Curse

the lesser · Mar 07, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

does anyone have a monk build that uses no nightfall skills? and could still be respected?

xDusT II · Mar 07, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Word of Healing, Dwayna's Kiss, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Condition/Ailment, Holy Veil/Remove Hex, Protective Spirit, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Aegis.

Yichi · Mar 08, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Word of Healing, Dwayna's Kiss, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Condition/Ailment, Holy Veil/Remove Hex, Protective Spirit, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Aegis.

This is going to be about your best bet for a good build without dismiss and cure hex.

JDRyder · Mar 08, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

think you may want to look at the monk sticky and some more guides
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/index.p...138&highlight=
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2844
they are a little out of date but they go over A LOT. This will help you make your own build and play better over all, the guides are for pvp but pvp monk builds/tactics work better then any pve monk build ive seen. Only thing is you will know what you will be fighting so you will know if you need DH,RC,WoH,SoD,HB ect

Luminarus · Mar 08, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Elites I use that arent NF:

WoH
Blessed Light
Restore Condition

WoH has been shown above,

Blessed Light is good in relatively hex heavy areas, because it has decent heal, & good bonus as well as being in DF which boosts all your other skills.

I run:
[skill]Blessed Light[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Gift Of Health[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill]

RC bar is basically the same but for condition heavy areas, slightly changed attributes and pop off [skill]Mend Condition[/skill] for either [skill]Holy Veil[/skill] [skill]Remove Hex[/skill] or [skill]Convert Hexes[/skill]. Only use convert if you find yourself with lotsa spare energy.

For PVe WoH is best generally, but because you should know whats coming, the others can be a better option. For PVP I like Blessed Light because its overall more variably to the situations. (In PVP swap [skill]Mend Condition[/skill] with [skill]Mend Ailment[/skill])

Burst Cancel · Mar 08, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Re: Luminarus:

Blight isn't worth taking for a number of reasons. It can't actually serve as a primary heal, hex removal, or condition removal, and therefore fails to provide any bar compression because you will still have to take other heals, other condition removal, and other hex removal. In other words, it is a strictly inferior option unless two out of its three 'conditions' are met, and even then its primary benefit isn't saving you energy (because it definitely isn't), but rather time (both cast time and recharge). Against the right kinds of teams it's quite strong (if we consider that neither Divert or Cure Hex are available to the OP), but overall it depends on conditions largely outside of your control.

Overall, I think you will get more mileage out of WoH than Blight. Swap in Dwayna's Kiss (which should heal for massive amounts under hex pressure) for Gift, and drop Guardian for Remove Hex.

Actually, the OP says no Nightfall skills, but what about EoTN skills? Cure Hex is very strong hex removal for PvE, and is a strong argument for not bringing Blight.

From what I can see, the only major deficiency in not having Nightfall access is the loss of Shield of Absorption, which is ridiculously strong for a non-elite skill. There isn't really anything that can replace it in its PvE context, so slotting in emgt or Guardian is probably your best bet.

ender6 · Mar 08, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Just because people forgot to mention:

[skill]restore condition[/skill] always good when used in tandem with a [skill]word of healing[/skill] monk

Kwan Xi · Mar 08, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

This is going to be about your best bet for a good build without dismiss and cure hex.

Cure Hex is a Eye of the North Skill if you have the expansion you can use it. Otherwise Remove Hex, Holy Veil, or even Reverse Hex from Factions can work if you can handle the 10 energy.

Winterclaw · Mar 08, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

WoH
Signet of Rejuv
Remove Hex
Mend Condition
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond or Aegis
GoLE
Rebirth/res chant

JDRyder · Mar 09, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

didnt want long quote

tell that to tommy ...

Blight owns face "still want to see it get a little buff/nerf" 1 of the best monks in the game uses it for gvg
build is [skill]blessed light[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]Divine healing[/skill][skill]Heaven's delight[/skill]and then [skill]Protective spirit[/skill]or[skill]Spirit bond[/skill] and[skill]aegis[/skill]or[skill]guardian[/skill] what makes Blessed light better then Cure hex is the rechage even tho its 10e with GoLE i have np with the Build. also next to veil, cure is phail imo

samcobra · Mar 09, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Tommy's silly. He runs Dual LoD monks.

Don't run what Tommy runs.

Burst Cancel · Mar 09, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

tell that to tommy ...

Blight owns face "still want to see it get a little buff/nerf" 1 of the best monks in the game uses it for gvg
build is [skill]blessed light[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]Divine healing[/skill][skill]Heaven's delight[/skill]and then [skill]Protective spirit[/skill]or[skill]Spirit bond[/skill] and[skill]aegis[/skill]or[skill]guardian[/skill] what makes Blessed light better then Cure hex is the rechage even tho its 10e with GoLE i have np with the Build. also next to veil, cure is phail imo

And you'd almost be right ... except we're talking about PvE, as this is a PvE forum.

What Tommy runs in GvG has a shit-ton of nothing to do with what should be run in PvE. And don't give me that tired Veil crap. The ability to pre-veil in PvE is worthless in all but a handful of extremely specific situations.

Throwing out "but but but, Tommy runs this in GvG!" isn't an argument; it's a logical fallacy called "appeal to authority". I note you don't bother to address any of my points on their merits; either you, Tommy, or anyone else is welcome to post a response in this thread outlining why, in general PvE, I would want to run Blight over WoH. I'm always happy to learn something new.

Ensign · Mar 09, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

You'd want to run BLight over WoH in PvE if your team is blowing everything up, you're not taking much damage, and you just want it to clean people like crazy or spike heal is bursts. That's why it was run in GvG in the old meta (it isn't good anymore), and why you'd run it in certain PvE builds.

Racthoh · Mar 09, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Tommy has also used Distracting Shot, and Gale before. And that's just in the past month or so from what I've seen.

If you don't have Nightfall, WoH or Blight. Not having Divert Hexes kinda sucks as it outclasses Blight in every aspect of PvE but it's decent enough with no other options.

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

tell that to tommy ...

Blight owns face "still want to see it get a little buff/nerf" 1 of the best monks in the game uses it for gvg
build is [skill]blessed light[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]Divine healing[/skill][skill]Heaven's delight[/skill]and then [skill]Protective spirit[/skill]or[skill]Spirit bond[/skill] and[skill]aegis[/skill]or[skill]guardian[/skill] what makes Blessed light better then Cure hex is the rechage even tho its 10e with GoLE i have np with the Build. also next to veil, cure is phail imo

If BLight owns face then WoH owns many faces

JDRyder · Mar 09, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

And you'd almost be right ... except we're talking about PvE, as this is a PvE forum.

What Tommy runs in GvG has a shit-ton of nothing to do with what should be run in PvE. And don't give me that tired Veil crap. The ability to pre-veil in PvE is worthless in all but a handful of extremely specific situations.

Throwing out "but but but, Tommy runs this in GvG!" isn't an argument; it's a logical fallacy called "appeal to authority". I note you don't bother to address any of my points on their merits; either you, Tommy, or anyone else is welcome to post a response in this thread outlining why, in general PvE, I would want to run Blight over WoH. I'm always happy to learn something new.

GvG monk builds are always 1 or 2 skills off from the pve monk bars any way. look at ur pve woh bar then look at a GvG Woh monk, other then a Heal party for aegis and infuse for Dkiss the skills are the same. ive never used a build in gvg that didnt work just as well in pve. seeing how their are no PvP only skills only reason a gvg build will not work id if you have to rely on 1 of the other players to do something but most the thing the build can be changed to fix that, IMO i think "pvp" builds are better for pve then pve builds most the time

JDRyder · Mar 09, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

If BLight owns face then WoH owns many faces

the bar matters more then any 1 skill on the bar

Burst Cancel · Mar 09, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

I played Blight in the old meta; I didn't use the skill that often, because again, if the target doesn't need at least two of the three functions, there's no point in using it. The low recharge means you can use it as a hex removal/spike heal if your primary skill (gift/veil) is recharging, but the energy cost for this convenience is pretty steep.

GvG bars are optimized for GvG; by definition, this means they are not optimized for PvE. The fact that you don't see Infuse or Veil in PvE is instructive - clearly, the conditions of play are different. Your opponents are different, your team builds can (and tend to be) different, and the 'meta' is different. If I know that a particular area has heavy caster presence, I'm not going to run SoD, even if the GvG meta is blockway. If I know an area is mostly hex pressure, I'm going to run Divert, even if I'm running WoH in GvG. Similarly, my build is going to change if the team is a tanknspank, imbagon, ursan, etc.

In short, PvE and GvG are different enough that you can't pull a bar from GvG and say, "this is good for PvE" without examining what GvG-specific assumptions were made in building that bar. The fact that there is a lot of skill overlap is merely evidence that the number of good monk skills is limited no matter the context. Skills like RoF and Prot Spirit are a tier above everything else - the fact that you see them in nearly every monk bar, whether PvP or PvE, says more about how good those particular skills are than about how applicable GvG is to PvE.

JDRyder · Mar 10, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I played Blight in the old meta; I didn't use the skill that often, because again, if the target doesn't need at least two of the three functions, there's no point in using it. The low recharge means you can use it as a hex removal/spike heal if your primary skill (gift/veil) is recharging, but the energy cost for this convenience is pretty steep.

GvG bars are optimized for GvG; by definition, this means they are not optimized for PvE. The fact that you don't see Infuse or Veil in PvE is instructive - clearly, the conditions of play are different. Your opponents are different, your team builds can (and tend to be) different, and the 'meta' is different. If I know that a particular area has heavy caster presence, I'm not going to run SoD, even if the GvG meta is blockway. If I know an area is mostly hex pressure, I'm going to run Divert, even if I'm running WoH in GvG. Similarly, my build is going to change if the team is a tanknspank, imbagon, ursan, etc.

In short, PvE and GvG are different enough that you can't pull a bar from GvG and say, "this is good for PvE" without examining what GvG-specific assumptions were made in building that bar. The fact that there is a lot of skill overlap is merely evidence that the number of good monk skills is limited no matter the context. Skills like RoF and Prot Spirit are a tier above everything else - the fact that you see them in nearly every monk bar, whether PvP or PvE, says more about how good those particular skills are than about how applicable GvG is to PvE.

ive alrdy said this

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

look at ur pve woh bar then look at a GvG Woh monk, other then a Heal party for aegis and infuse for Dkiss they are the same bar

no build is 100% theres always skills you can change for what you want/need, in pve you get to do this more seeing how you know what your going to be fighting but the bars are all the same skill. In pvp the builds go with the meta, but the bars are still the same. you were saying divert hexes id like you to ping a bar with that and im sure it will be with in 2 skills of a GvG bar for DH that was used way back in the hex meta of GvG, same for any monk build. This is cause all monk bars need the same thing, something to prot,heal,remove conditions and hexes and something for energy "i also like some more defence in the build something like guardian or aegis" pvp and pve builds for monk are still the same for the most part if they are not its by 1 or 2 skills or mending+healing breeze ect

also all gvg monks dont use infuse, if you have good prots you dont need it, a lot of teams take it, but a few ive been in didnt and i dont think dR uses it any more for gvg

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 10, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

On the Note about the BLight bar.

When the changes to Divine/Heavens were first made i came up with a very similar bar to what Tommy runs now. I played it for about 2 weeks and here are the problems i had with it compared to your standard WoH bar. I played both bars while playing HM Tyria, specifically the desert.

Advantages:
- Even though the healing of Divine/heavens isnt all that great it is very good to have party healing on your monk. And with a 40/40 set in divine(which is a given when running this bar) its nice to be able to fire one off every 3-8 secs.

Disadvantages:
-Energy Management, with BLight costing 10 energy and it being the only single target healing skills in this build you will find that you will run out of energy alot quicker than on the standard WoH bar.
-Lack of single target healing. Its hard to top the healing power of WoH.

All i can say that, its really nice to have party healing on your monk. My friend ran WoH alongside with me running this build and even though prots here are they key you always need to get the pre prot in. This is why Tommy can run this bar so well and no one else can. He knows exactly wats going on, sees everything and gets the prot in before time so that the little damage that does come through will be cleaned up with Divine/Heaven.

but since no one is as good as tommy i would advice people to run the WoH bar, its a lot more forgiving than the BLight bar