Curse

fireflyry · Nov 17, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

I was looking for something different in PVE

Did anyone miss this?

He's looking for something different.....

Not superior to other options, not the uberist, he never claimed it to be superior to any other build out there.

The speed at which some of you guys totally rip apart a build without even reading the OP's intentions is laughable.

Tyla · Nov 17, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Didnt you people get the memo that crit-whateverweapon sins are baed? Without retarded pve skills they would be total trash.

Its simple matter of offering nothing over vanilla user (its pathetic that you need several crit boosting skills /one of them likely bad elite/ and 12 in TWO attributes when primary user just gets 14 in att and gets about same bonus.) Then there is point that crit strikes are armor affected, making +damage skills from weapon mastery + gfte every so often much better.

Worst of it is that you basically cant provide party any utility.

bottom line is, most of the time, crit-something is equal to wammo having 8 attack skills on skillbar.

no....high crit rate is ftw,and pve skills shouldnt of eve n be applied to the game and the gtfe nerf makes you wait even longer......
you shoulda put in "remove way of the master and make critstrikes apply to only daggers" in there....

dont knock it 'til you tried it.

zwei2stein · Nov 17, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

no....high crit rate is ftw,and pve skills shouldnt of eve n be applied to the game and the gtfe nerf makes you wait even longer.......

...

dont knock it 'til you tried it.

I spent some time talking this over with master of damage, only time primary was beaten was with dervish, by about 3 (? dps), which was outclassed by vanilla dagger combo. / over 180s btw /

high crit rate is not what is ftw on crit-whatever, its having about 10 pips of energy regen whle attacking which allow you to spam pretty much anything on recharge. THAT is where crit-whatever damage comes from, infinite energy allowing to spam +damage skills. Not damage from criticals itself.

Quote:

you shoulda put in "remove way of the master and make critstrikes apply to only daggers" in there...

wtf?

Tyla · Nov 17, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I spent some time talking this over with master of damage, only time primary was beaten was with dervish, by about 3 (? dps), which was outclassed by vanilla dagger combo. / over 180s btw /

high crit rate is not what is ftw on crit-whatever, its having about 10 pips of energy regen whle attacking which allow you to spam pretty much anything on recharge. THAT is where crit-whatever damage comes from, infinite energy allowing to spam +damage skills. Not damage from criticals itself.

i think you also failed at reading fireflyry said,and pve is easy anyway.

Malaguard · Nov 19, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

I've seen very few things that can outdamage a Scythe Sin over a 1.5 second interval with two timed melee attacks and one standard attack. It just gets better if they are undead and grouped up.

Go back and read the soap opera I wrote you Zwei. The ending still hasn't happened in your case... but you'll get there. I promise.

Painbringer · Nov 19, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Boy some of you guys read too deep sometimes. This was just for something different. Not perfect but what is. I really changed things since I originally posted this. The Sin skills basically stayed the same I did add Way of perfection instead of shadow refuge. Honestly it almost has that WAMMO feel to it when you see the health return from Way of Perfection. I really had fun doing the Norn tournament. I had to change the set up a bit adding disrupting axe and also sharpen daggers. All foes but the Mesmer where easy. If he hits you with empathy you better hope he is almost dead otherwise you will be. The monks drop easy with the bleeding / disruption added. I got to bison only once and did get defeated, but that was my own issue started critical defense by mistake and stepped through the door which caused bison to charge me with my defense running out and having to wait for it to recharge” my bad”. (Got distracted by my three year old) I then ran out of time to play but anyway it is a fun build. The quest Charr Invaders was also good fun and the Charr where falling rather quickly with triple chop and Whirlwind attack. Again this was just for fun and added a little versatility to my sin.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 19, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

This thread made lol.

While the build is nothing original it is a fun build to run but I think everyone makes one eventually. If you ask me.

=DNC=Trucker · Nov 19, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

How do you handle blocks/blinds/skite, especially when trying to keep up SY! ?

Painbringer · Nov 19, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DNC=Trucker

How do you handle blocks/blinds/skite, especially when trying to keep up SY! ?

I have been running Dual Nec / Rit Heroes both have Mend body and Soul also one of them with [skill]Pure Was Li Ming[/skill]

For the blocks I was thinking about adding [skill]Fox's Promise[/skill]

Malaguard · Nov 19, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DNC=Trucker

How do you handle blocks/blinds/skite, especially when trying to keep up SY! ?

A few comments:

If I am going into a condition heavy area, there is an assassin critical strikes ability that removes conditions as you spamm your attacks. Works wonders.

If it's minor conditions, but blindness is around, I usually have heroes backing me up. Blindness won't last that long.

This is PvE we're talking about. Not a lot of kiting from Mobs, even in HM. Blocks aren't an issue - switch targets. It's PvE. Not a big deal. Also, the two main attacks on the build I posted are AoE axe attacks. So, even if your primary target is blocking, usually the others are not, and you can pop off the two AoE attacks, and usually SY is charged.

Versus heavy block, I don't even try to maintain SY 100% of the time. If I keep it up 50% or more, that's more than enough IMO. That means chargine up 8 adrenaline once every 8 seconds or so. _very easy_ with an AoE melee spammer.

Now - all this being said, I found critical barrage to work better in most Hero/Hench Situations in PvE. Usually there's a MM bomber with me, and this keeps me back with the team and the minions up front. Works nicely for glints, an ele buddy and me can get into top 50 score there just by working the map, some alkar's, and letting the heroes do their thing. Critical barrage attacks versus high armor are about 40 damage each - 1 per second roughly. That doesn't factor in the barbs or mark of pain. So - critical can work, and it's enjoyable.

TBH, I usually run moebius DB on the standard A/D build. It's very nice for vanquishing, and for situations where I am only 50% playing GW and 50% distracted by real life. DB/Moebius is a great c-space 1232323-space click repeat way to play GW.

General comment:
The axe-sin was an experiment that I felt worked nicely, but not my favorite way to play. I posted my build here so that the OP could have something to compare against that might give him other ideas.

Some others thought this was a power-build optimization thread and decided to get stupid and claim that only their way of playing GW is correct. As I alluded to earlier, this is only to satisfy their needs to mentally masterbate their ego, and not add any thing of value to the OP, or anyone else reading this thread. In any case, it seems the OP already got what he needed out of this thread, so I am happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryK
That post just made me think about the position of the Assassin and using SY!. Since the Assassin is usually running around, assuming this one is going to be on front-lines, that shout may miss some players. It would be better not to use SY! on that build/sins and leave it to Paragons that can get everyone covered easily.

Originally Posted by zwei2stein
That is right track of thought ... sy is best on someone who is fairly far away from harn and in even distance to whole party.

Paragons can fuel it easily, so they are prime candidates. Rangers can fuell it too and have similar positioning boon.

Assin using SY is just too much out of range and more importantly, he is prone to be point of failure for party: its usually important to cover first few seconds of fight when mosnters unload nukes, but meele will spend time running to target and gaining adrenaline, you can teleprot there, but that gets you out of monk range /and thus dead/, that makes warrior better to do this kind of stuff as he is more likely to survive such attempt /because of not relying on enchants or hitting mosnters 24/7 that much/.

I guess that if you are using warrior secodnary, its not bad taking ardenal shout as it is pretty much free except skillslot of which sins coincidentally have shortage, but if you want to base build around it, you should rethink your primary class or role.

Some of this is very valid commentary. Without getting worked up over it, I'll explain. Yes, SY is nice on a paragon. I run a P/W all the time that plays "Party Support". But that's me playing a paragon, not playing an assassin. Boring.

Here are the reasons I like it on the Assassin I posted:
That's my utility slot on the build. There are other things I put there sometimes, depending on what I'm doing.
The assassin I posted won't shadowstep, and usually is played with H/H or one other human (whatever friend is online, doing the same dungeon or area as me). Usually that person is an ele. I don't have the LUXURY of running a human paragon if I want to play my assassin. I have a paragon, but I hate playing that passive piece of BS. Assassin ftw. Since "SY!" is a PvE skill, I can't run it on heroes. If I want the benefits of SY!, I have to run it.

The way the AI appears to operate is based on remaining life and target armor level. When I run up into aggro range, and the heroes are flagged or are trailing behind me, USUALLY I have full buffs = armor, block%, and after a few hits, usually i have Prot Spirit. By now, my heroes have moved into my aggro bubble, and doing their thing (fighting, healing, etc). By the time they are just starting to take hits, I shout "SY!", and continue running my AOE attacks and shouts. Because my party that moved into range has full health (usually) and high armor, they aggro usually stays on me. If an enemy switches aggro, then it's switching to someone who has +100 armor for large portions of the fight.

Without heavy enchant removal (which shuts down 99% of assassin builds anyhow), I will heal myself fully with criticals, maintain heavy aggro, spamm decent AOE, and provide some party protection. Anyone outside my shout range is usually not taking damage anyhow, since I did my job correctly and collected aggro. It's basically an assassin pretending to be a warrior, just slightly lower armor, but better block % and better damage output (at least I think so).
I think of a million comparisons that can do specific instances of what I just wrote better - obsidian tank, shadowform sin maybe, SY Adrenal Paragon, etc. Valid points. But I wanted to play an axe-critical assassin, and so I tweaked it to work.

Coloneh · Nov 19, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Did anyone miss this?

He's looking for something different.....

Not superior to other options, not the uberist, he never claimed it to be superior to any other build out there.

The speed at which some of you guys totally rip apart a build without even reading the OP's intentions is laughable.

except that its not different. it may be different thatn what hes using now, but its not a new build. its a build tats been done sense factions came out, and its been done better.

LaserLight · Nov 20, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

*Sighs* Just give it up, guys. It's pointless.

Why is it that every time I give in to curiosity and come back to the Guru to check things out and look at a few builds that aren't the "YOU MUST USE THIS OR YOU PHAIL AT LIVING" 'optimized' builds, the exact same people are telling the OP that they need to get themselves lobotomized, stop trying to make new builds of any sort, and just use the exact same bars that their obvious superiors have graciously given to the poor GW-playing flock?

Is it as efficient as a Moebius Blossom? Probably not. Are Moebius Blossoms EVERYWHERE/boring as hell to run? Yeah, yeah they are. Is doing something you've never tried before fun? Yeah, kinda is. Does it do its job anyways, even though it's not Moebius Blossom, The Only Conceivable Build An Assassin Could Ever Possibly Run In Anything Remotely PvE-ish? Actually...yeah, it kinda does.

I play Assassin's Promise in PvE, alongside a Deadly Arts spike. I kill things faster than the average Moebius Blossomer does, and I'm not nearly as clumsy as Moebius Blossom is, requiring multiple Enchantments and enemy HP conditionals and all that idiocy. AP the target, Dash to it, stabstabstabImpaleSigofToxiShock, death. Skills and Energy recharged, move to next victim in a second or less. Repeat until enemies are dead. Clean, effective, and fully able to keep up with Blossomers.

Moebius Blossom does not comprise the entirety of an Assassin's very essence, and I'm sick of seeing it treated as the only reason Assassins exist. Get over yourselves and accept that not everyone in this game has decided that it's either the one, single set of eight skills that the Top PvE Gods have decreed are the only purpose of a specific class, or bust.

Coloneh · Nov 20, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

If you dont want to use the best build available, thats fine. were here giving advise about what the best build would be. the people that liek to win with buildwars know how to make good builds. most people like builds that are effective, nor origional. I think that killing mobs is fun, thats why i run MS/DB, if i thought praying for targets to die was fun i would be running AP.

LaserLight · Nov 20, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

The issue is that your adivce to basically every PvE Assassin that isn't a Moebius Blossom is "Stop being a noob and switch to Moebius Blossom." If that's all you're ever going to say, don't bother saying it. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows full well that if they don't want all the elitist jerks in the game to hate them, they better run Moebius Blossom or else.

As for AP...hm hm, first of all. Even in areas heavy with hex removal, I can make about eighty-five percent of my Assassin's Promise shots land. It takes...wait for it...SKILL. Ye wait until the hex-removal's already been used on other people, then lick in and before the spell recharges, kill. And when it fails, well, that's why other people in yer team carry a Hex if you can't fit a spare in. That way ye can rap off another attack stream when your attacks recharge, not just when Promise does. That would be...what's the word...teamwork? That other keyword that gets thrown around so often in this game?

Perhaps, if you were a bit more flexible than a dead tree, you would see that not every character in all of Creation has to run the exact same bar in every circumstance everywhere?

zwei2stein · Nov 20, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

If you dont want to use the best build available, thats fine. were here giving advise about what the best build would be. the people that liek to win with buildwars know how to make good builds. most people like builds that are effective, nor origional. I think that killing mobs is fun, thats why i run MS/DB, if i thought praying for targets to die was fun i would be running AP.

Nicely put. Also, as side note, most of unoriginal builds are NOT effective ones.

Malaguard: I would still recomend hybriding SY! to deaths blossom build where you can afford it and you don't need res /being tank and all, you should be first do die anyway./

Also, SY on that build is not being useless with spread monsters where you cant hit multiples as double strikes fill your adrenaline faster.

Malaguard · Nov 20, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Nicely put. Also, as side note, most of unoriginal builds are NOT effective ones.

Malaguard: I would still recomend hybriding SY! to deaths blossom build where you can afford it and you don't need res /being tank and all, you should be first do die anyway./

Also, SY on that build is not being useless with spread monsters where you cant hit multiples as double strikes fill your adrenaline faster.

Double strikes does NOT fill adrenaline faster than AOE attacks. I'm sorry. Loading SY! onto a DB assassin would not be good synergy IMO. A few reasons.

You lose your synergy with A/D - you have to go A/W to do it. Blech.

The moebius blossom build is great, no doubt, but it makes approximately 3 hits per 2 seconds, by the time it gets to the blossom spamm. At that rate, it will take a minimum of 6 seconds to charge up SY! (but usually your target dies, and you have to start your chain over). AOE attacks circumvent the whole process. C-Space, whirling axe, cyclone, adrenaline is ALWAYS full after that. Pop the shout out. That's 2 seconds for the first shout. Even under moderate block conditions. 4 Seconds Later (whirling recharge is the only limit to the build), you repeat, and boom, SY is up again. When the furious mod on the axe triggers, it'll fill the adrenaline bar with one AOE attack, and then I pop the SY! out there. As far as monsters being "spread around" - the tank/sweeper/puller's job is to group them up, then position himself to hold them. Since I play with 1 human or 0 humans most of the time, my job is to do that, and as any long-time PvE player can tell you, there's a knack to grouping up the enemy, even casters and archers.

We _both_ agree, and axe is not the most efficient way to do things. But dagger sins can get boring (Hell, PvE can get boring).

And to a previous poster who said:

blah blah this stuff has been done since factions blah balh blah.

My Response: That's not true. Way of the Master has SIGNIFICANTLY boosted the critical sin build. Yes - that's a GWEN skill. Last I checked, when factions was released, GWEN wasn't out. The concept for the build has been around since assassins have been around, but GWEN has made it much more viable.

Before it was a true gimmick build. Now, I would suggest that axe-sins, bow-sins, scythe sins, and sword sins can be relied on to provide steady melee support in PvE. I'd take a holy-damage scythe sin into ANY undead area over an ele nuker, monk smiter, warrior D-Slash spammer, etc.

Mist Walker Skarloc · Nov 20, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaguard

And to a previous poster who said:

blah blah this stuff has been done since factions blah balh blah.

My Response: That's not true. Way of the Master has SIGNIFICANTLY boosted the critical sin build. Yes - that's a GWEN skill. Last I checked, when factions was released, GWEN wasn't out. The concept for the build has been around since assassins have been around, but GWEN has made it much more viable.

If he said that this stuff has been done since Factions, it seems like he was talking about originality, not viability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaguard

and sword sins

lulwut. Swords do steady damage. Crit 'whatever' builds are for weapons with a large damage range.

Laserlight, could you post that build you use, please? It sounds fun.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 20, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

his might be hundred blades I saw one of those a while ago, then barberous slice and gash.

I have also seen a crip slash version once.

Malaguard · Nov 20, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

If he said that this stuff has been done since Factions, it seems like he was talking about originality, not viability.

lulwut. Swords do steady damage. Crit 'whatever' builds are for weapons with a large damage range.

Laserlight, could you post that build you use, please? It sounds fun.

Swords are not optimal for crit-builds. I just like how the Zodiac Sword looks on my assassin, and so I ran a build just so that I could play a few missions and areas with a zodiac sword. Yes it sucks, officially, but hey, I got to hold the zodiac sword. ZODIAC!~11! It's not optimal-crits like a scythe/bow/axe. Did I mention _ zodiac _ sword _. RAAAWR! A sin with a zodiac sword makes me think of Final Fantasy Tactics for some reason.

Also, agree with his request - Laserlight, please post that build. It caught my curiosity.

MercenaryK · Nov 20, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Playing the game for fun = FGJ
Playing the game for fun and joining other players that ends up as a suicide mission yet to be recognized = FTL
Learning from this and bringing heroes when all else fails = FTW

I <3 PvE because nearly anything with half a brain will work