Curse

arcady · Nov 13, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

This is just full of fail. Seriously, the worst thing you could do as a frontline warrior is to use Heal Sig after a spike. Heal Sig takes away 40 armor, effectively doubling the damage you take. You're already in a precarious position from the low health, and now you've just put a big bullseye on your head.

Doesn't seem to work that way in practice.

Plus, putting a bullseye on my warrior is part of the point of being a warrior. Rarely can they pull off a second spike in the time frame - if they can, and if the rest of the team wasn't helping me avoid it (prots, DPS, anything), there's nothing I could do differently anyway. If they can manage two quick spikes strong enough to take a warrior down, then they overpower my team enough that we lost the moment it started anyway. Whether that's because we're so bad anybody could spike us like that, or they're so good they could do it to anyone doesn't matter - the odds were set.

But, in practice, I've never been second spiked while using the signet. I've been taken down before, but not at that time. Most of the times I've been taken down were the result of kiting and not stopping my chase fast enough when my target ran too far from my support - ie, a sudden tactical error on my part, but not related to this signet.

Maybe we have different conceptions of stepping away. For me, on the warrior, what I meant by that was just not clicking an attack. At most I'll take a step that is just a body length away - I'll only fully back off if I'm about to go down and my support is nowhere near. At that point, I'm maneuvering to to prevent a probable wipe.

What's also funny here is that I started carrying skills like Healing Signet and Watch Yourself! on my warrior alt (my mains being two monks) as a result of reading so my posts by monk players claiming it was 'fail' to not have these skills - for the warrior to go pure offense. So which is it? Fail to have them or fail to not have them? It can't be both.

ender6 · Nov 13, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

In PvE it isn't necessary for a warrior to have any form of healing. Nevertheless it is good practice for a warrior to have some form of healing/or dmg mitigation.

@Healing Breeze, yeah still sucks. Not only is it still a waste of energy, but the fact that it is bound to be shattered somewhere along the way, it will most likely cause more harm than good.

Someone commented if it cost 5e and had a shorter recharge time, it would make for a nice cover enchant--along that line of thinking, Vig Spirit with a 1/4 sec cast and a quick recharge, me thinks not too shabby.

Jaigoda · Nov 13, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Doesn't seem to work that way in practice.

Plus, putting a bullseye on my warrior is part of the point of being a warrior. Rarely can they pull off a second spike in the time frame - if they can, and if the rest of the team wasn't helping me avoid it (prots, DPS, anything), there's nothing I could do differently anyway. If they can manage two quick spikes strong enough to take a warrior down, then they overpower my team enough that we lost the moment it started anyway. Whether that's because we're so bad anybody could spike us like that, or they're so good they could do it to anyone doesn't matter - the odds were set.

They don't need a spike, they just need a couple hits and you're dead. You take DOUBLE damage when using heal sig, and if you're already at low health (say, under 150 hp), they have two seconds (which is a long time) to deal what would have been 75 damage, or about 2-3 hits from a HM Grawl. And of course, you're on the frontline trying to tank stuff. Chances are you won't actually survive untill Heal Sig gets off.

And even if you used Heal Sig above critical health (say, 300), you're still probably going to lose more health in that 2 second window than Heal Sig will heal for, because they only need to do half of what Heal Sig heals for, which at reasonable tactics, is about 100. So they need to do just 51 damage to have wasted your Heal Sig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

What's also funny here is that I started carrying skills like Healing Signet and Watch Yourself! on my warrior alt (my mains being two monks) as a result of reading so my posts by monk players claiming it was 'fail' to not have these skills - for the warrior to go pure offense. So which is it? Fail to have them or fail to not have them? It can't be both.

I never said that it was a bad idea to carry Heal Sig, just that you use it at the wrong time. You said you used HSig to recover from a spike. But in PvE, if you've just been spiked by multiple enemies, the monsters are telegraphing that their aggro is on you, and they're going to keep attacking you. If you use Heal Sig at this point, you're putting even more pressure on your health, as well as your monk. It would be better to use it when you're being targetted less, as a bar-topper, rather than a spike-heal. Or maybe bring a block stance or something, to try and give yourself a little bit more defense while you're using it.

arcady · Nov 13, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

By contrast, note the amount the signet heals - its quite a heavy heal - if you're down by enough to need it, and in a situation where you need it - then anything that could spike you to death while using it will get you even without using it, and once its used you'll regain enough to mitigate whatever was actually done to you in that time.

In practice, using it to cover after a spike has worked for me, repeatedly. I also spam 'Watch Yourself!' so maybe that is also offsetting the -40 armor, but either way, it works - and it allows the monk to not need to spam heals at my warrior.

Back to my original analogy, it is certainly much better at this than Healing Breeze - which is useless in that same scenario as it will not recover more than you take in its time.

I do agree on using it as a bar topper as well. I will sometimes spam it between closely packed mobs, or after downing one member of a mob and before moving to the next. The first of these situations might be viable for Healing Breeze, but the second is less so.

I never consciously thought to use the -40 armor to my advantage, but if that makes a warrior more a target of aggro, that's another reason to use it over the Wa/Mo Healing Breeze - use Healing Signet before having taken any damage, as a way to gather aggro. I'll have to test to see if this works.

Brian the Gladiator · Nov 13, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

[skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Storm Djinn's Haste[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill]

This is a very legitimate build which uses healing breeze. Definitely not useless anymore!

Age · Nov 13, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

The skill might find its way into more farming builds and to a few more wammo skillbars, but that is it IMO.

5e and 1/4 might be enough reason to give it a try on primary monk, but until then, we'll have to use something that is acutely useful.

It has always been used on farming builds not all W/Mo use HB and not the majority of them.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 14, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anata

Wammos making a comeback.

Sweet now I can go back and pwn again with

Mending, live vic, vig spirit, frenzy, heal sig, healing breeze,endure pain, healing hands

OH YA FEAR ME NOW

ender6 · Nov 14, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It has always been used on farming builds not all W/Mo use HB and not the majority of them.

And that is why he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

more

I cringe whenever i see a W/Mo -- then when they ping their skill bar, I cringe once more....

Draginvry · Nov 15, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

I cringe whenever i see a W/Mo -- then when they ping their skill bar, I cringe once more....

And when you see a zero spec Orison, you leave the party. Or worse, a high spec Orison.