Curse

Clarissa F · Dec 16, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

For elites, if you are talking about yourself, go [skill]aura of the lich[/skill] or [skill]order of undeath[/skill], as you can manage it well. Heroes are best with spammables, like [skill]jagged bones[/skill] or [skill]tainted flesh[/skill], as they'll hit those and [skill]death nova[/skill] all day.

Oh, and if there is more than one MM, don't give them [skill]blood of the master[/skill]. I've seen someone's Master of Whispers kill himself spamming that. Nice having 8 minions with Death Nova fighting you in Vizunah.

Quaker · Dec 16, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodensis

My answer on original question: Flesh Golem isn't dead, but pro teams work on precision and MM are out-ranked these days (especially since last b/p nerf).

It's unfortunate that so many posters (OP's) don't specify if they are talking PvE or PvP or both, because it usually makes a difference.

iridescentfyre · Dec 16, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

When I'm running my H&H mini-b/p group, the minions mostly function as "blockers", so the longer they last, the better.

Your own argument for Flesh Golem actually favors Jagged Bones for a longer-lasting 10-minion army and Aura of the Lich for more Blood of the Master spam. The Flesh Golem is not the best option even for this.

Would you seriously rather have one big minion that lasts longer, or an entire army that lasts long?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

It's unfortunate that so many posters (OP's) don't specify if they are talking PvE or PvP or both, because it usually makes a difference.

I think in a thread discussing MMs, one should not need to be reminded that we're talking about PvE.

Ashe. · Dec 16, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I personally prefer the minion bomber build to any other.

Online Gamer · Dec 17, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

LOL IM DA ONLA WUN ANSARIN ma cwestshuns

Online Gamer · Dec 17, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

hehehe nvm mind and up there i said "LOL i am the only one answering my questions

Quaker · Dec 17, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Your own argument for Flesh Golem actually favors Jagged Bones for a longer-lasting 10-minion army and Aura of the Lich for more Blood of the Master spam. The Flesh Golem is not the best option even for this.

I don't see why you think [wiki]Jagged Bones[/wiki] is so great. It only works on the "target" creature, which has to die to make it work. So, you have a weaker (than FG) minion that dies sooner, to make another weaker than FG minion. I admit I haven't actually used it, but I think that you may end up with just as good a meat shield either way. Especially when the MM is using Shambling Horrors anyway.
And, you may be missing one important thing in my post - I'm not the MM in my mini-b/p group. I have enough micro-managing to do in the group already, without having to make sure the Hero MM is using JB correctly.
And I really don't see where [wiki]Aura of the Lich[/wiki] would be of any help (to my Hero MM)

Quote:

I think in a thread discussing MMs, one should not need to be reminded that we're talking about PvE.

Actually, the OP was asking about Flesh Golem not MM's. We don't know whether he was talking about PvE or not, so there's no "reminding" going on.

Coloneh · Dec 17, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I don't see why you think [wiki]Jagged Bones[/wiki] is so great. It only works on the "target" creature, which has to die to make it work. So, you have a weaker (than FG) minion that dies sooner, to make another weaker than FG minion. I admit I haven't actually used it, but I think that you may end up with just as good a meat shield either way. Especially when the MM is using Shambling Horrors anyway.
And, you may be missing one important thing in my post - I'm not the MM in my mini-b/p group. I have enough micro-managing to do in the group already, without having to make sure the Hero MM is using JB correctly.
And I really don't see where [wiki]Aura of the Lich[/wiki] would be of any help (to my Hero MM)

1. Jagged bonues can keep up 4 minions forever. try it.
2. heroes use JB better than you could ever hope to, they can put JB on a minion a second before it dies.
3. AotL is the only non-nightfall elite a MM should ever carry. If you cant get order of undeath or jagged bones then take AotL. the healing power is unmatched by any MM heal in the game and it reduces your sacrifice from BotM.

Carinae · Dec 17, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

did aura of the lich used to cut healing in half?

No. The description used to say it did, but it didn't. They just altered the description to match the effect, rather than vice-versa.

Quaker · Dec 17, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

1. Jagged bonues can keep up 4 minions forever. try it.
2. heroes use JB better than you could ever hope to, they can put JB on a minion a second before it dies.
3. AotL is the only non-nightfall elite a MM should ever carry. If you cant get order of undeath or jagged bones then take AotL. the healing power is unmatched by any MM heal in the game and it reduces your sacrifice from BotM.

Ok, so I'll give Jagged Bones a try with Livia and see how well she does.

But I still don't like AotL - you take half damage, but you have only half the health, making degen (bleeding, poison, etc.) more of a problem

Pyro maniac · Dec 17, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Ok, so I'll give Jagged Bones a try with Livia and see how well she does.

But I still don't like AotL - you take half damage, but you have only half the health, making degen (bleeding, poison, etc.) more of a problem

that's why regen is so nice on you. and taking half damage, but gaining full heal is also ftw ..

main reason why AotL is so good, is because of the half sac. Normally 10% out of 600 hp would be 60 hp. with AotL you only have got 300 hp, 10% of it would be 30 hp. But since it halves saccing, you only lose 15 hp.
That means you can use the skill (botm) 4 times, while have the same health loss as a single one without aotl ..

Online Gamer · Dec 17, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Pyro thanks for explaining that, it makes more sense to me now=D

blue.rellik · Dec 18, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Ok, so I'll give Jagged Bones a try with Livia and see how well she does.

But I still don't like AotL - you take half damage, but you have only half the health, making degen (bleeding, poison, etc.) more of a problem

[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill] + [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] + [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] + [skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]

Not only does BotM on 10 minions cost around 20 life, you'll consistently be taking 55ing levels of damage with insane regen and immunity to conditions.

Not to mention that it also doesn't gimp your skill bar. Monks rarely need to focus on you since you regen nearly all damage done to you and healing your minions is easy.

System_Crush · Dec 18, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill] + [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] + [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] + [skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]

Not only does BotM on 10 minions cost around 20 life, you'll consistently be taking 55ing levels of damage with insane regen and immunity to conditions.

Not to mention that it also doesn't gimp your skill bar. Monks rarely need to focus on you since you regen nearly all damage done to you and healing your minions is easy.

I used that for a while, its pretty good but if you like me use [skill=text]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] with it, the 10 energy every 10 seconds for mythic regen can get hefty at times.

And when not using fiends I like to take some kind of boost for my horrors, be that the bleeding form JB, [skill=text]Mark of Pain[/skill] or even [skill=text]Splinter Weapon[/skill] earth prayers doesn't have anything like that.
I guess I should get my hands on [wiki]Great Dwarf Weapon[/wiki] and see what it does for minions, though the faster speed of fiends would still make it better on them...

Quaker · Dec 18, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Normally 10% out of 600 hp would be 60 hp. with AotL you only have got 300 hp, 10% of it would be 30 hp. But since it halves saccing, you only lose 15 hp.
That means you can use the skill (botm) 4 times, while have the same health loss as a single one without aotl ..

I'm not sure where you're getting this 10% figure, but it's not the sac from BotM. BotM costs 5% of your health plus 2% for each minion healed - with 10 minions, that's 25%. With 300HP that would be 75HP, but with 1/2 sac it would be 37.5HP. (which is still 1/4 of the sac without AotL)
But at any rate, I find that Livia doesn't use BotM all that much, she tends to make new minions instead. When she does use it (which is nearly always after the battle), she loses about 131HP (23% of 570) which is nearly negated by the 110HP she gets from Heal Area (with 8 in HP).
In any case, with sufficient corpses, she is able to maintain 9 minions more or less constantly, whether she uses Flesh Golem or Jagged Bones and in spite of not using AotL. (she's using [wiki]Dark Bond[/wiki] atm, btw, but that's also in "testing phase" along with Jagged Bones.)

She seems to survive a lot better with more health. Jagged Bones doesn't seem to be any better in the long run, then Flesh Golem.

Pyro maniac · Dec 18, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I'm not sure where you're getting this 10% figure, but it's not the sac from BotM. BotM costs 5% of your health plus 2% for each minion healed - with 10 minions, that's 25%. With 300HP that would be 75HP, but with 1/2 sac it would be 37.5HP. (which is still 1/4 of the sac without AotL)
But at any rate, I find that Livia doesn't use BotM all that much, she tends to make new minions instead. When she does use it (which is nearly always after the battle), she loses about 131HP (23% of 570) which is nearly negated by the 110HP she gets from Heal Area (with 8 in HP).
In any case, with sufficient corpses, she is able to maintain 9 minions more or less constantly, whether she uses Flesh Golem or Jagged Bones and in spite of not using AotL. (she's using [wiki]Dark Bond[/wiki] atm, btw, but that's also in "testing phase" along with Jagged Bones.)

She seems to survive a lot better with more health. Jagged Bones doesn't seem to be any better in the long run, then Flesh Golem.

10% was a sample sac, since I didn't want to bother with: "if you have 8 minions then it would be ..."

Aura of the Lich is mainly for either own use (spamming AotL as it should) or dual MM on heroes. As Dual MM without AotL is just retarded

Emik · Dec 18, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

I used that for a while, its pretty good but if you like me use [skill=text]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] with it, the 10 energy every 10 seconds for mythic regen can get hefty at times.

And when not using fiends I like to take some kind of boost for my horrors, be that the bleeding form JB, [skill=text]Mark of Pain[/skill] or even [skill=text]Splinter Weapon[/skill] earth prayers doesn't have anything like that.
I guess I should get my hands on [wiki]Great Dwarf Weapon[/wiki] and see what it does for minions, though the faster speed of fiends would still make it better on them...

Masochism sorts all your energy problems.

Darkside · Dec 18, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Online Gamer

Awww man I like being MM i am good at it aswell

Lol...yah cause it's real hard being an mm. I'd rather have Olias with me...

Online Gamer · Dec 18, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

dont make fun of me

Moloch Vein · Dec 18, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

That's because Olias is God of Heroes.

I don't know what it is, and I sure would like for someone to tell me whether it's all in my head... but whenever I give Olias a build, he always manages to outperform my other necro heroes using it.

Do they really have the same AI?