Curse

femaro · Mar 11, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Hi, first of all I usually play a monk with my friend who is a ranger.
I tried sabway and all different builds and created a few things including sabway to make vanquishing as easy as possible.
Well my build is nothing really special, but I'd still like your comment on it and how I can improve it.

The idea of this build is basically apart from sabway get the mob balled up snare AoE, spread conditions, IV drop dead after 2 seconds....

The first one is slightly more defensive:

The second one more offencive:

For ideas how to improve this build different builds i could/should use I'd be thankful!
femaro

Btw: The monk bar can vary really depending on the area i played rc a lot the last times to synergize with the feasting nec.

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 11, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

You're using an outdated form of Sabway, just to let you know. Drop Extinguish on the Jagged MM for Remove Hex and drop something on the SS for Pure was Li Ming.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with it. Especially since you're lucky enough to have someone to vanquish with.

arsie · Mar 11, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Why does a vanquish build needs commenting? Just pick the hardest zone and you'll find out if your build works or not.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 11, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

You run a very very very similar build to what i run in HM with my Partner. The only major difference is that we run a Defensive Anthem Paragon instead of a SoR one. DA in HM is a HUGE pressure relief more than SoR can overheal because the damage in HM is so high. You already have Life and PvK to take care of party heals you wont need the extra SoR.

Thats my 0.02$ on your build, hope it helpy

femaro · Mar 11, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Thx @all so far thats what i was hoping for!

@ Marty I did the SS version of Li Ming and another version of power drain +leech sig. although i personnally liked the second choice better it seems just unnecessary because dazed + minions gets everything Li Ming might be a good condition remove but i scince i have extinguish and either 1 or 2 mend on the necs + feast it was over cond remove...
I've tried remove hex too but havent made a choice which i like better extinguish or hex remove i'll try it out some more!

@ D E L E T E D
thx a bunch, i gotta try that tmrw!!!

Gift3d · Mar 11, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

You're using an outdated form of Sabway, just to let you know. Drop Extinguish on the Jagged MM for Remove Hex and drop something on the SS for Pure was Li Ming.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with it. Especially since you're lucky enough to have someone to vanquish with.

Hate how people think anything with 3 necros is "LOLZ SABWAY". That dude didn't invent the 3 necros, he just made it popular. I've been using MM+SS combination for soul reaping for EVER, i just never thought of using a N/Rt healer. I think the N/Rt sucks for HM (great for NM and easy stuff though) and always vanquish with a channeling monk. Other then that your build's great, just a little too much anti-melee measures i think... not bad though. I like.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 11, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

@Gift3d
Regarding the N/Rt healer. Heros are and will always be only really efficient at making red bars go up. The N/Rt healer can do that + it has alot of condition removal with WoR and that one healing skill that needs the spirit up.
The Hero AI cant use Prot Skills, and especially since hes a monk himself he should take over the full prot part and let the heros make red bars go up.
And you could make a N/Mo to make red bars go up but the drawbacks to that is that it will have less condition removal, you will loose the chance to take extra support skills like Splinter/Ancestors and you loose the best res skill in the game at the moment(DPS).
So in conclusion for a hero a N/Rt healer is the best choice for your backline regardless of what mode you play in.

And i agree with femaro you dont need even more condition removal other than WoR and MBaS. I acctually dropped my Dismiss Condition for an extra Prot. And if people argue that your team might get pressured, well that usually gets all cleaned up with Life and PvK.

femaro · Mar 11, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

@ Gift3d
I don't understand y to take a channeling monk it just doesn't make too much sense for me personally (I hope I didn't mess up and u mean the mes skill channeling and not a short cut for sth else) when I started Gw i used channeling all the time until I realised that there are hardly any mob on me and so i didnt get any e back...Correct me pls if I am completely mistaken here...
For the "not enough anti melee" part recommend a skill.^^
I always thought aegis chain blurred could do the job...(plus of course prots)

Thx again!
femaro

Spaced Invader · Mar 13, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I'd say he is referring to the Ritualist's Channeling line.

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Overall the build looks pretty good, no real complaints. There's a couple of obvious suggestions to improve the build further.

Make the second player a God-mode Paragon with There's Nothing to Fear! and Save Yourselves! Replace the P/W Party Support with a BHA/Volley/Epidemic hero...basically a straight P for R, R for P swap. If you can't do that (the second player doesn't have a Paragon), drop Song of Restoration for Defensive Anthem as suggested. You've got a heap of squishies in the party, DA does a great job protecting them.

Get Splinter Weapon into the build, the most obvious place is on the N/Rt Restorer by replacing Vengeful Weapon.

Weaken Armor is useful for AoE Cracked Armor, which will make everyone including the Minions more effective. I'd drop Rip Enchantment for Weaken Armor on the SS.

You're using Foul Feast on the Softening Bile N/E - why not use Plague Sending instead of Rotting Flesh to use those conditions offensively? Rotting Flesh can backfire against you, so i don't really like it.

A Softening Bile hero's probably of lesser value to the team than a second Paragon with Stunning Strike / Song of Purification / Hexbreaker Aria / Expel Hexes / Empathic Removal...whatever's needed, while still doing huge DPS. To free up the slot for a second Paragon you could move Icy Veins to the N/Rt Restorer and Rising Bile / Putrid Bile / Rip Enchantment to the MM, almost completely absorbing the N/E. Given you've got 2 x PS and 3 x Aegis, the MM doesn't need a Mo secondary.

The E/Mo is interesting, i'll give that a try, looks a bit like the Shatterstone. I'd possibly replace it with an E/Rt Blindbot Channeler - does the same anti-melee job but with 90% miss. It's a strong character who can bang out Weakness, Cracked Armor and Blind, which the BHA can spread via Epidemic. It also makes room for Splinter Weapon & Ancestor's Rage. There is overlap between the Blindbot and the SS (Weakness / Cracked Armor / Reckless Haste) and the N/Rt Restorer (Splinter Weapon), so you're E/Mo makes a worthwhile alternative to a Blindbot. I'm not really sure snares + Maelstrom adds anything significant to the team, I'd probably take a WoH hybrid or a D/N Arcane Orders / N/Mo Order of the Vampire to support the 2 Paras and Ranger, plus bang out party heals every few seconds. A N/Rt OotV could alternately take Splinter and Ancestor's for more offense.

These are just suggestions, take them or leave them. It's a nice build as it is.

femaro · Mar 14, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Thx a lot ill try it out and find out whats best for me..unfortunately my friend only plays a ranger^^
I made the ele up myself but only did it recently...if u test it further just give a comment bout how it worked out for u pls!
thx

edit: for the arcane zeal d/n does order effect minions?? that'd be leet

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by femaro

for the arcane zeal d/n does order effect minions?? that'd be leet

Nup. Cracked Armor will help.

Considering your mate only has a Ranger, a definite improvement would be to swap Volley for Apply Poison and drop Epidemic for Save Yourselves! +100 armor to the rest of the party will give you more room to play with offensively. You've got Death Nova for Poison and a Paragon can take Epidemic

VitisVinifera · Mar 14, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Looks great! I really wish I could have done most of my vanq'ing with another person, because that icy veins/dual bile build would rock hardcore in hardmode. I tried using it myself in nm and things generally die too fast for it to be effective.

femaro · Mar 14, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

OK I'll try that... guess u'd have to micro epidemic for the para to use it effectively, or isn't that necessary?

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

If Epidemic will hit, they'll use it.

I tried your E/Mo snarer - works well and i can see it synergising well with Epidemic. It causes scatter, but that just gives your squishies time to kite. If you could fit Blind into the build (maybe Burning Spear on the Paragon/s + Steam on the E/Mo instead of Blurred Vision), spreading Daze + Blindness would be awesome-sauce.

I wouldn't take both a Blindbot and an SS, but i might take a Snarer and an SS. I use about a dozen Hero builds depending on the zone, this one will slot into the mix

[edit] I took out two Paragons and the Snarer to test the build. Heroes rock with Epidemic and only use it if it will hit adjacent foes. Burning Spear / Anthem of Flame + Steam + Epidemic works to spread blind. This + BHA will spread the two most damaging conditions in the game against foes. Let's not forget Burning, Bleeding, Poison, Weakness, Cracked Armor and Deep Wound.

Another option to consider is Fevered Dreams if you're keen on spreading conditions. Maybe drop the N/E for a Fevered Dreams / Domination Mesmer. Fevered Dreams also works on a Paragon.

femaro · Mar 14, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

haha thx!
Anyways i made the changes haven't tested it out yet just somewhat changed the build overall..
I am not very sure this will work but that's what you guys are for :P
Ok open ur mouth baby here it comes:

Consider that I'm quite tired and haven't tryed this out.
Monk bar can vary a little, scince this build is way more offencive and SY! has to absorb a lot i took rc (cause 2 big cond. removed are gone).
For the ele i dunno bout energy matters hope it works and the defence can manage...that's what i think is gonna be tough
and...yea basically figure the rest out for urselfs..like i said gotta do some testing in the next days..

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by femaro

haha thx!
Anyways i made the changes haven't tested it out yet just somewhat changed the build overall..
I am not very sure this will work but that's what you guys are for :P
Ok open ur mouth baby here it comes:

Consider that I'm quite tired and haven't tryed this out.
Monk bar can vary a little, scince this build is way more offencive and SY! has to absorb a lot i took rc (cause 2 big cond. removed are gone).
For the ele i dunno bout energy matters hope it works and the defence can manage...that's what i think is gonna be tough
and...yea basically figure the rest out for urselfs..like i said gotta do some testing in the next days..

Drop the Orders stuff from the Snarer, it won't work - the bar's too energy heavy and the sac is better handled with a D/N or N/X. Leave it as you had it for the second Aegis, maybe try Steam for Blurred Vision. I'd consider the Snarer your optional slot for either an Orders or a WoH.

Chest Thumper's good, i use that too. Replace Vicious with Wild Throw for stance removal - Chest Thumper's your Deep Wound.

Move Rip to the MM and give the SS Death Pact Signet again.

I'd drop Foul Feast altogether, use Song of Purification instead of Defensive Anthem on the P/W Party Support for condition relief.

Move Defensive Anthem to the Stunning Striker - you've got BHA for Daze.

The SoP Para and N/Rt have condition removal covered. This should free up your own bar. I'm a little worried about healing now, so maybe consider Word of Healing for your elite. Take Dwayna's Kiss too. Swap Remove Hex for Cure Hex and you're back on track.

femaro · Mar 14, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

little correction i guess u meant wild thro not wild strike :P

Updated version:

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by femaro

little correction i guess u meant wild thro not wild strike :P

Right you are

The only major change i'd try is swap the E/Mo for the D/N for better healing and physical buffs. Should be fine with WoH in there now. Alternately, with Save Yourselves in there, you could drop Watch Yourselves! and Shields Up! for Mending Refrain and Finale of Restoration.

Ebon Battle Standard of Honor on the Ranger will buff it and the Paragons bigtime too. As long as they're all in the ward, it's a nice addition. I'd drop Winnowing for the battle standard.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 14, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

With an RC in the build and having so many squishies i would no way change DA for SoP. There arent even enough conditions in PvE to ever require that skill.
Other than that i agree that you should revert back to your old Snare bar.
Not sure on the P/Me but the P/W looks exactly like mine