Curse

moriz · Nov 21, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

you can give sins 1 hp but able to do 600 damage on demand, and people will still use them. if you make the end result valuable enough, people will jump through whatever hoops it takes to use it.

the argument that "assassins assassinate" is utterly fail for that reason. GW is a highly tactical game that requires a lot of skill to master. sins on the other hand, skips through all that and allows an utter retard to compete on the same level of someone much more skilled. therefore, the assassin simply does not fit in the game.

as such, all sin builds should be nerfed to the level of the AoD shock assassin build to preserve game balance.

and just so you know: warriors are the deadliest melee character in the game, but require a lot of skill to play to full potential. so the statement of warriors doing little damage but can absorb a lot of it is utterly fail as well.

and btw: you are entitled to your opinion... but if it's wrong, then you're open to flames.

BlackSephir · Nov 21, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

The problem is that HoTX was not the problem in any of those builds, Tiger stance was. This fact has been obvious since the release of nightfall.

Actually, every IAS stance is problematic when you're using it with SP. BoA was first to go- why should warrior's stance get nerfed because of sins and one slightly broken sin skill? Well, it shouldn't but it did anyway. Now we got HoTO and Trampling nerf, next they will probably make Tiger Stance last 2s, like they did with BoA? And then they'll kill poor Flurry.
The thing I don't get is that- AN understands this. At least they did. That's why we have Factions, Nightfall and GWEN without single sin IAS skill. They knew it'll be overpowered. And yet, when it's obvious that it's IAS that makes SP spike so insanely overpowered, they decided to nerf HoTO (among other skills), skill which has been around since Factions and no one was complaining that iit's damage was too high... Of course until now -,-

ensoriki · Nov 21, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulterion

Noted... but this brings me back to my first post: Purpose of Professions. Assassins assassinate. Warriors kill and endure damage. Give Assassins the armor of a warrior and you have an extremely over-powering foe. Likewise, strap 70AL to warriors and it defeats the purpose of warriors as a whole. I disagree with nerfing Tiger Stance. Assassins are already squishy enough, let them have purpose... Let them be potent killers, not weak squishies that can't even kill foes because daggers are 7-17 and skills are being diminished by nerfs.

Thats not entirely true, one of the strengths of a warrior is that they have armor VS melee, not truly the 80 AL. The fact they can stand against melee makes them good in pve, and weakens damage from both the dervish Assassin AND other warriors.

Give warriors 70 Al they still have +10 to melee = 80, and then from the shield (if there carrying it) = 96, instead of 106. Still not to shabby.
Warriors also have a higher maximum and minimum damage range than an assassin. Making there damage always higher than an assassins except for criticals...but warrior criticals also hit harder than an assasins. A warrior can deal good pressure from auto attacks alone when they build up adrenaline and then Spike the rest of your health down. The warrior is better in the sense that he can take less damage from an elementalists attack and that Whether skills are recharging or not, he can still hurt an ass load.

Quote:

Flaming means insulting others regardless of the conflicting opinions. He called me stupid. How is that not flaming? When did I call anybody on this thread stupid, or anything to that effect? Would you like it if somebody downright called you a dumbass because he thinks you're wrong? If so, then you support flamers and flaming. I do not, and the cup thing: I'm basically telling him to StfU. If you are incapable of looking at my avatar, seeing the soldier with a cup, and seeing StfU at the bottom, and putting two & two together...? Then you have some serious psychological issues.

In a sense you compared him to a horse, and called him an idiot.

Quote:

I can lead a horse to cup, but he just won't drink & stfu. And I refuse to argue with idiots... they take you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You refuse to argue with idiots, you imply you are talking to Moriz. Thus indirectly you called him an idiot, and flamed him.
You also indirectly compared him to a horse/called him a horse also Flaming.

You are both at fault, and should suck it up. Instead of crying to the mods when you have also committed the same offense

MercenaryK · Nov 21, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

SP disables all stances for X....X seconds....
SP disables Tiger Stance for X.....X seconds...
SP disables all Warrior stances for X....X seconds...
SP disables all Ranger stances for X....X seconds...
SP kills all stances in game for X....X months...
SP = Stance, not Hex Spell...
SP: 15 energy

Solutions?

ensoriki · Nov 21, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Actually, every IAS stance is problematic when you're using it with SP. BoA was first to go- why should warrior's stance get nerfed because of sins and one slightly broken sin skill? Well, it shouldn't but it did anyway. Now we got HoTO and Trampling nerf, next they will probably make Tiger Stance last 2s, like they did with BoA? And then they'll kill poor Flurry.
The thing I don't get is that- AN understands this. At least they did. That's why we have Factions, Nightfall and GWEN without single sin IAS skill. They knew it'll be overpowered. And yet, when it's obvious that it's IAS that makes SP spike so insanely overpowered, they decided to nerf HoTO (among other skills), skill which has been around since Factions and no one was complaining that iit's damage was too high... Of course until now -,-

Generally many warrior IAS's are in Strength, Just make there 0 Attribute effect 2, and keep there normal attributes intact.

An assassin with frenzy is a fine turn off IMO, if a sin is running frenzy he has become so fragile the monk buying bread next door might kill him by blowing on him =P. Frenzy sins are fun and interesting, because they have to do it close to a warrior, You take damage= You Die, you won't even last as long as the warrior.

Also Sin's have a PVE IAS (although does not matter in pvp)

And Locust fury, which is not a true IAS, (not because it doesn't affect skills, but because it is not guaranteed to work)

>.> I wish Locust Fury gave an additional +25% crit rate =P

Quote:

SP = Stance, not Hex Spell...
SP: 15 energy

Not a valid solution, Maybe the stance thing...but it doesn't make sense at all. Considering it is really just dark prison just Imba'd (its your opinion if DaPr is imbalanced)

I believe making it half ranged and reducing the snare to 15% is nice (but increase the duration)

Master Ketsu · Nov 21, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulterion

Yea, even with tiger stance in there, if blocked, IAS goes away for the remainder of the recharge time. Personally, I see nothing wrong with Tiger's Stance.

If blocked your Combo fails and likely wont kill anything anyways. If you think the block drawback on tiger is a drawback for assassin spikes, you fail on a level so epic a new word would have to be added to the dictionary just to describe the infinitely expanding amount of how much you fail.

I forget who said this, but the absolute best change to shadow prison is to add "Lose your current stance, all your stances are disabled for 5 seconds" to SP's function. This prevents the need to constantly monitor every other stance sins may 0 spec abuse when combined with SP.

ensoriki · Nov 21, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

If blocked your Combo fails and likely wont kill anything anyways. If you think the block drawback on tiger is a drawback for assassin spikes, you fail on a level so epic a new word would have to be added to the dictionary just to describe the infinitely expanding amount of how much you fail.

I forget who said this, but the absolute best change to shadow prison is to add "Lose your current stance, all your stances are disabled for 5 seconds" to SP's function.

The new term is Political Fail.

And meh I don't like that.

Just make all str stances become 2 duration at 0 (and leave the rest of there attribute durations stay)

I don't know about flail tho.... Im not worried by a frenzy assassin >.> would probably take more skill to play Moriz, since a Frenzied assassin is taking near 200 damage a hit from many of the games spells, and 100+ damage from many of the games attacks

I like Shadow Prison becoming Half ranged and 15% snare instead.

With a duration of
5........17

Its a crappy Cripple, but also a half ranged shadow step, that makes it better and functions as a hex.

And /R sins Well Lightning Reflexes Sins Suck >.>
And the /R sins with Beast mastery....those could just end if you use a spell >.> Wtf is a ranger using a spell for (other than conjures/mending touch/restfull breeze) For anyways (and If your using restful your not attacking anyways, Conjures last long anyhow so whatever! (antidote signet ftw?)

/D using the Mysticism IAs's >.> well those take high energy and are an enchantment with Cast time/after cast and are strippable

/D wind Stances >.> well they are not strong IAS's like the warrior ones (generally)

And they usually need an enchantment removed, which helps balance it out.

Quote:

you can give sins 1 hp but able to do 600 damage on demand, and people will still use them. if you make the end result valuable enough, people will jump through whatever hoops it takes to use it.

the argument that "assassins assassinate" is utterly fail for that reason. GW is a highly tactical game that requires a lot of skill to master. sins on the other hand, skips through all that and allows an utter retard to compete on the same level of someone much more skilled. therefore, the assassin simply does not fit in the game.

as such, all sin builds should be nerfed to the level of the AoD shock assassin build to preserve game balance.

Lol sins will just use Life Sheath on there damn self and Some freaking form of Regen =P

Moriz a L-O-D sin generally (well Actually) is not as strong an O-D-O-D sin.

The AoD shock sin really needed that bad a nerf? Jesus >.>

Making some shadow steps half-ranged makes an assassin a Warrior with a decently better range.

Making L-O-D strong enough that it does not kill on the first try, but kills on the second do to its recharge being somewhat fast enough also balances it out I think. Makes it probably a bit faster killer than a warrior with better range, but not imba.

Assassinate does not just mean mindless killing, a real life assassin has to use their brains A LOT, more so than any normal person does generally. They're killing for money (Most of the time) and putting their lives at stake, a false move ends them, unless they have already had a back up plan, brought back-up.
Real Life assassin's Position themselves and then kill.

A warrior Assassinates too actually its just not called an assassin...and it looks ugly.....and doesn't have daggers.
Thus ya the Assassin assassinates thing is kinda out there.

The assassin just need's it to be in a way, that they are rewarded for their efforts if they do something right =P.

Tyla · Nov 21, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryK

SP disables all stances for X....X seconds....
SP disables Tiger Stance for X.....X seconds...
SP disables all Warrior stances for X....X seconds...
SP disables all Ranger stances for X....X seconds...
SP kills all stances in game for X....X months...
SP = Stance, not Hex Spell...
SP: 15 energy

Solutions?

how about SP deletes a character slot everytime you use it?

anyway,on subject...HoTo/MS chain still works out well but with less damage.wow,be on your head then,time your kd's respectively,cycle threough MS/DB a lil more=gg

Turtle222 · Nov 21, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

and just so you know: warriors are the deadliest melee character in the game, but require a lot of skill to play to full potential. so the statement of warriors doing little damage but can absorb a lot of it is utterly fail as well.

and btw: you are entitled to your opinion... but if it's wrong, then you're open to flames.

i think dervishes are the deadliest melee character in the game. like warriors, they require a lot of skill to play to full potential (particularly in pvp).

HotO was rightly nerfed imo

ensoriki · Nov 22, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Maybe ..just maybe HotO deserved the nerf.

But it was to strong a nerf