Curse

Flem · Feb 28, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Actually, tanking is only considered viable if you and your team are bad at GW, and fails at prot/kiting/passive defense and imbagons. A lot of PuGs do, though they've got ursan now.

That's an ignorant statement. You seem to be good at those. You only consider one build viable for PvE. Your so hard headed it hurts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Players are free to play tanks; we aren't going to stop them. However, we aren't going to tell them that tanking is any good either.

But you insist on telling them that your opinions=fact....I detect fallacies.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 28, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

apart from some nice PvE builds, the builds are terrible.
Don't bother looking in the PvP section ;-)

For the PvP builds, the standard Cripshot and Shockaxe kinda templates are fine, then again - near enough everyone in PvP knows them builds already, so it's hard to screw up with them.

and @ Flem

o okai

lulz

Dr Strangelove · Feb 28, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

All you cookie cutter noobs think warriors are only good for dealing damage, but I'm a special unique snowflake, so I use my warrior as a spirit spammer. I'm so nonconformist and cool.

Yichi · Feb 28, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

@ Flem

o okai

lulz

You haven't learned to just give up this fight and just sit back and laugh yet? I mean honestly, it's not worth trying to give some people actual useful information anymore...

Stormlord Alex · Feb 28, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

You haven't learned to just give up this fight and just sit back and laugh yet? I mean honestly, it's not worth trying to give some people actual useful information anymore...

Pretending to give a damn to see him respond gets so many more laughs though

Cherng Butter · Feb 28, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Just because Warriors have [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill][skill]Riposte[/skill] doesn't mean that they should use them.

I did Slaver's the other day with 6 other alliance members. We had 2 sins, 1 warrior, 1 paragon, and 1 ranger. No tanks, we just ran 3 copies of Save Yourselves! and an Orders Dervish and tore through things. It wasn't planned or anything, but it was a hell of a lot more fun and effective than me sitting still with Obsidian Flesh or something.

Yes, I ran the "cookie-cutter" SY! Dragon Slash build. Is that the only thing I could have run? No. Triple Chop, Cleave, W/D Scythe, blah blah. As long as I'm ripping through things, I've fulfilled my role. Honestly, just run in ahead of your teammates with Prot spirit and SoA on you, and you're fine.

Crom The Pale · Feb 28, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Tanking is a style of play, not the best or most effective but it does work and is rather simple to do.

Any class can tank, but would you really want to bring an elemental/monk that was running earth/healing with,
[skill]armor of earth[/skill][skill]kinetic armor[/skill][skill]stoneflesh aura[/skill][skill]ward against melee[/skill][skill]heal party[/skill][skill]Healing Whisper[/skill][skill]word of healing[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]???

Alicendre · Feb 28, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

All you cookie cutter noobs think warriors are only good for dealing damage, but I'm a special unique snowflake, so I use my warrior as a spirit spammer. I'm so nonconformist and cool.

You're a noob, I have teh l337 tactic: I run a bar without any skill and /dance in front of mobs with my pwnsome undies.
But don't tell anyone cos that's gonna be the new cookie-cutter!!!1

Flem · Feb 29, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

All you cookie cutter noobs think warriors are only good for dealing damage, but I'm a special unique snowflake, so I use my warrior as a spirit spammer. I'm so nonconformist and cool.

What a sad, little, trend-following man you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

Just because Warriors have [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill][skill]Riposte[/skill] doesn't mean that they should use them.

lol, why not use them again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Tanking is a style of play, not the best or most effective but it does work and is rather simple to do.

So your telling me that a 55/SS dual farm isn't effective? It's a two man party doing the job it is meant to take 8 to do. That counts as tanking, btw.

isamu kurosawa · Feb 29, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

That's an ignorant statement. You seem to be good at those. You only consider one build viable for PvE. Your so hard headed it hurts.

Its the truth.

It happens to be tank setups that are stuck with single build structures. A good player can make a viable team out of any mix of professions whereas a tanking setup alienates whole professions let alone buillds.

To the OP:

I suggest you ignore anybody who speaks well about the viability of tanking. You have chosen a warrior and are able to inflict serious damage to your foes. Thats the way warriors where intended to be played by the game developers and its also the most enjoyable.

Killing shit > standing still taking hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

So your telling me that a 55/SS dual farm isn't effective? It's a two man party doing the job it is meant to take 8 to do. That counts as tanking, btw.

That counts as farming, not regular gameplay. Farming builds should never be reffered to in any regular game play discussion as they can make skills as bad as mending effective. Farming involves tricking AI and is only done in smaller numbers for the chance of greater loot. If you get the same rare item/money drop ratio from a full team then most people would give up solo/duo as an 8 man team is faster.

Flem · Feb 29, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Its the truth.

It happens to be tank setups that are stuck with single build structures. A good player can make a viable team out of any mix of professions whereas a tanking setup alienates whole professions let alone buillds.

To the OP:

I suggest you ignore anybody who speaks well about the viability of tanking. You have chosen a warrior and are able to inflict serious damage to your foes. Thats the way warriors where intended to be played by the game developers and its also the most enjoyable.

Killing shit > standing still taking hits.

Pretty much every class is completely capable of dealing nice damage. Only a few class combos are effective at tanking.

Since the begining of GW, Warrior has been an effective tank. To deny the fact that a Warrior is extremely capable of preforming one of the roles that it was intended to play, is nieve at best.

Quote:

That counts as farming, not regular gameplay. Farming builds should never be reffered to in any regular game play discussion as they can make skills as bad as mending effective. Farming involves tricking AI and is only done in smaller numbers for the chance of greater loot. If you get the same rare item/money drop ratio from a full team then most people would give up solo/duo as an 8 man team is faster.

That combo may be considered farming, but it can be used it a multitude of PvE play situations.

If a team of two can complete of mission instead of 8, do they no longer count as completeing the mission just because it's a "farming" build? But, thats beside the point.

Having a tank (any of the various forms of it) is a very effective way to play PvE. That might not be your style, fine. Don't claim that it's not effective or widely used, because it is. GW has always had tanking as a part of game play.

Oh, and your statement of "killing shit>standing still taking hit".....what is that even supposed to mean?

No matter what icons are pictured, it all comes down to pressing buttons labeled 1-8. If your team gets through what ever part of the game your trying for, then that's the goal. It doesnt matter if you inflict the final blow or deal the most damage. It's a team effort and if you can keep your team safe by having the enemies waste their time on you, then job well done.

Warriors can tank, deal damage, shutdown, pressure, be a runner, and dance like a pimp. Why do you box yourselves in to one little aspect? If that's what you want to do, fine. But quit trying to confine every new player into the same little chamber.

This is why warriors typically have the "meat head" reputation. You guys think so 2-D.

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 29, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

A couple of years ago, when a Warrior could fill his bar with stances and hold an item to draw aggro, tanking was a completely viable and easy way to beat some difficult areas of the game using only 3-4 players. This was when the term "Tank" became popular in Guild Wars. But when A Net stopped that draw aggro effect, most people have (slowly) learned that a Warrior is much more useful in a team because of his ability to stand in the front lines and deal out the highest dps and aoe dmg possible in the game.

With the skill, "Save Yourselves!" A Net has created a way for Warriors to once again draw aggro, but now they don't have to holding an item. A warrior (or two)spamming SY has the lowest amount of armor on the team and therefore seems like the squishiest target to PVE baddies. They can draw aggro and still whale away at the enemies, aka killing sh*t. Why, when you can use the old trick of drawing aggro AND do huge amounts of damage, would you nerf yourself and ONLY be a tank?

Flem · Feb 29, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

A couple of years ago, when a Warrior could fill his bar with stances and hold an item to draw aggro, tanking was a completely viable and easy way to beat some difficult areas of the game using only 3-4 players. This was when the term "Tank" became popular in Guild Wars. But when A Net stopped that draw aggro effect, most people have (slowly) learned that a Warrior is much more useful in a team because of his ability to stand in the front lines and deal out the highest dps and aoe dmg possible in the game.

With the skill, "Save Yourselves!" A Net has created a way for Warriors to once again draw aggro, but now they don't have to holding an item. A warrior (or two)spamming SY has the lowest amount of armor on the team and therefore seems like the squishiest target to PVE baddies. They can draw aggro and still whale away at the enemies, aka killing sh*t. Why, when you can use the old trick of drawing aggro AND do huge amounts of damage, would you nerf yourself and ONLY be a tank?

The oldest tank trick in the book, let the tank go and piss everyone off and then force them to stay close (with skills like grasping earth). With 1 person with all def. and everyone else with all damage skills (cept for monks of course), the huddled group of enemies drops almost instantly. It's fun, fast, and effective.

That's just one example, be creative.

Yukito Kunisaki · Feb 29, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Actually Flem, the GW makers ARE the most creative. Wars are NOT intended to be shields despite the AL Almighty ranking they have.

In GW, the Warrior is the class that can afford NOT to be meat shield and out damage Casters due to combination of Armor ignoring DoT and Deep Wound conditioning.

Boxing newbies into the 'GW warriors don't tank, they do as much damage as they can how they can' is actually a smart thing for Savio and others to be teaching.

My gripe is that Warriors are being told we can't keep single skills on our skill bars to help us do more damage. [no warrior skill I know does more damage than barbs at 10 curses. Can a necro do it? Yeah, better, but the pugs I go with do NOT bring 16 curses Barbs so there ;P I don't spam it, but for those annoying bosses that show up, it's a Godsend]

If you want to be a meatshield, for God Sakes get OUT of Guild Wars and play EVERY OTHER FUSKING MMO OUT THERE WITH MELEE FIGHTER'S WHO COULDN'T HURT SHIT AT LEVEL 999...

Here in GW, us in yo face types get rewarded with dead bodies at our feet faster than other classes usually. The secondary utility determines what it is you'd do to make situations worse for your foes.

A warrior that kills is greater than one who can't. I'm for the tank that survives second and kills first...

Priority should be:

Killing
Survival
Boost damage [ala barbs, Well of Ruin, Rend enchantments, etc.]

KILL MR. WARRIOR KILL YOU MUST!

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 29, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

@ Flem, If you can name ONE area of the game where a Warrior or any other profession acting solely as a pure tank, would be easier to beat, then I believe your argument would have more credibility. In other words, name an area, (it doesn't even have to be a whole Mission or quest) where a player only using self defensive stances or skills, that can be beaten easier than if that player were using their best attack, heal, or enemy shutdown skills.

Yichi · Feb 29, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

that won't happen because honestly, there aren't any areas that require you to tank and be more effective than actually doing damage with a compitent team build.

Flem · Feb 29, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

@ Flem, If you can name ONE area of the game where a Warrior or any other profession acting solely as a pure tank, would be easier to beat, then I believe your argument would have more credibility. In other words, name an area, (it doesn't even have to be a whole Mission or quest) where a player only using self defensive stances or skills, that can be beaten easier than if that player were using their best attack, heal, or enemy shutdown skills.

Actually, my argument is that ALL areas can be handled, at least, EQUALLY as effective as a SY build.

Savio · Feb 29, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Actually, my argument is that ALL areas can be handled, at least, EQUALLY as effective as a SY build.

And you're wrong as completion times and success rates for areas are universally better for good non-tank groups than for good tank groups.

Flem · Feb 29, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

And you're wrong as completion times and success rates for areas are universally better for good non-tank groups than for good tank groups.

Please show me these statistics.

Tank groups allow for mobs to practically be instant killed when huddled, require no downtime, and have a wide selection of possible party members and classed to be used. How is that inefficient?

Savio · Feb 29, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

The fastest UW, FoW, DoA, etc. runs don't involve tanks. Care to show me evidence that supports tanking?