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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06   #121
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
But going Prot + Heal on a monk is stupid. U want to max your potential.
You have got to be kidding. Hybrid monks are the most effective means of party support currently available.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26   #122
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Why is that? U want to have a Heal Party that has 40 healing and a PS for 14 seconds?

Specialization is better. Just take 1 monk Healing and the other goes Prot. PS can last 24 seconds for instance and HP will heal for like 85.

Splitting attribute points in too many attributes is bad for energy for monks. That is one of the reason why my monk can do WITHOUT e-management. Because the specialized skills are more effective at the same cost. Less often spamming skills = less energy needed.

And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine.

Max Divine, Max Healing OR Prot. Maybe take Glyph of Lesser Energy if you need it.

Last edited by Guildmaster Cain; Oct 27, 2007 at 12:31 PM // 12:31..
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed?
If your going prot, then gift of health.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:44 PM // 12:44   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
some stuff...
Eeehh, ok. Ok.
I was gonna reply to this but... Not worth the effort. I'm sure someone else will.
All I will say though... All that stuff about solo-healing 8-man areas?
Goes to show PvE is really easy, and really forgiving.

And Whirlwind - you're a fool.
I've played a healer, long in the distant past, while I was still bad at monking. It was easy. Energy wasn't a problem. If anyone can run themselves dry playing a Healing monk... they really need to uninstall, tbh.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52   #125
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Eeehh, ok. Ok.
I was gonna reply to this but... Not worth the effort. I'm sure someone else will.
All I will say though... All that stuff about solo-healing 8-man areas?
Goes to show PvE is really easy, and really forgiving.

And Whirlwind - you're a fool.
I've played a healer, long in the distant past, while I was still bad at monking. It was easy. Energy wasn't a problem. If anyone can run themselves dry playing a Healing monk... they really need to uninstall, tbh.
Wrong actually. One of the reasons heal is worse than prot is that it takes too much energy to spam heals.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Why is that? U want to have a Heal Party that has 40 healing and a PS for 14 seconds?

Specialization is better. Just take 1 monk Healing and the other goes Prot. PS can last 24 seconds for instance and HP will heal for like 85.

Splitting attribute points in too many attributes is bad for energy for monks. That is one of the reason why my monk can do WITHOUT e-management. Because the specialized skills are more effective at the same cost. Less often spamming skills = less energy needed.

And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine.
First, you shouldn't need prot spirit to last 24 seconds. second as a hybrid you'd take LoD not HP for a 65ish party heal (and if you have 2 hybrids thats x2). I play hybrid builds and have never needed to regen energy, hybrid builds are more effective on your energy supply as you can more capably deal with any threat rather than covering a problem with just another heal.

A hybrid monk that always calls for energy would do so even if they played a single att line because they are bad players, not because they play hybrid.

Last edited by isamu kurosawa; Oct 27, 2007 at 01:09 PM // 13:09..
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Wrong actually. One of the reasons heal is worse than prot is that it takes too much energy to spam heals.
I'm talking about spamming WoH and Kiss like the good little scrub I was
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02   #128
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I'm talking about spamming WoH and Kiss like the good little scrub I was
No Breeze? l2bnub
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04   #129
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Maximizing your potentional is NOT having skillbar that says "massive heal" just to fit "massive heal" slot in there.

What you dont understand /perhabs because you never tried it yourself/ is that you do gain more power because of versatility than you loose by reducing two attributes by one and two and putting rest to third.

Basic reason is because you are more able to sync with your similary specced coleague.

two simultanous prots lading on spiked target followed by one heal do same as two prots from prot monk and two heals from heal monk: as result your total pool of energy at monks is 5e ahead if you have hybrids.

its about rational use of energy. if your specialized monk is full and party needs straight heals, all he can do is waste energy on DF healing while healing monk burns trought it and gets headaches. similary, if you need protection and straight heals are mostly irrelevant, same happens in reverse. if you have hybrids, they both use moderate amound of energy and are both ready for next encounter faster because they regen in meantime.

its about worst case scenario where one monk is on ground and your remaining one can still take care of most stuff.

and most importantly: there is not enough of good stuff ot put on pure healing monk bar.

also, i.e. PS does NOT have to last longer than ~10s. prot is not attribute hungry. if will notice it quite soon when you start playing it: you do same job with 16 as with 12 in prot. there is no reason not to put points to healing and get some bars-go-up skills.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
No Breeze? l2bnub
Oooh, I was never that bad...
Well, I was untill I left Pre...
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10   #131
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Breeze was a fixture on my monk bars for around 6 months. Discuss.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Breeze was a fixture on my monk bars for around 6 months. Discuss.
and mending wasnt? lolololololololololol
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
It has good synergy with Dwayna's Kiss. Ofc that also does with all Prot spells. But going Prot + Heal on a monk is stupid. U want to max your potential.
So for a pure Healing monk, it is not a bad idea to bring Healing Breeze. Just dont spam it on everyone, cos it will drain your energy. But the same applies to PS and SB.

SoA and SB might prevent more damage if you are aggrod badly, but it doesnt prevent -10 degen. So in some cases it is much better to have HB.

In a versatile pure Healing monk build, HB definately should be there. Next to a Ress, Hex remover, Condition Remover, Partywide Heal, and massive Heal.
A Prot monk could have a build with the same abilities, except it cant have Partywide Heal, but Aegis instead for example. Which doesnt work against AoE elemental dmg.

Casting HB and Healing Seed is good for healing tanks, especially with 20% enchantment stuff. It is a set and forget, so you can spend energy on healing other partymembers.

I've played 1 year almost exclusively Healing, but now I am more exclusively Protection. HB is certainly good in specific conditions. So is Infuse. Now can we talk about really useless monk skills?

DONT start about Unyielding Aura, it is the most fun skill ever! Time to teach the noobs to listen to you...
It's stupid? Then how about you look up the spell gift of health? There's nothing stupid in it. Hybrid works well.

OH NOES DEGEN SO I MUST PUT HEALTH REGEN. This is your attitude to someone dying. How about let someone degen by 100 health, then heal them 100? That's better than wasting 10 energy on heal breeze.

Quote:
except it cant have Partywide Heal,
What is extinguish then?
Quote:
Next to a Ress
LOL. On a monk :'). Rofl!
Quote:
Condition Remover
Draw conditions if you have an RC .
Quote:
It is a set and forget, so you can spend energy on healing other partymembers.
Except heal breeze doesn't heal for much. It's crap. You will over heal, or under heal. What's with this 'tank' business. Warriors do a LOT of damage. You shouldn't be putting so much tanking crap on them and then 'setting and forgetting'. Unless for very very rare places. People say PVE is so much different to PVP. If the PVE'rs played it like PVP'ers, they would find themselves doing missions a lot quicker and dying a lot less.
Quote:
I've played 1 year almost exclusively Healing, but now I am more exclusively Protection. HB is certainly good in specific conditions. So is Infuse. Now can we talk about really useless monk skills?
And in this year of monking, you have learnt absolutely nothing. Good job. Heal breeze works nice against shatter enchant. Go play mesmer for a abit. You obviously don't realise all the counters to your bad builds.

It disgusts me that no matter how well it is explained to people, some just don't grasp the concept. Healing Breeze is BAD.

Quote:
And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine.
Want to do a 2v2? I monk with hybrid build, or I play melee.

I will give you 100k if you win (not a joke).
I will be given 500 gold if I win.
We play EXACTLY the same build for the melee player (unless of course you want to run dolyak sig and what not, then you can). We pick whatever monk bar we like.

Deal? :] If 500 gold is too much, I'm willing to lower it .

Last edited by elektra_lucia; Oct 27, 2007 at 03:37 PM // 15:37..
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_version2
and mending wasnt? lolololololololololol
The quest to get Mending was too hard for me
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
The quest to get Mending was too hard for me
Impossible! Blaspheme!
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54   #136
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I used to dislike healing breeze too. Costume Brawl made me sorta like it. :P Not that I have room in my usual skillbar for it though. Or the attributes to spend. ;x
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02   #137
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(reads title) People Hate Healing Breeze?!

(points at a group of 55hp Monks) whopps they use mystic regeneration :S
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Basic reason is because you are more able to sync with your similary specced coleague.

two simultanous prots lading on spiked target followed by one heal do same as two prots from prot monk and two heals from heal monk: as result your total pool of energy at monks is 5e ahead if you have hybrids.

its about rational use of energy. if your specialized monk is full and party needs straight heals, all he can do is waste energy on DF healing while healing monk burns trought it and gets headaches. similary, if you need protection and straight heals are mostly irrelevant, same happens in reverse. if you have hybrids, they both use moderate amound of energy and are both ready for next encounter faster because they regen in meantime.

its about worst case scenario where one monk is on ground and your remaining one can still take care of most stuff.
This is perhaps the most cogent argument I've heard for why having two hybrid monks is a good idea. (Usually the "argument" in favor of hybrids sounds more like: "Hyrrid is the meta LOL stoopid NOOB go uninstall QQQQQ!!") However, it's also an equally strong argument against running a single hybrid. What do you do when your counterpart isn't another hybrid, but rather Mhenlo, or Redemptor Karl (ung!), or a PUG monk who can't/won't go hybrid with you? I think you'd want to avoid the situation where you have 1 & 1/2 bars dedicated to either heal or prot and only 1/2 a bar dedicated to the other. You're going to end up burning through your energy pulling double duty on whatever your counterpart didn't spec, and probably doing a poor job at it due to a short supply of recharged skills (which is, in turn, due to not having enough skill slots dedicated to the task).

I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work? My opinion on this issue is that the performance gap between damage-dealing heroes and damage-dealing hench is much bigger than the gap between monk (or monk-replacement) heroes and monk hench. So, I try to make do with two hench as often as I can. And, when I can't, I try to make do with 1 hench and a 1 hero specced to specialize in whatever the hench is not.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52   #139
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H/H best way is to use heroes for damage, 1 hero for hybrid if you don't play a monk. 1 hero/yourself + the 2 hench monks should be more than enough to keep you alive in NM, if you can monk worth anything.

and since I play monk, 2 x SF and a mm = c+space mode

and if you use healing breeze outside of a 55 build, you need a brain tbh. if you have someone getting degen'ed out, that is why you should have a hex and a condition removal. shatter enchant > HB, and then you are getting degened again and you've wasted 10 energy. gg

oh and any hench can take care of spamming healing breeze or healing other, if you must have a monk doing so. alesia is the worst monk ever
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work?
Definitely not worth two slots, but definitely worth one slot IMO, just to get an LoD monk in your party.

I bring Ogden (LoD hybrid) on all my characters, and then Lina as the 2nd monk on my non-monk characters.
This way at least you can have one LoD monk in your party, and at the same time fill in the prot holes left by Lina's bar, namely Aegis, a hex remover, and a second condition remover.
I find Lina to be decent, except that she sometimes casts ZB too much and PS not enough. She's actually pretty good with SoA, SH, and Dismiss, but a little hit and miss with RoF. I'd rather deal with her though and leave my last 2 hero slots for damage dealers.

And no, Ogden does not pack Healing Breeze.
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