Degeneration and blind

As you are running towards me and enter spell range [skill]kitah's burden[/skill] followed by [skill]conjure nightmare[/skill] when you get to me [skill]ineptitude[/skill] and when you try to heal [skill]drain enchantment[/skill] Yes shadow steps help but I will get kitah’s on you before you step and can kite for distance.

I've been watching you, and seen that you have drain enchantment, or have survived from a previous encounter from you.
My skills are
Assassin's remedy, Way of Perfection Golden Phoenix Strike, Critical Strike, Moebius Strike, Twisting Fangs, I have Siphon Speed as well and Resurrection signet.
Yes you have kitah's burden, but your prioritizing.
Kitah or ineptitude, you said you cast inept first so that gives me time to move into Siphon range, even if you cast kitah's I am 16% faster than you.
Your might die.

Quote:

Attack three : Empathy and shackles (I am probably one of the few that ever use this combo)

[skill]spirit shackles[/skill] then [skill]empathy[/skill] then when you get close [skill]signet of midnight[/skill] most run away at this point, but some keep going, and last the good ones still kill me [skill]Wastrel's Worry[/skill] and [skill]energy burn[/skill] till you drop

Assassin's Remedy, Cure Hex, Golden Phoenix Strike, Critical Strike, Moebius Strike, Twisting Fangs,
My final skill is
Disrupting Throw Or Dash.

You cannot blind me, and you have no enchantment removal.
I remove Spirit shackles because its a huge threat to me, you cast empathy, I power through it, with Critical Strike My energy will be fine through Energy Burn, I execute Twisting Fangs and kite away.

If I had D Throw and was close enough, you don't get off empathy.
Essentially you should not be able to stop me.

The other option is I wait for you to cast it on one of my team mates (empathy)
Then the only real threat is Energy Burn as I cure Hex Spirit shackles.

Hope that helps