Curse

elektra_lucia · Oct 27, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

To be honest, you would be better with healers boon hero if you can micro it. Certainly not two hero monks. Better to keep the other's for damage or such. Best defence is a good offence and all that.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...20#post3258620
These threads are as bad as each other. No matter how much advice you give to people, not to bring a ress, they won't accept it. Some will just keep bringing ress, some will just keep bringing heal breeze.

zwei2stein · Oct 28, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

This is perhaps the most cogent argument I've heard for why having two hybrid monks is a good idea. (Usually the "argument" in favor of hybrids sounds more like: "Hyrrid is the meta LOL stoopid NOOB go uninstall QQQQQ!!") However, it's also an equally strong argument against running a single hybrid. What do you do when your counterpart isn't another hybrid, but rather Mhenlo, or Redemptor Karl (ung!), or a PUG monk who can't/won't go hybrid with you? I think you'd want to avoid the situation where you have 1 & 1/2 bars dedicated to either heal or prot and only 1/2 a bar dedicated to the other. You're going to end up burning through your energy pulling double duty on whatever your counterpart didn't spec, and probably doing a poor job at it due to a short supply of recharged skills (which is, in turn, due to not having enough skill slots dedicated to the task).

I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work? My opinion on this issue is that the performance gap between damage-dealing heroes and damage-dealing hench is much bigger than the gap between monk (or monk-replacement) heroes and monk hench. So, I try to make do with two hench as often as I can. And, when I can't, I try to make do with 1 hench and a 1 hero specced to specialize in whatever the hench is not.

Yes, it is still worth it.

for pugs, that pug would still be better off than standart duo healer situation. also, you are unlikely having to do twice as much in attribute that your coleague didnt spec due to nature of fact that you can fulfill role of either side of monking without much strain.

you still gain doubling your monkage in attribute you both specced, but when it comes to attribute only you specced, you are in no reall disadvatange over pure heal/pure prot approach.

for heroes, it is harder, unless you H/F /use heroes with one friend/. I would not use hero monk at all if possible, tbh, but rather pack some heroes with "duality-concept-aware" build. as you said, when henching, you miss damage more than defence, but heroes can bring both to table, so its silly to use pure defensive hero like monk. with some wards and some weakness on enemies, your hench monk can handle a LOT.

only case you want to run hero monk is vanquishing 4/6 man areas, where you do want hybrid because of limited party slots.

matti90 · Oct 28, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

There's no such thing as a skilled healer.

stfu plz.......

isamu kurosawa · Oct 28, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by matti90

stfu plz.......

not a good idea telling someone to stfu when they are speaknig the truth.

Tab · Oct 28, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by matti90

stfu plz.......

...

elektra_lucia · Oct 28, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Healers that stand in AOE are less skilled than those that do not.
Healers that under and over heal are less skilled than those that do not.
Healers that use more energy without a positive outcome are better than those who do not use so much energy.
Healers that take an hour to respond and can not infuse are less skilled than those which are fast.

It goes on and on, you're wrong. Get over it.

Quote:

not a good idea telling someone to stfu when they are speaknig the truth.

I wasn't aware he did that.

Tab · Oct 28, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Not really. He's pretty much right in that it takes almost no skill to watch red bars and heal when they go down.

elektra_lucia · Oct 28, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

Not really. He's pretty much right in that it takes almost no skill to watch red bars and heal when they go down.

Sure, but a healer isn't meant to just watch red bars and top them up when they go down. You're a bad monk if you just do that... That's just the same as saying being a warrior takes no skill because you just press C and hit things. If you play the profession really bad, then yes it won't take much skill to do that.

Tab · Oct 28, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

What else can a pure healing bar do apart from watch red bars? Preprot with breeze?
Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard.

elektra_lucia · Oct 28, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Go play heal monk and find out. It sounds like you haven't played one before.

Quote:

Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard.

That sounds rather like protecting, looking to see who is under attack. Oh well, guess it takes no skill when the healer does it

. Have fun infusing by looking at red bars <3.

Tristan lol · Oct 28, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

No point in bringing healing breeze for most typical monking jobs because spike heals are just more useful. Still, healing breeze sees a lot of use on flagrunners and other splitters in GvG. You don't need a high healing spec for it to do what it's intended to do, and in certain situations it is more useful than non-monk class self-heals. The irony is that when GvG elitists pour casual scorn on skills like this, they suddenly wind up having utility in unexpected places.

Snow Bunny · Oct 28, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

What else can a pure healing bar do apart from watch red bars? Preprot with breeze?
Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard.

If breeze had either decreased energy or some other mechanic beneficial to it I'd totally take it as a pre-prot.

Stormlord Alex · Oct 28, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Go play heal monk and find out. It sounds like you haven't played one before.

Neither have you from the sound of it.
Go on, enlighten us - what can a pure Healer do besides push red bars up (and, with GW:EN, have a stab at removing conditions/hexes)?

Tarzanboy · Oct 28, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If breeze had either decreased energy or some other mechanic beneficial to it I'd totally take it as a pre-prot.

OMG! The devs were listening! [skill]watchful healing[/skill] FTW!
Wait, it cut the healing in half.
Well it could be used as a cover enchant for Mending!

Limited bar space + over priced + limited healing + enchantment stripping + better skills to put into a bar = dead skill.

Cheers,
TB

Tarzanboy · Oct 28, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Neither have you from the sound of it.
Go on, enlighten us - what can a pure Healer do besides push red bars up (and, with GW:EN, have a stab at removing conditions/hexes)?

He can kite!
He can strafe!
He can wand!
He can flex!
He can keep the troops entertained while res chant cycles!

Cheers,
TB

elektra_lucia · Oct 28, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

He can put heal seed on the wrong person.
He can infuse the wrong person or too late.
He can over heal people.
He can under heal them.
He can stand in AOE.
He can fake cast.
He can cast normal, and get interupted.
He can pre veil well!
He can veil badly!
He can look at where everyone is, to see if they will spike. Who they spike, or at what time they will spike.
He can watch a mesmer for diversion.
He can watch another player to see if an interupt is charged.
Slower spells on healer, make it easier to be interupted.
He can fake cast so power block doesn't hit him.
He can change weapon to +10 vs X when X hits him.
He can draw the wrong conditions!
He can be delayed about drawing dazed.
He can watch red bars and not see diversion is comming, shame, or an interupt

.
He can tell team to pull out when low energy, or manage energy well enough to 'push in'.
He can kite all match, and the moment he stops it will be too cast then gets interrupted, or he can kite, stop, wait a bit and then cast.

TheLichMonky · Oct 28, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

He can put heal seed on the wrong person.
He can infuse the wrong person or too late.
He can over heal people.
He can under heal them.
He can stand in AOE.
He can fake cast.
He can cast normal, and get interupted.
He can pre veil well!
He can veil badly!
He can look at where everyone is, to see if they will spike. Who they spike, or at what time they will spike.
He can watch a mesmer for diversion.
He can watch another player to see if an interupt is charged.
Slower spells on healer, make it easier to be interupted.
He can fake cast so power block doesn't hit him.
He can change weapon to +10 vs X when X hits him.
He can draw the wrong conditions!
He can be delayed about drawing dazed.
He can watch red bars and not see diversion is comming, shame, or an interupt

.
He can tell team to pull out when low energy, or manage energy well enough to 'push in'.
He can kite all match, and the moment he stops it will be too cast then gets interrupted, or he can kite, stop, wait a bit and then cast.

And you have a better chance of a hero doing that than an actual player

Burst Cancel · Oct 28, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

All of the things you are listing are generic player skill that have essentially nothing to do with playing a healer. Battlefield awareness is something all good players have, regardless of the position they are playing. Weapon-swapping isn't profession-specific. Baiting interrupts with fake casts isn't monk specific either. Over/underheal is a problem for any monk, as is condition/hex removal, emgt, etc.

The point is, you're answering the question literally while ignoring what the question is actually trying to highlight: making red bars go up in and of itself is generally not a skill-based activity. You see red bar go down, you make it go back up.

There's no point in discussing things in a hyper-literal, nitpicky fashion, especially on an internet forum. What you're basically doing is narrowing the issue down to something that is only tangentially related (overall player skill vs. *healing* skill), and then trying to beat that - i.e., Straw Man.

Spazzer · Oct 29, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I would like Healing Breeze more if it was 1/4s cast and lasted longer.

elektra_lucia · Oct 29, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

All of the things you are listing are generic player skill that have essentially nothing to do with playing a healer. Battlefield awareness is something all good players have, regardless of the position they are playing. Weapon-swapping isn't profession-specific. Baiting interrupts with fake casts isn't monk specific either. Over/underheal is a problem for any monk, as is condition/hex removal, emgt, etc.

The point is, you're answering the question literally while ignoring what the question is actually trying to highlight: making red bars go up in and of itself is generally not a skill-based activity. You see red bar go down, you make it go back up.

There's no point in discussing things in a hyper-literal, nitpicky fashion, especially on an internet forum. What you're basically doing is narrowing the issue down to something that is only tangentially related (overall player skill vs. *healing* skill), and then trying to beat that - i.e., Straw Man.

Nice post. Fail though (sorry). The argument was that playing healer takes no skill. Not compared to other professions. Playing healer takes no skill, period. Therefore it's wrong. It doesn't matter if I named everything which you'd do playing a warrior too. They're still skills to have.

Multiple professions deal with interrupts but that doesn't mean it's not worth while mentioning. Healer monk takes a lot of flack

.