Curse

fenix · Oct 10, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

That... is effectively what I'm already saying.
You have this freakishly bizarre habit of calling me wrong and then agreeing with me. Seriously... you should see a doctor about that.
I am Anti Res-Sig, Pro Hard-Res. .... But when it comes down to it, Sunspear Rebirth is still better than standard Res Sig.
Disagree?
I doubt it somehow.

Few and far between.... and believe it or not, it isn't just boss groups that can cause trouble. In any case, they certainly aren't frequent enough to make a Res Sig a better option than Hard Res.... Not by a long shot. Why the heck would I want to go fighting with a reduced party through hoardes of monsters, risking further death, just to try and fight a boss (risking even further death) to kill it, get a res sig recharge to then go back and resurrect a fallen party member? It is bloody stupid when a Hard Res could be used instead.... whether a bit slower or not.

Fast it is... yes. That would be why I bring Res Sig on even Monk Heroes in the Abaddon battle... BUT, that is only because morale boosts come on a very regular basis there. They don't in most places. And besides, there are other perfectly viable and even reasonably quick resurrects around.

So bring it if you're not using 3 other PvE skills, and don't if you are! Problem solved... obviously. Then again, I don't think I could readily justify bringing enough other PvE skills to boot off Sunspear Rebirth in most situations.

Res Sig is bad in PvE... and if you think it isn't, that is because YOU are bad... basically.

[ Am I trying to demonstrate some higher value to my opinion by contradicting you? No. I'm just demonstrating in my own particular way that you're only calling me bad because you cannot come up with any viable, objective criticism against me, which is entirely your own failure. I lol @ your opinion. ]

Wall of fail...I mean text. Anyway, you are wrong. Bringing all Hard Res skills is terrible, you only need AT MOST 2, as they are known to be slow casting, and almost all of them res the target with a disadvantage (low HP, low energy, etc). Res Sig on the other hand is FULL health, and 25% energy. Sure, the energy is low, but the health is full. It's also 3 second cast. If you have all Hard Res skills, the res speed will be slow, whereas Res Sig is faster, and better.

Res Sig is almost the best skill you can possibly bring, as it can be used to res the person/hero with the hard res, which will save a team. And due to the fact that they're res with full HP, they can survive any immediate danger, enough to retreat.

Even so, the fact that you think that Res Sig is bad in PvE, shows that you are a bad player. Not that I hadn't already assumed that through your whine threads all over guru.

terminus123 · Oct 10, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

ummm... noticed I said rez skill not rez sig, meaning any kind of rezzing skill for rebirth to sig, to flesh of my flesh, etc.... but the trouble I'm having here is mainly the defenisve/survival skills and attribute implementing of a deadley orientated assassin.

MercenaryK · Oct 11, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Wall of fail...I mean text. Anyway, you are wrong. Bringing all Hard Res skills is terrible, you only need AT MOST 2, as they are known to be slow casting, and almost all of them res the target with a disadvantage (low HP, low energy, etc). Res Sig on the other hand is FULL health, and 25% energy. Sure, the energy is low, but the health is full. It's also 3 second cast. If you have all Hard Res skills, the res speed will be slow, whereas Res Sig is faster, and better.

Res Sig is almost the best skill you can possibly bring, as it can be used to res the person/hero with the hard res, which will save a team. And due to the fact that they're res with full HP, they can survive any immediate danger, enough to retreat.

Even so, the fact that you think that Res Sig is bad in PvE, shows that you are a bad player. Not that I hadn't already assumed that through your whine threads all over guru.

I don't know..... 25% energy of 25 energy is 6.25, 25% energy of 50 is 12.25, 25% energy of 75 is 18.25.. (GW rounds down), and full life can be useful, but having energy really helps too. Some Hard Rez's provide more than 25% energy, some times the energy of the caster. Professions that rely on energy more so than health... I mean come on, you can rez with full life, but be utter useless without energy, might as well have stayed dead.

Not saying Rez Sig is ENTIRELY useless, but close to useless thanks to Sunspear Rez Sig, and better rez skills out there, I wouldn't call some one a bad player for not liking rez sig.

Whether you're in PvP or PvE (not sure which you're taking in to consideration) having a skill knocked out until a Moral Boost does suck if Moral Boosts aren't highly available.

Risus · Oct 12, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/...eadly_Arts_Sin
Before it gets nerfed.

... you can always throw on Restful Breeze if you really need a heal.

I hate that build. I have a waaay better build without SoJ and waaay better energy management, and deep wound. And BIIG tank. (+80 armor perm if i want). But to answer what I THINK is the question...Deadly Arts pwns daggers.

Bowstring Badass · Oct 12, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Res Sig on the other hand is FULL health, and 25% energy. Sure, the energy is low, but the health is full.

.

The energy is not low if it is a monk and they die in their lowest energy set equipped. (then swapping to the medium when ressed).

moriz · Oct 12, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

well, considering that most hard rezzes rez you with basically zero energy, i think i'll go with the 25% from rez sig.

not to mention, you shouldn't be dying this much in pve anyways. if you do, either you need to play better or get better builds.

as for deadly arts.... it was originally designed as the offensive assistance skill tree, either directly aiding the assassin or his team. unfortunately, the retard who designed the assassin tried to stick a profession that requires 12 skill slots to fully utilize them, into a game that restricts you to 8 skills.

the only way for deadly arts to see widespread play was to buff it into the stratosphere, which ironically turns it into another dagger mastery skill tree, just with different names and doesn't require daggers.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risus

I hate that build. I have a waaay better build without SoJ and waaay better energy management, and deep wound. And BIIG tank. (+80 armor perm if i want). But to answer what I THINK is the question...Deadly Arts pwns daggers.

that build also has a deepwound.

by the way, you know, you either post your own, or you don't post at all.

Shuuda · Oct 12, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

that build also has a deepwound.

by the way, you know, you either post your own, or you don't post at all.

QFT, I'd like to see this so called better build of yours.

jesh · Oct 16, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

I can tell you already he just threw in Assassin's Promise and Feigned Neutrality. Possibly Impale.. but that would require a dual attack. Vampiric Assault works but that requires melee range, right?

Saphatorael · Oct 16, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Ohnoez! Team-member died... *Res Sig*
Ok. They back now!
Ohnoez! Now monk died and nobody else has res!

Really. It might be an extreme example... but Res Sig = Teh Fail in PvE.
At the VERY LEAST you should be using Sunspear Rebirth Signet instead (the whole rebirthing at your location function makes it a bit more viable). Only in places with regular res-sig recharge like the Factions / Nightfall final boss battles or the GW:EN dungeons is it really worth bringing.

I just like how you play a sin, and when a mid/backliner dies, you res them and let them teleport right to your frontline position. That's why they die again right after you res. At least Res Sig won't put them in a pinch, even with low energy (which can be avoided through weapon swapping)

Unless you're playing your leet blood magic sin, of course, then Sunspear Rebirth Sig > Res Sig indeed.

Yanman.be · Oct 16, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Saphatorael, he doesn't use blood magic, he has ownage illusion magic build such as Illusionairy Weaponry....O wait, that also makes him frontline >.>

azizul1975 · Oct 24, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

well noob sin question here. does critical strike attribute affect deadly art skill in any way ? i know it affect the use of dagger skill, the more critical strike point, the more chance u hit a critical strike with dagger. but with deadly art, does critical strike matter?

azizul1975 · Oct 24, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

..and to add, with deadly art, i think i saw few sins with staff.....

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 25, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

[skill]Death pact Signet[/skill]

Why is the rit rez in here? In a topic about Deadly Arts and on a sin board?
Maybey I missed something in the posts but it just seems out of place.

SotiCoto · Oct 26, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

Alex: dparadox will not be nerfed, and i doubt anything else will, sorry.

Roflz on that.

[And I return to a thread that got me banned before.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

I just like how you play a sin, and when a mid/backliner dies, you res them and let them teleport right to your frontline position. That's why they die again right after you res. At least Res Sig won't put them in a pinch, even with low energy (which can be avoided through weapon swapping)

If the backliners are dying, the monks also on the backline res them.
If the monks are dying, the rest of the party is potentially in danger and I'm not going to be staying on the front line continuing to assassinate things unless there is a major threat on extremely low health right in front of me. Better to call for a retreat.
The ONLY reason an Assassin needs a Res is to prevent total party wipe in Missions and the like... and for that, either Rebirth skill has a major advantage over other Res skills in that it doesn't risk aggro and an immediate repeat death.
And only idiots / full tanks res from the front line anyway. Amazingly enough, I don't count myself among either.

Quote:

Unless you're playing your leet blood magic sin, of course, then Sunspear Rebirth Sig > Res Sig indeed.

I completed Shards of Orr, so naturally I'm not going to be doing that again.
What.... did you think that was a common occurrance for me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Saphatorael, he doesn't use blood magic, he has ownage illusion magic build such as Illusionairy Weaponry....O wait, that also makes him frontline >.>

Now now Yan... You know I only use the IW these days for Drunken Master Banana Scythe rampages.... for a laugh.
I am a CA+MS+DB convert.

Saphatorael · Oct 26, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

[And I return to a thread that got me banned before.]

Why don't you just stay away?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

If the backliners are dying, the monks also on the backline res them.
If the monks are dying, the rest of the party is potentially in danger and I'm not going to be staying on the front line continuing to assassinate things unless there is a major threat on extremely low health right in front of me. Better to call for a retreat.
The ONLY reason an Assassin needs a Res is to prevent total party wipe in Missions and the like... and for that, either Rebirth skill has a major advantage over other Res skills in that it doesn't risk aggro and an immediate repeat death.
And only idiots / full tanks res from the front line anyway. Amazingly enough, I don't count myself among either.

Wait, what? You let your monks die and then fix it by themselves whilst you run back, to do what? Sheesh, I just don't let monsters even get near my backline, if not through flagging. I bring enough passive defense for them to not mess up, I just steamroll through the mobs with a simple ms/db spam, seems to do the trick well enough.
Oh, and I always bring a res. It's dumb to let your very backbone of the party be busy with something else than keeping the rest of the party alive. Why do PvP monks (almost, but RA has so many bad monks) never bring res skills?

Quote:

I completed Shards of Orr, so naturally I'm not going to be doing that again.
What.... did you think that was a common occurrance for me?

Actually, I did. Try to figure out why.

RhanoctJocosa · Oct 26, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

1) Death Pact Sig + 30/-2 set.
2) Rez Sig.
3) Any form of res on a monk is stupid.
4) Don't listen to anything Soticoto says, seriously- he's probably one of the worst players to post on these forums.

To the OP: Deadly Arts are supposed to be, imo, a nice 'flavour' to the assassin in that you can make use of deadly poisons, traps, hexes etc. You typically can't mix Deadly Arts with Dagger Attacks (besides impale) 1) because of your attribute spread (need dagger + crit strikes) and 2) because you bar gets very crowded with snares, dagger attacks, ias. ims, etc.

SotiCoto · Oct 26, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

Why don't you just stay away?

Because I'm impervious to rhetoric. I have a point to make here still and I intend to make it.

Quote:

Wait, what? You let your monks die and then fix it by themselves whilst you run back, to do what?

Technically, I don't. I Assassinate things... usually the dangerous things first... so my monks tend not to die. And if they do die, it is not so much because I let them but because they let themselves. I watch the monsters; they watch the health-bars. If the monks have gone down then the rest of the party tend to be weakened as a result and goes on the defensive. If half the party goes down, the remainder of the party will tend to retreat to a safer position; not just me.
If I have Sunspear Rebirth then we can bring the monks back safely. If I don't and someone else does (or has normal Rebirth)... then likewise. If we don't have these things then we arrage a means of distracting the enemies so the monks can be resurrected.
Clear?

Quote:

Sheesh, I just don't let monsters even get near my backline, if not through flagging. I bring enough passive defense for them to not mess up, I just steamroll through the mobs with a simple ms/db spam, seems to do the trick well enough.

As do I, generally... and as I just said in fact. Why do you suppose I don't need the res at all? Most monsters aren't even a threat, rendering extra res signets a complete waste of skill-slots.

Quote:

Oh, and I always bring a res. It's dumb to let your very backbone of the party be busy with something else than keeping the rest of the party alive. Why do PvP monks (almost, but RA has so many bad monks) never bring res skills?

So you're saying that resurrects are the job of those who are fighting the enemies on the front-line? You're seriously saying that the folks up the front... the melee fighters.... the ones keeping the enemy threat down, killing them, and keeping the enemies FROM the back..... should be turning their backs to those same enemies to use resurrects while the backliners sit around healing each other?

Perhaps this is totally alien to you.... but the fewer the enemies, the less damage is done, the less healing is needed, and the more the backliners (who shouldn't be taking much damage anyway) are freed up to do things like res. The attention of the Monks is already on the other players, while the attention of the front-liners is on the enemy. Diverting that around both wastes time and leaves horrible vulnerabilities.
If Monks weren't supposed to be doing the res'ing... then why would the class have over half the resurrection skills in the game?

Quote:

Actually, I did. Try to figure out why.

As tempted as I am to give the really obvious answer, I'd rather not risk another ban in this thread just yet. Lets just say you probably assume the same of everyone else by default, which in this case is... amazingly enough... unjustified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

3) Any form of res on a monk is stupid.
4) Don't listen to anything Soticoto says, seriously- he's probably one of the worst players to post on these forums.

You seriously have a ban-wish, don't you? I take it you just don't like posting here but can't help yourself. Well frankly, I don't have the time for your asinine mewling and I don't expect anyone else does either. Go troll somewhere else.
I'll leave the criticism of your "advice" to everyone and anyone else.

Saphatorael · Oct 26, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Because I'm impervious to rhetoric. I have a point to make here still and I intend to make it.

Sure, if you want to go on, I won't stop you. But I will speak my mind as well.

Quote:

Technically, I don't. I Assassinate things... usually the dangerous things first... so my monks tend not to die. And if they do die, it is not so much because I let them but because they let themselves. I watch the monsters; they watch the health-bars. If the monks have gone down then the rest of the party tend to be weakened as a result and goes on the defensive. If half the party goes down, the remainder of the party will tend to retreat to a safer position; not just me.
If I have Sunspear Rebirth then we can bring the monks back safely. If I don't and someone else does (or has normal Rebirth)... then likewise. If we don't have these things then we arrage a means of distracting the enemies so the monks can be resurrected.
Clear?

The very fact that you brought it up to rant about it, must mean something. Maybe an inability to get a decent teambuild?

Quote:

As do I, generally. Did you think it was some sort of exclusive trick of yours? Why do you suppose I don't need the res at all? Most monsters aren't even a threat, rendering extra res signets a complete waste of skill-slots.

No, I didn't. Don't try to think for me, thanks. I hardly need the res, yes (especially in GW:EN, with all the res shrines). But if my backline gets spiked by a boss mob within the first 3 seconds, I need to get them up fast. And Signet of Return of my Paragon hero just isn't fast enough. The signet will be recharged anyways when the mob is down. What's wrong with having a few extra plans for when things don't go as expected? Changing 1 skill won't make your build 20x better, you know. All you really need is some way to start the ms/db spam quickly (a chain of 4 skills, for example Critical Agility, Golden Phoenix Strike, DB/MS, the rest can be used for survivability).

Quote:

So you're saying that resurrects are the job of those who are fighting the enemies on the front-line? You're seriously saying that the folks up the front... the melee fighters.... the ones keeping the enemy threat down, killing them, and keeping the enemies FROM the back..... should be turning their backs to those same enemies to use resurrects while the backliners sit around healing each other?

Perhaps this is totally alien to you.... but the fewer the enemies, the less damage is done, the less healing is needed, and the more the backliners (who shouldn't be taking much damage anyway) are freed up to do things like res.
If Monks weren't supposed to be doing the res'ing... then why would the class have over half the resurrection skills in the game?

... ever heard of midliners? Like, the guys that are not in front, but not in the back either. Yeh, I heard of them too, sometimes they even have a secondary with a res skill, zomg

Quote:

As tempted as I am to give the really obvious answer, I'd rather not risk another ban in this thread just yet. Lets just say you probably assume the same of everyone else by default, which in this case is... amazingly enough... unjustified.

Oh, please surprise me/us with your cunning rhetoric, you're doing GREAT so far <3

RhanoctJocosa · Oct 26, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Sorry to say, SotiCoto, but I'm not steering towards a ban. The bulk of my post was on topic and I was simply letting everyone know that you don't really know what you're talking about. If anyone should be banned it's you, again.

I've pretty much found a quote that summarises your worth to this forum- "If Monks weren't supposed to be doing the res'ing... then why would the class have over half the resurrection skills in the game?"

You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop posting and ruining these threads.

---------
Though this thread has steered somewhat off topic, I'd just like to say this again:
- Ressing should never be done by monks. In the time a monk spends ressing someone the party is extremely vulnerable to more deaths. They also, typically, need all 8 skills devoted to healing/protting.
- Only 1-2 hard resses should ever be in a team build. You want quick, efficient resses to get the party back up when under pressure and hard resses for when you wipe (PvE= Rebirth, etc.) or when you have the time to 'save' a Rez Sig. Again, never on monks.