Curse

cr00mz · Oct 14, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

how good is this bow, the main thing i think about is the -5 energy, the ranger doenst have many costly spells thanks to expertise, and also with a smaller energy pool it will regen quicker. I like the look of it, but is it good/bad? will you get in any situation like "crap, another wipe. If i had 5 more energy i would have made it"?

Stormlord Alex · Oct 14, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Bleh. -5 energy is pretty bad on a ranger, especially for +dmg on a bow - the puny damage increase really isn't worth not having Savage Shot available in a pinch.

cr00mz · Oct 14, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

i see what you mean, , interrupting a res or not or any other spell, thanks for input

iridescentfyre · Oct 14, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

In my opinion its not terrible to have -5 energy as long as you're smart about your energy use and have plenty of Expertise. More energy doesn't necessarily mean better energy management. Though personally I don't use it and don't think I'd ever choose to.

My main hangup on the Darksteel bow would be that its not a Recurve.

The Meth · Oct 14, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

It's really pretty complicated and depends mostly on the build you run. For example I love spamming the new (and incredibly unbalancing) pve skills. Usually using some combination of pain inverter, finish him, great dwarf weapon, or ebon battle standard of honor/wisdom. So for me I'm almost always on my zealous bow.

On the other hand if you aren't using multiple 10 energy skills you should be fine with it. As long as you aren't trying to do a 4-way attribute split your expertise should be high enough to keep your energy just fine assuming you pick energy efficient skills. If you find you run out of energy during battles look for alternative skills that use less. Things like Point Blank Shot instead of higher priced alternatives go a long way towards keeping energy high.

Overall -5 energy isn't really that much of a downer, its your energy management thats more important. Thats why leadership is overpowered and energy storage isn't.

iridescentfyre · Oct 15, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I would say 14 Expertise would not out of the question, so you hit the threshold for 10 energy skills costing 4.

anshin · Oct 15, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I haven't tried this but i think we should be able to change the "Sundering" mod if we can change it i will enjoy the bow much more.

tox_169 · Oct 16, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by anshin

I haven't tried this but i think we should be able to change the "Sundering" mod if we can change it i will enjoy the bow much more.

Nope, we can't change the bowstring. We can only modify the bowgrip, and can't salvage it afterwards (I think).

Come to think of it, it would have been more useful if they made the bowgrip the "fixed," unmoddable one (like +30hp, or +7 vs physical) and left the bowstrings free. That way, a zealous bowstring may be able to mitigate the -5 energy hit when used with certain builds.

And I would have preferred the "+15% damage, -10 armor (while attacking)" mod vs the -5 energy, as most rangers are at the backline anyway. With the hit to energy though, I'll only consider using the bow in Asura territory.

cr00mz · Oct 16, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

about bowstrings, isnt sundering ones like awesome? i know that sundering for melee weapons sell for quite alot (mayb overpriced i dont know) wouldnt a sundering be good for a ranger aswell? so he does more damage

Karia Mirniman · Oct 16, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I think it is second rate compared to the sword or staff. If it had been a short bow then I could have used it. As a long bow, what is it good for other than to pull and it will not help a condition attack.

iridescentfyre · Oct 16, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr00mz

about bowstrings, isnt sundering ones like awesome? i know that sundering for melee weapons sell for quite alot (mayb overpriced i dont know) wouldnt a sundering be good for a ranger aswell? so he does more damage

I'm always nervous to bring these things up because it usually degenerates the thread into a Vampiric vs. Sundering debate, but since you asked..

In Guild Wars, the player-determined market price of an item doesn't necessarily reflect its worth as a mod. Sundering is a perfect example of a mediocre mod whose price is way out of proportion to its usefulness. Sundering is expensive because no one bothers to learn about how it works and compare it to others. I'll leave it at that.

Div · Oct 17, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

How often as a ranger will you be under 50% health anyways since you're usually the farthest one back? 15^50 is basically like 15 always for PvE rangers.

distilledwill · Oct 17, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Ive always thought 15^50 is an excellent mod as if i were to drop below 50% health, probably my main concern would be healing at that point anyway, rather than dealing damage.

To the OP: I'd say that -5 energy isnt too much of a hit, if you can manage your energy well, have enough in expertise and maybe have a higher energy bow for situations where you've burnt out and need a quick 10e for a savage shot.

Gardar · Oct 19, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

I'd never use a -5 energy on a bow, since you really need your energy when you're a ranger and cant afford to spend much in expertiese.

Learned Bowmore · Oct 19, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I have been loving this bow with my glass arrows high DPS build. I didn't even notice the -5 energy until I read this thread. With 14 expertise and low E skills, I never run out of energy.

Magnus_1 · Oct 20, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr00mz

about bowstrings, isnt sundering ones like awesome? i know that sundering for melee weapons sell for quite alot (mayb overpriced i dont know) wouldnt a sundering be good for a ranger aswell? so he does more damage

I don't mean to add any fuel to a Sundering vs. Vampiric debate, but my personal experience has been that Vampiric mods are superior.

I used my warrior to conduct a test with a vampiric sword and a sundering sword (all other things were equal - i.e. no skills, same 15^50 mods). Using the Master of Damage (or whatever he's called), I found that, on average, a Vampiric sword did roughly 200 more damage over the course of 3 minutes than a Sundering sword. So that comes out to slightly less that 1 dmg per second with a Sundering sword. The results for the 5 second averages were marginally better with the Vampiric weapon; the only major difference was that the critical hit with Sundering did 7 more damage than a critical hit with a Vampiric weapon.

This is by no means a definitive scientific study (I only did 3 tests per weapon), but I feel that vampiric is better. One thing I noticed about the Sundering is that the critical hits with armor penetration don't really add that much more damage (and what are the chances of getting a critical AND having the Sundering?). Since landing critical hits is not something that you can predict, the more reliable, slightly higher average dps of the Vampiric weapon mod wins in my book.

Anyways, just food for thought.

EDIT: Yes, I realize this is a ranger forum. I only conducted tests with my warrior though; the principle will remain the same across all weapons.

Stormlord Alex · Oct 20, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus_1

EDIT: Yes, I realize this is a ranger forum. I only conducted tests with my warrior though; the principle will remain the same across all weapons.

Bleh, sundering's even worse on a bow though - there's a lot of builds (standard BA or Cripshot - two of the best builds out there - for example) that run lower Marksmanship, and so wouldn't get a very big damage increase at all from sundering; then Rangers like having condition lengthening mods moreso than other classes - I regularly whip out Silencing, Poisonous and Crippling bows.

Darkpower Alchemist · Oct 21, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Sundering on a bow only has one hope. Sloth hunter+Savage. Even then, sundering isn't really ideal for the overall ranger's effectiveness. Vamp or elemental is where it's at,imo. Condition strings are nice for PvE, since few monster types have condition removal.

As for the -5e. I have never had real issues unless I use a heavy energy build, which then a 15%^50% would be better.

Konrow · Oct 21, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

i always stay away from -5e. even tho skill cost is lessened by expertise, energy is still very valuable for a ranger. And for sundering: never use it, and never intend to as there are many better mods like vampiric, shocking, etc.

cr00mz · Oct 21, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

are the elemental strings good to use even if you dont have ele for secondary to use with the conjures?