Curse

mrmango · Mar 09, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

I know why tanking sucks, but I can't seem to articulate it to my guild. So I was hoping you intelligent folks could help me tell them why it sucks.

One of the things I forgot the answer to was "well if you prot up the warrior and send him in first, they can still use enchantment removal".

And heck, if someone makes a good post it can be quoted for years to come when "how do i tank" threads pop up, every so often. Thanks.

And oh yeah, I searched for a relevant thread, couldn't find one. If there is one I missed, please link me.

Arkantos · Mar 09, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

It's because they're not needed. When you bring a tank, you waste one of your party spots for a defensive character that does nothing but take aggro, which is a huge waste. All you need is a standard warrior with PS and a cover enchantment on two to take aggro, and then do what warriors should do, which is deal damage.

In the end, you can have a tank take the initial aggro, stand there and use defensive skills, or you can have a standard warrior take the initial aggro, and start dealing damage.

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 09, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Tell them, other than body blocking the only way a warrior can hold aggro (and not for long) is to use [wiki]save yourselves[/wiki] For the few seconds SY is up, you will have the lowest amount of armor in the group, making you seem the squishiest to the baddies. As far as sending you in first, a warrior should always be the first to close on a mob to take the first hits. You'll have all the aggro at first, but since the draw aggro by holding an item effect was removed, I haven't seen a reliable way to stop the PVE warriors from eventually going after your casters.

Tell them, a warrior attacking and using save yourselves is the closest he will come to holding aggro and you get the bonus of doing damage at the same time.

Div · Mar 09, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Having a pure tank allows for bad full-healing monk bars by compensating with a bunch of defensive stuff on the warrior. However, all you need to do is take better monk bars and it'll free up the warrior to take damage skill that'll kill the monsters faster. With SY up, your warrior is good to go even without pure tanking skills.

The reason why tanking is so popular amongst PUGs and bad players is because monks generally have horrible bars (or don't know how to use the better bars). In that case, not having defensive skills will often cause that character to die, and result in a team wipe. However, in a good team, you don't have to worry about that, and you can focus more on killing stuff.

(But obviously when you tell your guild about it, don't say they're bad. Or else they'll just get defensive and argue for having tanks even more, like most people do. Just tell them that modifying the monk bars so they're more efficient will save you from needing a tank.)

JDRyder · Mar 09, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

if ur team/monks suck they need it and seeing how about 90% of all monks in pve are full heal they dont know how to use prot spirit on wars and sending him in

I think a big reason of why ppl think tank is good is due to lack of prot monks. why have 1 unkillable target when with a good monk set up "and the team playing with half a brain" every 1 can be use as unkillable. doing this will make you are more mobile. and you can roll passed every thing faster

monks are a good place to start when it comes to getting ur guild off "tanking" heres some set ups

Monk bar 1
Healing 12+1+1 DF 9+1 Prot 9+1
[skill]word of healing[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]Protective spirit[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]guardian[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill]

Monk bar 2
DF 12+1+1 Prot 12+1
[skill]blessed light[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]Spirit bond[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]Divine healing[/skill][skill]Heaven's delight[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill]

or

Monk bar 1
Healing 12+1+1 DF 12+1
[skill]healer's boon[/skill][skill]orison of healing[/skill][skill]dwayna's kiss[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]heal other[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]heal party[/skill]

Monk bar 2
Prot 12+1+1 Healing 9+1 DF 9+1
[skill]shield of deflection[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]Protective spirit[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]shield of absorption[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]gift of health[/skill]

After you get your monks set up wars are next "seeing how they will have the most noob skills most the time" here are some war builds that i find to work really nice in pve, also war 4 is a must have IMO

war 1
Axe 12+1+1, Str 12+1
[skill]eviscerate[/skill][skill]executioner's strike[/skill][skill]disrupting chop[/skill][skill]furious axe[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]distracting blow[/skill]rez

war 2
axe 12+1+1, Str 12+1
[skill]Cleave[/skill][skill]dismember[/skill][skill]executioner's strike[/skill][skill]disrupting chop[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]distracting blow[/skill]rez

war 3
sword 12+1+1, Srt 12+1
[skill]sever artery[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]dragon slash[/skill][skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]distracting blow[/skill]rez

war 4
Hammer 12+1+1, Srt 12+1
[skill]earth shaker[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]hammer bash[/skill] [skill]counter blow[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]distracting blow[/skill]rez

after that w/e you run is up to you or w/e zone you are in. some skills i like to have on others are
[skill]ward against melee[/skill]
[skill]Blackout[/skill]
[skill]shatter enchantment[/skill]or[skill]drain enchantment[/skill]or[skill]rend enchantments[/skill]
[skill]leech signet[/skill]
[skill]cry of frustration[/skill]
[skill]maelstrom[/skill]+[skill]icy shackles[/skill]
[skill]Blinding flash[/skill]or[skill]blinding surge[/skill]
[skill]Lightning orb[/skill]
[skill]rigor mortis[/skill]
[skill]enfeebling blood[/skill]

keep in mind that all the skills are not up to date in the icons

and dont forget no builds i post "for the most part" are 100% as in you need every skill in it to work. on the monks and wars a few skills can be changed for w/e you need/want. on the monks make sure you have a Prot spirit, aegis is nice to have, and something to help them with energy. as for the wars theres a TON of good war builds, but plz dont run a mending/healing hands war. charge is nice in pve IMO i run dual charge a lot on the wars and i fly passed missions easy

Schmerdro · Mar 09, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Tanking doesn't suck if you use Ward Against Foes, Grasping Earth, or maybe even Deep Freeze. But in any other case, yeah they should have some balance between offensive and defensive skills. Oh, and if you have a, what seems to be called in this forum, the Imbagon you can make all party members tanks, all the time. This is just the only thing that I could think of that hasn't been mentioned.

Racthoh · Mar 09, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

It's really freaking slow, and one mess up generally means you wipe because all of your nukers, healer monks, protection monks, and whatever other coined terms for casters are running radiants and superior runes.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 09, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Monsters go after low armour characters. Specifically the casters. They will pass the tank. Hence useless.

There's Nothing to Fear and Save Yourselves make tanking unneeded anyways. Who needs a dedicated tanking character when the whole party is laughing off the enemy's attempts at damage?

fenix · Mar 09, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Simply, rather than bringing a tank to take all the damage, which if it fails will kill EVERYONE, just bring some passive defense and GOOD monk bars.

2 Word of Healing monk heroes will be enough, then bring something like, E/Mo's with Aegis or Heal Party, or bring a skill like Save Yourselves on a Paragon or Warrior. Hell, if you bring a Paragon or 2 you get MORE than enough defense.

Tanks just waste time.

Jenn · Mar 09, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It's really freaking slow, and one mess up generally means you wipe because all of your nukers, healer monks, protection monks, and whatever other coined terms for casters are running radiants and superior runes.

You mean 400 HP isn't a good thing?! BUT I NEEEEEEEEEDS 106 ENERGY WITH MY MIND BLAST BUILD...

But really, something like an Obsidian Flesh tank is quite pointless. Most well organized parties can do with an "aggro-gatherer" instead of a full tank. If your monks are aware, and your aggro-dude is communicative, you should be fine. The rest of your midliners should be conscious of where the aggro-guy is, where they are, and where the enemies are to best negate damage done to them (yes, you can use positioning in PvE...). Is gud thing when people use common sense in PvE O.O Makes things die quicker...

Racthoh · Mar 09, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Taking aggro is a thing of the past. In the prophecies only days two groups basically meant you were going to wipe, that was the mindset everyone had. With the skills we have today taking on one group at a time is slow and dull.

I prefer organized chaos.

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Nothing you can explain over the game will work. You need to bring them into the warrior forums where we can beat the stupid and idiot out of them and turn them into W/E shock axes that make monks cry for Dwayna