Curse

TEB Elite · Nov 17, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Ive been re-thinking my monks build, and want some opinions/ideas on what I've come up with so far:

Profession Mo/E
Protection: 6
Healing: 12 + 1
Divine: 11 + 1

- Word Of Healing
- Dwaynas Kiss
- Orison Of Healing
- Healing Touch
- Holy Haste
- Dismiss Condition
- Glyph Of Lesser Energy
- Rebirth (resurrection chant)

Cast order:
- Glyph of lesser energy -> holy haste
- word of healing for allies below 50%
- dwaynas kiss for enchanted or hexed allies
- Orison while word of healing and dwaynas kiss recharge.
- Healing touch if your close to an allie and self heal.

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Orison of Healing[/skill][skill]Healing Touch[/skill][skill]Holy Haste[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Template code:

Quote:

OwYT04nB3RjsRyI5kK9mGZITAA

Thanks

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Edit 1: Heres the latest build with changes because of this thread.

Notes: Holy haste was dropped in favor of smaller prot spells.

Note: Still completely open to suggestions

- Word of healing
- Dwaynas Kiss
- Signet of devotion (when I get factions, tbr with signet of rejuvenation)
- Reversal of fortune (may be replaced by aegis)
- Holy haste (may be replaced with protective spirit or aegis.
- Remove hex (tbr with cure hex when I get factions.)
- Dismiss condition
- Rebirth (tbr with resurrection chant depending on the event)

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Signet Of Devotion[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Holy Haste[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

____________________

Edit 2

Notes: Added protective spirit, reversal of fortune.

Still open to suggestions:

Latest Revision:

- Word of healing
- Dwaynas Kiss
- Signet of devotion (when I get factions, tbr with signet of rejuvenation)
- Reversal of fortune (may be replaced by aegis)
- Protective spirit
- Remove hex (tbr with cure hex when I get factions.)
- Dismiss condition
- Rebirth (tbr with resurrection chant depending on the event)

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Signet Of Devotion[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

____________________________

Edit 3: Latest revision:

Notes: Removed reversal of fortune, signet of devotion, added heal party, gole.

- Word of healing
- Dwaynas kiss
- Heal party
- Protective spirit
- Glyph of lesser energy
- Remove Hex
- Dismiss condition
- Rebirth

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

__________________________

Edit 4: Latest Revision

Notes: Removed heal party and gole

- Word of healing
- Dwaynas kiss
- Reversal of fortune
- Shielding hands
- Protective spirit
- Remove Hex
- Dismiss condition
- Rebirth

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Shielding Hands[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

dont feel no pain · Nov 17, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

hmm i run a simular build on my healer hero after LOD got nerfed, byt yeah its gud

deluxe · Nov 17, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

prot > healing, and you basically have 4 skills doing what woh is fine with on it's own.

i'd say forget about holy haste, and stack up some small prots.
gole is not interesting in builds with only 5e skills.

something like this would work fine in pve: woh, sig of reju, rof, guardian, soa, prot spirit, dismiss, cure hex.
you could stick in a gole+ heal party for the pressure areas.

ps. if you need rebirth on your bar, you pretty much fail as a monk anyway.

TEB Elite · Nov 17, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

ps. if you need rebirth on your bar, you pretty much fail as a monk anyway.

/disagree

Rebirth is infinitely useful when it comes to wipes and near wipes. Im not opposed to carrying a faster res for mid-battle, but as far as my monk experience goes (main char) rebirth comes in handy alot more than res chant or resurrect.

Aera Lure · Nov 17, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

I agree with dropping Holy Haste from that build and work in a small prot. Maybe drop GoLE if your prot is 5e and place Signet of Rejuvination in, but it depends a little on what you chose to replace Holy Haste.

However, I too disagree with the comment on Rebirth. Someone in the backline needs it in HM. If its H/H play, then it has to be you. Its just too useful for getting the party back on their feet if there is trouble. You shouldnt be casting res mid battle anyway - save that for a hero or a henchman. If you're playing in an all-human group I might consider leaving Rebirth behind, but would prefer someone had it. All it takes is a single player to drop in an awkward spot and you'll wish you had it.

Hikeotron · Nov 17, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

ps. if you need rebirth on your bar, you pretty much fail as a monk anyway.

i hardly ever post on these forums, but comments like these really annoy me. My friend and i dual monk, and have since proph, but i find it highly naive to think that you'd never consider it. Backliners such as monks aint gonna be using it mid battle, unlike dunkoro seems to think, its more over for as TEB said, near wipes.

deluxe · Nov 17, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

However, I too disagree with the comment on Rebirth. Someone in the backline needs it in HM.

I have never taken a ressurect in HM as monk, got max Vanquisher and Guardian title without problems.
To monk to your full potention, you cant waste a skillslot.

Aera Lure · Nov 17, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

I have never taken a ressurect in HM as monk, got max Vanquisher and Guardian title without problems.
To monk to your full potention, you cant waste a skillslot.

Depends how you are running your team. Was that H/H, 2+6 or all-human? I'm sure someone on your team had it if you did not. I have Guardian and most of EoTN HM done myself and would not consider leaving rebirth behind H/H. As I said, if not H/H then it depends on your team make-up, but its very unwise to make a blanket statement like "monks dont need a res, ever" or "you are a poor monk if you bring a res." Some circumstances make it wise to do so, some make it so you dont need it.

Burst Cancel · Nov 17, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEB Elite

/disagree

Rebirth is infinitely useful when it comes to wipes and near wipes. Im not opposed to carrying a faster res for mid-battle, but as far as my monk experience goes (main char) rebirth comes in handy alot more than res chant or resurrect.

His point is that you shouldn't be wiping or near wiping. I agree with this point.

Monks shouldn't be taking res. A 6s hard res is far too slow in combat to matter at all, and if you need to rebirth people out of combat, you need to work on keeping people alive (for instance, by using that 8th slot for a better skill), rather than using Rebirth as a crutch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Depends how you are running your team. Was that H/H, 2+6 or all-human? I'm sure someone on your team had it if you did not. I have Guardian and most of EoTN HM done myself and would not consider leaving rebirth behind H/H. As I said, if not H/H then it depends on your team make-up, but its very unwise to make a blanket statement like "monks dont need a res, ever" or "you are a poor monk if you bring a res." Some circumstances make it wise to do so, some make it so you dont need it.

H/H doesn't require Rebirth.

I still don't understand why people think, "Hmm, I party wipe, so I should bring Rebirth", rather than, "Hmm, I should find out how to not party wipe in the first place".

deluxe · Nov 17, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Burst's post pretty much tells what I was about to type =]

Aera Lure · Nov 17, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I still don't understand why people think, "Hmm, I party wipe, so I should bring Rebirth", rather than, "Hmm, I should find out how to not party wipe in the first place".

I still dont understand the arrogance among some monks that their way is the only way, and that res is never an option. I never, ever, have a problem completing anything I set out to do and was simply sharing my experience.

H/H in HM should the circumstances arise that somehow you get into trouble and lose a couple heroes or henchmen, it seems like folly to me to outright assume both you and any other player you are giving advice to would have no trouble with recovery. You can stand in the fire and keep everything alive, and you might well do that, or you can calmly extract what you can and then Rebirth them to give it another go, chalking that up to an unfortunate popup or aggro. That may not happen, and granted, on a number of runs it wont. However, having rebirth along in my experience allows it to go smoothly should anything at all unfortunate happen along the way.

Go ahead and go into things assuming you will not need to res if that is your nature. Henchmen will cast res mid-battle and its fine if that is all you wish to rely on. Many times that's fine.

Draginvry · Nov 17, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

IMHO, the Rebirth should only be replaced if you have a trustworthy team. In that case, get rid of it for another prot. But for general PuGs, you have to face the fact that there may be some idiot who is responsible for getting the whole party wiped by aggroing like fifty monsters. In this case, you will be unable to salvage your team no matter how good you think your monking is. Rebirth is by far the best insurance against such idiocy.

Rebirth can be usefull. But it becomes much less usefull with guildies or heros. Just don't be a moron and use it as an in-battle res. Somehow the other day some nub managed to beat my FC Res Chant with a Rebirth in the middle of battle. I have no idea how I let THAT happen. It was annoying as hell.

But I will agree that monks don't need a res other than Rebirth. Other classes are better suited to in-battle res. Mostly Mesmers for FC, or /Rt for DPS.

horseradish · Nov 17, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Bring a rez when you are with stupid people

natural sugar · Nov 17, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Bring a rez when you are with stupid people

And heroes/henchies are retarded, so generally its a good idea to bring a rez.

Chthon · Nov 17, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEB Elite

Ive been re-thinking my monks build, and want some opinions/ideas on what I've come up with so far:

Profession Mo/E
Protection: 6
Healing: 12 + 1
Divine: 11 + 1

- Word Of Healing
- Dwaynas Kiss
- Orison Of Healing
- Healing Touch
- Holy Haste
- Dismiss Condition
- Glyph Of Lesser Energy
- Rebirth (resurrection chant)

Cast order:
- Glyph of lesser energy -> holy haste
- word of healing for allies below 50%
- dwaynas kiss for enchanted or hexed allies
- Orison while word of healing and dwaynas kiss recharge.
- Healing touch if your close to an allie and self heal.

Template code:

Thanks

1. Expect to hear a lot of "prot >>> healing." Thar's true in some circumstances, dubious in others, and total bullshit for most of NM PvE, but the idea that "prot >>> healing" in absolutely every case is absurdly (and wrongly) popular around here.

2. Expect to hear a lot of "don't bring rez. monks who need rez suck." This idea is also popular far beyond its merit around here. Drop your rez only if you really need the space for another skill you find worthwhile.

3. Orison has been seriously outclassed by newer spot heals. Ethereal light works better, and with half-cast time the easy-interruption isn't a problem. Healing Whisper is another spot heal > orison.

4. However, with WoH + DKiss both on 3sec recharge, you may not use your third spot heal much at all. You might change it out for Signet of Rejuvenation so that you can do bar-topping during periods when you don't need to spike heal.

5. Now that WoH can self-target, Healing Touch is pretty much redundant in WoH builds. Use the space for something else.

6. You build lacks party healing. I suggest Heal Party.

7. Your bar lacks hex removal. I suggest Cure Hex.

8. GoLE is kinda wasted on this bar. Holy Haste lasts long enough that you can precast it before battle and regen up, and everything else is 5e. Spend 5e to save 10e, once every 30ish sec? No thanks. It might become worthwhile if you add Heal Party; otherwise, drop it to save space.

9. Moving points from DF to Prot is wasted on this bar. Unless you're using Dismiss Condition disproportionately often, you'll get more healing/time out of that extra point of DF on every spell than you will from a bigger heal on Dismiss. You might bring Protective Spirit, Aegis, or some "small prot" if you can fit them in; in which case the points in prot would be needed; otherwise, shift them back to DF.

Div · Nov 17, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

You're better off bringing hard rez on a hero, so you can actually do your job. Most of the time you can live without an 8th skill on a midline, but not on a monk.

Omniclasm · Nov 17, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Expect to hear a lot of "prot >>> healing." Thar's true in some circumstances, dubious in others, and total bullshit for most of NM PvE, but the idea that "prot >>> healing" in absolutely every case is absurdly (and wrongly) popular around here.

The only time that healing is better than protection is when you are against tons and tons of degeneration, or against tons of life stealing, and even in these situations, 1-2 maybe 3 healing skills are enough.

TEB Elite · Nov 17, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Much appreciate all the comments.

But I would like a little less res debate and a little more comments/opinions on the build. If you prefer not to bring a res because you think you or your party is so good then don't, but I on the other hand know that there is always going to be a lag spike, power failure, wamo, or other noob thats going to mess your entire deal up, and there wont be anything your extra healing/prot spell can do about it.

Thanks for your comments chthon

Quote:

change it out for Signet of Rejuvenation

Factions only skill, I used signet of devotion instead. Less healing, longer cast time, but unless I stick with orison its the only other non-factions/nightfall skill.

Quote:

Now that WoH can self-target, Healing Touch is pretty much redundant in WoH builds. Use the space for something else.

Healing touch has been removed.

Quote:

I suggest Cure Hex.

Factions skill, I used remove hex.

Quote:

GoLE is kinda wasted on this bar. Holy Haste lasts long enough that you can precast it before battle and regen up, and everything else is 5e. Spend 5e to save 10e, once every 30ish sec? No thanks. It might become worthwhile if you add Heal Party; otherwise, drop it to save space.

I didn't bring it specifically because of holy haste, usually after longer than normal battles or when there is severe damage being done very quickly to the party energy gets a bit tight. This is why I was considering changing secondary to ME and using channeling, energy tap, or power drain.

Quote:

Moving points from DF to Prot is wasted on this bar. Unless you're using Dismiss Condition disproportionately often, you'll get more healing/time out of that extra point of DF on every spell than you will from a bigger heal on Dismiss. You might bring Protective Spirit, Aegis, or some "small prot" if you can fit them in; in which case the points in prot would be needed; otherwise, shift them back to DF.

Added a few small prots, the points also compliment dismiss condition, and rebirth. Ill keep them for now.

After many suggestions from friendlies/guild/alliance/these forums, I have come up with this:

Note: Still completely open to suggestions

- Word of healing
- Dwaynas Kiss
- Signet of devotion (when I get factions, tbr with signet of rejuvenation)
- Reversal of fortune (may be replaced by aegis)
- Holy haste (may be replaced with protective spirit or aegis.
- Remove hex (tbr with cure hex when I get factions.)
- Dismiss condition
- Rebirth (tbr with resurrection chant depending on the event)

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Signet Of Devotion[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Holy Haste[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Ensign · Nov 17, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

prot > healing, and you basically have 4 skills doing what woh is fine with on it's own.

Well if he really wants to play a spam healer he can take Word of Healing and Dwayna's Kiss; they're both good enough in PvE to be worth having and it's more than enough spot heals. Better players will simply rock the Word, but if you simply want to move bars most of the time Dwaynas, for a new player, isn't that bad.

The other heals are 100% redundant and worthless however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

i'd say forget about holy haste

Agree, I have no idea why you'd want that in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

However, I too disagree with the comment on Rebirth. Someone in the backline needs it in HM.

Putting Rebirth on a Monk in hard mode is not even remotely conceivable. If you're playing with a typically shitty pug, and you're not experienced enough to make use of all 8 skill slots, there isn't anything terribly wrong with putting Rebirth in the last slot. It'll probably stay on the OP's bar for some time; in the hands of a good player he's running the equivalent of a 3 skill bar, and it'll take some time, I presume, to learn to use more slots. Playing with awful players, you can be assured of someone finding a way to die in some horrible place and Rebirth does become useful; on the occasion that I've babysat awful players on my Monk I have wanted to have it on my bar. But why would I ever consider taking a team like that into hard mode? Teams that find ways to fail spectacularly are flat out incompatible with hard mode.

If you're playing on a halfway competent team, and you know how to Monk, your 8th skill slot is much better spent on another skill while your other characters handle the hard resses - General Morgahn is a beast with Signet of Return. Rebirth should not be even remotely relevant in hard mode - do you not bother to pull mobs? Do you not retreat until several teammates are down? Deaths happen, sometimes you have to pull out, but corpses sitting under a mob's anchor point is something that should never be happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draginvry

IMHO, the Rebirth should only be replaced if you have a trustworthy team. In that case, get rid of it for another prot. But for general PuGs, you have to face the fact that there may be some idiot who is responsible for getting the whole party wiped by aggroing like fifty monsters. In this case, you will be unable to salvage your team no matter how good you think your monking is. Rebirth is by far the best insurance against such idiocy.

I agree with the above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural sugar

And heroes/henchies are retarded, so generally its a good idea to bring a rez.

Heroes and henchies are as intelligent as their owner is at using flags. If you're retarded then yes your heroes are going to be retarded and you'll need to respond to that. But if you don't fail at GW your heroes should be much, much smarter than an average pug - the can read your mind after all. They should be even 'smarter' than 'good' player teammates, since they're always on the same page as you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Expect to hear a lot of "prot >>> healing." Thar's true in some circumstances

It is true in every circumstance that poses a real threat of killing members of your party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

and total bullshit for most of NM PvE

Most of normal mode PvE can be completed with Glimmer of Light and seven empty skill slots. It can also be done with Word of Healing and 7 empty slots, or Orison of Healing and 7 slots. The argument that you shouldn't run prot on your bar because it's not good against content that you can complete with one skill is asinine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

"monks who need rez suck." This idea is also popular far beyond its merit around here.

It's absolutely correct. It's popular around here because it's true; however it's overused because the Monks looking for advice here, as a rule, suck.

Jackita · Nov 17, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

I have never taken a ressurect in HM as monk, got max Vanquisher and Guardian title without problems.
To monk to your full potention, you cant waste a skillslot.

Area with res shrine= Dont bring Res

Area without res shrine= Bring Res

You and your team could be great, pro, whatever... but lag overaggro or another problem or mistake can whipe your party.

Res is like a condom is better have one and dont need it than need one and dont have it.