Curse

SotiCoto · Oct 28, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I'd better face the facts.... I'm not a good Heal monk and I'm not a particularly good Prot monk either. I do slightly better with PuG teams than I do with my herohench as for some reason they seem inclined to prat around like a bunch of idiots whenever I try to do the whole heal-monk routine.

As such, I've tried running a Smiting build, and it seems to fix the AI issues (they apparently need me to be attacking the enemies and not merely target-pinging)... BUT... the Signet-Smite build I use, while good enough against single opponents, is all but worthless against groups and is slow enough to bug me.

Are there any good Smiting Monk builds with reasonable AoE damage AND proper Energy Management?

Draginvry · Oct 28, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Are there any good Smiting Monk builds with reasonable AoE damage AND proper Energy Management?

Not really. Virtually all smite builds will be slow unless you are facing undead. Smiting skills suffer from long recharge times. I don't see many non-farming smite builds.

horseradish · Oct 28, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

smiting is tricky to use as a monk cuz...everyone needs a healer or proto monk so yeah...unless you use smiter's boon with some damage reflecting/mitigation spells and you're the third monk on the team...then maybe you'll be able to use smiting.

also...using smiting on your bar is more forgivable when you're on a non-monk caster character...

but anyways...

[skill]Smiter's Boon[/skill]
[skill]Judge's Insight[/skill]
[skill]Smite Hex[/skill]
[skill]Smite Condition[/skill]
[skill]Reversal of Damage[/skill]
[skill]Divine Boon[/skill]
e-management (i, personally prefer OoS)
[skill]Balthazar's Aura[/skill], recharge lowering spell or [skill]Rebirth[/skill]

I don't think monks should bring rez at all, but in PvE it's very helpful to bring Rebirth

i like this build because it buffs melee with Judge's and Balthazars, helps proto monk with smite hex & condition, and that although there is no direct damage, it heals for 109 with 10 DF for each indirect damaging spell

the boon monk is, of course, ancient, but the divine smiter's boon monk is very effective imho.

any variation is fine, as long as you have fun and feel effective.

SotiCoto · Oct 28, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Oddly enough, I tried something like the aforementioned build earlier... but it didn't really style me well. Afterall, with all the casting of hex and condition removal on allies I might as well have been playing a prot or heal.... which totally subtracts from the point here: that I'm not very good at that sorta stuff. I prefer to be directing my attacks AT the enemy and concentrating on the battle rather than the health-bars of my party (which might well be why I don't often play as my Monk for anything other than farming).

A few questions though...

#1. What does "OoS" stand for? I don't do abbreviations... and last I checked there wasn't a skill just called "OoS".

#2. Monks not bringing Rez? What kinda crazyweird advice is that? I'm sure you must have your reasons, but that is like asking a Warrior not to bring a Shield, an Assassin not to bring Attack Skills or a Mesmer not to bring Interrupts. Generally I ONLY bring Resurrect skills on Monks and Ritualists (occasionally Paragon heroes) as they're much better at using them.
But yeah.... Rebirth IS the resurrect of choice for my Monk. I still don't know why you'd say such an odd thing.

.... To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be having fun and feeling effective unless I'm doing things that Monks really aren't meant to do: i.e. causing vast amounts of damage to the enemy. I tend to die if I start trying to heal people because I can't pay attention to the party's health-bars AND the battle at the same time.

Spazzer · Oct 28, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Dual Booning is my current favorite flavor of smiting build.

- Divine Boon
- Smiter's Boon
- Reversal of Damage
- Smite Condition
- Smite Hex
- Castigation Signet

Two slots left for an elite and a res. For me, that's Signet of Judgement and Death Pact Signet.

Monique · Oct 28, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Oddly enough, I tried something like the aforementioned build earlier... but it didn't really style me well. Afterall, with all the casting of hex and condition removal on allies I might as well have been playing a prot or heal.... which totally subtracts from the point here: that I'm not very good at that sorta stuff. I prefer to be directing my attacks AT the enemy and concentrating on the battle rather than the health-bars of my party (which might well be why I don't often play as my Monk for anything other than farming).

A few questions though...

#1. What does "OoS" stand for? I don't do abbreviations... and last I checked there wasn't a skill just called "OoS".

#2. Monks not bringing Rez? What kinda crazyweird advice is that? I'm sure you must have your reasons, but that is like asking a Warrior not to bring a Shield, an Assassin not to bring Attack Skills or a Mesmer not to bring Interrupts. Generally I ONLY bring Resurrect skills on Monks and Ritualists (occasionally Paragon heroes) as they're much better at using them.
But yeah.... Rebirth IS the resurrect of choice for my Monk. I still don't know why you'd say such an odd thing.

.... To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be having fun and feeling effective unless I'm doing things that Monks really aren't meant to do: i.e. causing vast amounts of damage to the enemy. I tend to die if I start trying to heal people because I can't pay attention to the party's health-bars AND the battle at the same time.

Offering of Spirit~!

Melody Cross · Oct 28, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Glyph of Renewal
Kirin's Wrath
Scourge Healing
Scourge Enchantment
Spear of Light
GoLE
Open
Rez

For a pure offensive pressure build, AoE spam can get pretty twisted. GoLE helps manage Scourge spamming, which makes this something of an anti-monk in PvE, as they will heal other NPCs (and themselves) to death. reserve your elite glyph (glyph of renewal) for Krinn's. That way its up 5 seconds out of 10.

Lots of 2-second cast spells makes the build fragile against interrupt spam. Preffereable in a hex overload build to keep scourges up over a long haul.

Good Luck

GGs

Burst Cancel · Oct 28, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Monks don't bring res because their job is to make sure the people who are alive stay that way. Ressing dead party members is always someone else's responsibility. Another reason is because everyone but monks can free space on their bar for a res. BTW, a lot of warriors don't bring shields - they use hammers.

If you want to do massive amounts of damage without Smite Condition/Hex, you might as well give up smiting right now.

Turbobusa · Oct 28, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Every monk but smiters. smiters are just like any other midliner, they should have a room for a res.

horseradish · Oct 28, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Oddly enough, I tried something like the aforementioned build earlier... but it didn't really style me well. Afterall, with all the casting of hex and condition removal on allies I might as well have been playing a prot or heal.... which totally subtracts from the point here: that I'm not very good at that sorta stuff. I prefer to be directing my attacks AT the enemy and concentrating on the battle rather than the health-bars of my party (which might well be why I don't often play as my Monk for anything other than farming).

This build isn't meant to be a gimmick proto monk or healer (actually, now that i think about it, it's kind of a mix of all three

), but if you prefer to be directing attack at the enemy, then you might as well be an ele, or one of those crazy smiting assassins that are so prevalent in PvP.

Quote:

A few questions though...

#1. What does "OoS" stand for? I don't do abbreviations... and last I checked there wasn't a skill just called "OoS".

AHAHAHA Oos

Quote:

#2. Monks not bringing Rez? What kinda crazyweird advice is that? I'm sure you must have your reasons, but that is like asking a Warrior not to bring a Shield, an Assassin not to bring Attack Skills or a Mesmer not to bring Interrupts. Generally I ONLY bring Resurrect skills on Monks and Ritualists (occasionally Paragon heroes) as they're much better at using them.
But yeah.... Rebirth IS the resurrect of choice for my Monk. I still don't know why you'd say such an odd thing.

when i monk, i don't bring rez, cuz i'm busy keeping ever1 else alive...but Turbobusa is right. the smiter's role isn't as demanding as a prot/heal monk's, so a rez won't hurt

Quote:

.... To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be having fun and feeling effective unless I'm doing things that Monks really aren't meant to do: i.e. causing vast amounts of damage to the enemy. I tend to die if I start trying to heal people because I can't pay attention to the party's health-bars AND the battle at the same time.

there's always /mesmer for the signet build...but it's more powerful with a primary mesmer.

it's true that a lot of direct damaging spells in the smiting line are...well....weak, so...can't really help you there, but there's always Ray of Judgement

:/

Grenths Entropy · Oct 28, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Have a go at this AoE Smiter its more of a PvP build but if u take a war, sin or derv in ur group its a load of fun and different :P
here you go

Spazzer · Oct 29, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Monks don't bring res because their job is to make sure the people who are alive stay that way. Ressing dead party members is always someone else's responsibility. Another reason is because everyone but monks can free space on their bar for a res.

Smiter. PvE. Both of those alone tell me to bring a res.

Not trying to single you out here. In PvE missions (outside of EotN), it's very important that every member of the party make room on their bar for a hard res whenever possible. In eotn, this is not as important since everywhere has a res shrine.

In Hard Mode, it's doubly important to have some Death Penalty control. For those without without money to buy consummables, Death Pact Signet is a very smart choice.

Burst Cancel · Oct 29, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Since everyone seems to be jumping on that one statement, let me make a clarification:

1) That statement was made in direct response to SotiCoto's question #2 above, which essentially states that monks not bringing res is stupid. This assertion is without merit.
2) When I say "Monk", I'm thinking backliners. I acknowledge that this is a thread about smiting; accordingly, my use of "monk" was too narrow in this context.

Backliners do not bring res, because they don't have the time, the energy, or the skill slot to waste on that res. There are any number of other characters that can carry hard resses. You can get eles to go E/Mo for your hard res, or put deathpact on your N/Rt or Rt/*, or Signet of Return on your paragon.

I have no problems going into areas with one or no hard res. If I go through 6 res sigs with no morale boost, something else is really wrong that has absolutely nothing to do with whether I brought a res or not.

Draginvry · Oct 29, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

I'm not sure I'm going to be having fun and feeling effective unless I'm doing things that Monks really aren't meant to do: i.e. causing vast amounts of damage to the enemy.

In that case, you may want to try my N/Mo build, which goes something like this:

[skill]vampiric gaze[/skill][skill]life siphon[/skill][skill]banish[/skill][skill]spear of light[/skill][skill]bane signet[/skill][skill]blood renewal[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill]

It's no elementalist, but you can keep up a constant stream of armor-ignoring damage, and it uses smiting. If you have EoTN, replace Lost Souls with Castigation Signet, or elite of choice.

Batou of Nine · Oct 29, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

the basic Signet Spammer?... fun to play, not ultra effective, but usable and pretty much an easy to use, no-brainer build::

[skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill][skill]Signet of Judgment[/skill][skill]Bane Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Rage[/skill] Castigation Signet (Last 3 skills, highly optional)

Possible options:
Smite Condition [skill]Spear of Light[/skill][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Reversal of Damage[/skill][skill]Balthazar's Aura[/skill][skill]Symbol of Wrath[/skill][skill]Strength of Honor[/skill][skill]Purge Signet[/skill] >>>> And the list goes on and on...

Anyway, i play this when im out in normal mode with only H/H and it works fairly well, and i always change around to different variants... not super AoE, but SoJ is fairly spammable for the AoE damage, and any other optional skills can add to that effect...

just an idea for ya

cheers!

SotiCoto · Oct 29, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Monks don't bring res because their job is to make sure the people who are alive stay that way. Ressing dead party members is always someone else's responsibility. Another reason is because everyone but monks can free space on their bar for a res.

I don't mean to contradict you here.... but I don't get it.
Monks' attention is on the health-bars of the party... right? Most everyone else will have their attention on the enemy... which isn't conducive to resurrecting team-mates.
Likewise for the other point, I've had several arguments on the Assassin board due to my refusal to bring a Res Sig because firstly I never notice my party-members dying until half of them are dead (my attention is 100% focused on the enemies around me and my own health-bar) and secondly because I can NEVER spare a skill-slot.... as opposed to my Monk, who always has space for a Res if she uses any ordinary build (Heal, Protect, Anti-Condition, Anti-Hex, Energy-Management => up to 3 optional).

So who else is supposed to be doing the resurrecting?
The only other options I can think of are Minion Masters and Spirit Spammers... since everyone else will be focused directly on doing damage to the enemy, interfering in their attack and thus making the Monk's job easier by proxy. I know that Olias is always the first on a resurrect when I have him set N/Mo or N/Rt.

Besides... if the rest of the party (including the second and optional third monk) can't keep themselves stable and alive for a few seconds then surely something is wrong with them.

Quote:

If you want to do massive amounts of damage without Smite Condition/Hex, you might as well give up smiting right now.

I suppose you're right there.... but it doesn't explain what I SHOULD do. I'm just not that good at maintaining team-mates, irrespective of whether with Smiting, Protecting or Healing skills. My main char is a Sin... and I have the mind-set of a spike-killer on a Red Bull overdose. I certainly can't just 55 my way through the whole game. o_0;

Pick Me · Oct 29, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Have you tried bonding?

There are no pure smiting builds that does okay AoE, as most of the AoE spells deal damage where you cast.

Try this:

[skill]signet of judgment[/skill][skill]bane signet[/skill][skill]holy strike[/skill][skill]essence bond[/skill][skill]stonesoul strike[/skill][skill]reversal of damage[/skill][skill]watchful spirit[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

LightningHell · Oct 29, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I don't mean to contradict you here.... but I don't get it.
Monks' attention is on the health-bars of the party... right? Most everyone else will have their attention on the enemy... which isn't conducive to resurrecting team-mates.
Likewise for the other point, I've had several arguments on the Assassin board due to my refusal to bring a Res Sig because firstly I never notice my party-members dying until half of them are dead (my attention is 100% focused on the enemies around me and my own health-bar) and secondly because I can NEVER spare a skill-slot.... as opposed to my Monk, who always has space for a Res if she uses any ordinary build (Heal, Protect, Anti-Condition, Anti-Hex, Energy-Management => up to 3 optional).

Your monk apparently has a very different build to the template monk then...

(Your statement that monks keep their eyes on the health bars is fail.)

Anyway. As a Monk, in battle, you are - have to be - having to be constantly be able to repair any damage that is taken by party members. What happens when you take 6s to Resurrection Chant that dead Warrior? Not only will your party be endangered, you'd probably be dead for going too far out as well. Conversely, caster classes can stop for three seconds to cast a Ressig, or Glyphsac/Reschant, or Death Pact Signet that dead Warrior. While the frontline ressing generally means a short period of no damage, at least the team isn't dying while you're ressing. (I'd also like to ask you...who do you think is keeping your party alive, apart from you, and a possible/probable second monk? While it is generally true for lower-level NM PvE that a Monk ressing will not kill anybody, in higher levels it is too risky. Basic defensive tactics such as kiting does only so much.)

And if you're playing as frontline and start to not notice your party...

...Play GW better imo?

Tab · Oct 29, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Your monk apparently has a very different build to the template monk then...

(Your statement that monks keep their eyes on the health bars is fail.)

Anyway. As a Monk, in battle, you are - have to be - having to be constantly be able to repair any damage that is taken by party members. What happens when you take 6s to Resurrection Chant that dead Warrior? Not only will your party be endangered, you'd probably be dead for going too far out as well. Conversely, caster classes can stop for three seconds to cast a Ressig, or Glyphsac/Reschant, or Death Pact Signet that dead Warrior. While the frontline ressing generally means a short period of no damage, at least the team isn't dying while you're ressing. (I'd also like to ask you...who do you think is keeping your party alive, apart from you, and a possible/probable second monk? While it is generally true for lower-level NM PvE that a Monk ressing will not kill anybody, in higher levels it is too risky. Basic defensive tactics such as kiting does only so much.)

And if you're playing as frontline and start to not notice your party...

...Play GW better imo?

QFT.
If you don't notice deaths untill a half wipe due to the complexity of c-spacing, well...

eloc_jcg · Oct 29, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

PM Adam Nuitari, he's very experienced at Smiting Monks.