Curse

Moloch Vein · Mar 04, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Your team doesn't have a "damage problem" if Spiteful Spirit is the spell that's designated to do the damage. That all depends on what kind of team setup you're running and if you're controlling aggro or not. However, playing Tank/Spank is a pretty boring way of doing things.

An elementalist has no chance to outdamage an SS during most fights in a high-level HM/PvE area. People who think they can are on crack. The real value of an elementalist on the team is utility in the form of snares, KD, disabling, AoE interrupts and wards.

That said, I haven't run SS often while playing PvE lately. I finished the last tier of my Leg Guard (Elona) playing with a friend, these were our bars if I remember correctly:

Him: (N/A)
Assassin's Promise - Mark Of Pain - Barbs - Rigor Mortis - Shadow Of Fear - Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support - "Finish Him!"/Lightbringer's Gaze - Technobabble
(Curses 12+1+3 Deadly Arts 8 Soul Reaping 10+1)

Me: (N/W)
Order Of Pain - "For Great Justice!" - Flurry - Spoil Victor - Mark Of Fury - "Finish Him!"/Lightbringer's Gaze - Technobabble - "Save Yourselves!"
(Blood 12+1+3 Soul Reaping 12+1)

One of the N heroes (who might or might not run SS) got a Dark Fury slapped on him with a BM5.

Hatchet Child · Mar 04, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Him: (N/A)
Assassin's Promise - Mark Of Pain - Barbs - Rigor Mortis - Shadow Of Fear - Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support - "Finish Him!"/Lightbringer's Gaze - Technobabble
(Curses 12+1+3 Deadly Arts 8 Soul Reaping 10+1)

That skill was almost vital in Kourna areas with Priests.
They were invincible with the build they ran for some reason, bit of Daze and "Finish them!" got them in the end.

bungusmaximus · Mar 04, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I love spiteful tbh, it CAN dish out crazy damage if you're half decent at cornerblocking.
The only other curse elite I would consider taking in pve is corrupt enchantment
(say Byebye dolyak masters

).

Pile up mob->use MoP and spiteful (not on the same target ^^)->cast enfeebling blood->grab a beer->watch the show.

Racthoh · Mar 04, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If things aren't going well; if you run into a mob you can't crack immediately, or you take a death or two, or otherwise stumble against a mob, Spiteful Spirit gets a chance to go crazy and dish out a lot of damage. It doesn't do any encounter-changing jobs, but the raw power of the skill makes it attractive. That it's a skill that really excels when things are going badly is the main reason why I think it's worth a slot on your bar.

I can agree with having skills to fall back on if everything doesn't go according to plan. Having that wider margin of error can be the difference between those one or two deaths and a full wipe. Along the same lines of running minors over superior runes.

However the more humans present in the party the less valuable the skill becomes. In a hero/henchmen scenario I could imagine those situations arising frequently where you can't quite break the mob because you're playing with several sub-optimal bars, and in some cases the AI reacts poorly. Add more humans into the equation and you should be able to coast through most zones without the need for a skill like Spiteful Spirit to go nuts and make up for the shortcomings of the group. If you have good, knowledgeable players with the foresight to bring a source of daze, interrupts, whatever for those occasional tricky mobs then I would reconsider the curses guy. At the very least their choice of elite because Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, and other goodies that can be powered by Soul Reaping are all very useful to the majority of parties.

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 04, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I play with PUGS and hero/henchmen. I dropped SS completely last night and gave [skill=text]assassin's promise[/skill] a try. I love it! also mark of pain, enfeebling blood, price of failure, insidious parasite, barbs, and signet of lost souls. Running this with Olias using MM and Koss with D Slash/For Great Justice! We are kicking some serious butt. I was skeptical about Assassin's Promise, but I'm a true believer now.

Thanks for the replies and build suggestions.

Brian the Gladiator · Mar 05, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

[skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]spiteful spirit[/skill][skill]enfeebling blood[/skill][skill]barbs[/skill][skill]mark of pain[/skill][skill]rip enchantment[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Try this bar and tell me it doesn't PUMP! My buddy and I went into DoA with a full Ursan group and instead of using Ursan, he ran this bar and we blew through DoA faster than I have ever seen.

Arcane Echo really is the difference between mediocrity and a great source of damage...

Calista Blackblood · Mar 05, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I play with PUGS and hero/henchmen. I dropped SS completely last night and gave [skill=text]assassin's promise[/skill] a try. I love it! also mark of pain, enfeebling blood, price of failure, insidious parasite, barbs, and signet of lost souls. Running this with Olias using MM and Koss with D Slash/For Great Justice! We are kicking some serious butt. I was skeptical about Assassin's Promise, but I'm a true believer now.

Thanks for the replies and build suggestions.

didnt take long he he.

cellardweller · Mar 05, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

If your plan is to drop 10 things in 20 seconds then SS is your go. If you want to kill one thing every 2 seconds then AP/Barbs is the method of choice. Which is the more effective is determined by your playstyle.

One thing to consider is the anti synergy inherent in using SS and MoP in the same bar. SS is at its opimal when a melee is holding 6-10 red dots on a corner and RH is on them all, a single MoP cast in this situation will cause the bodyblock break within a second or two in HM. MoP on the other hand, does well when you're running party wide defense and are managing the red dots through "orginised chaos" within wards - SS's damage is at its lowest in these situations.

Carinae · Mar 05, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

[skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]spiteful spirit[/skill][skill]enfeebling blood[/skill][skill]barbs[/skill][skill]mark of pain[/skill][skill]rip enchantment[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

I prefer Envenom Enchants to Rip Enchants, and there are better rez choices, SRS comes to mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Arcane Echo really is situational and sometimes is the difference between mediocrity and a great source of damage...

Fixed.

jiggles · Mar 05, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

ss+ insidious + price of failure = pure win (on a melee enemy ofc. works even better on dervishes or shadow blades in FoW)

i dont give a crap if you think ss is crap, no matter what that enemy does hes taking at least 70 damage, lets say theyre wielding a sword thats 70 damage ever 1.6ish seconds, if that enemys monk is under pressure hes going to die pretty quick. Or he can stop attacking, stand there looking useless and just be killed that way. Fun either way.

Elementalist, lets take about 6 seconds to cause 5 seconds of aoe damage that everybody moves out of wasting half your energy and causing exhaustion, or even better we can use wards, which about about 10 seconds of fighting no ones standing in making them quite useless. An example of this was in a high end gvg i watched today he was running away, casted a ward of melee whilst being chased by 2 warriors the second he casted it he ran out of it and died. How useful.

And if you have to play an elite thats giving you more energy your not playing a necromancer right. Seriously.

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Rip Enchantment is far superior to Envenom since the boost to that skill.

Carinae · Mar 05, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Rip Enchantment is far superior to Envenom since the boost to that skill.

Why? I much prefer to inflict poison on the enemy rather than sac myself. Recharge is the only thing better on Rip, and I don't see that as a major issue since you are only removing one targeted enchant.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 05, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

And if you have to play an elite thats giving you more energy your not playing a necromancer right. Seriously.

this comment is as clear as chocolate so ill assume your talking about [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill]

its not about the energy gain at all

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

The sacrifice from Rip is very low and the recharge is half. The poison effect is pretty useless in PvE. 20 seconds is a very hefty recharge.

Carinae · Mar 05, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

If you're using Rip on-recharge, then you should look into other enchant removal, ie: Rend, Profane or possibly Apostasy.

If you not using Rip on-recharge, then Envenom is superior.

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Apostasy in PvE is overkill. Only time I've used it is Gate of Desolation HM (used it on Zhed, actually.) Profane is good, though.

Kale Ironfist · Mar 05, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Rip is good for the fact that it is very general purpose. It's good in all situations where you need an enchantment removal. By that same token, however, it is never the stellar skill for any situation.

I use it on my heroes because they will never be able to prioritise which enchantments are best to remove, and which aren't. With the lower recharge, they can spam to remove far more often, and in the process, hit something worth removing. Apostasy would be better, but I prefer using other elites. Profane is probably stronger, but isn't available straight from the get go.

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Generally speaking if I'd choose between Rip and Envenom in PvE I'd definitely go with Rip, but if I did actually need enchantment removal, I'd use Profane or Chilblains.

jiggles · Mar 05, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia Dagger Rage

this comment is as clear as chocolate so ill assume your talking about [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill]

its not about the energy gain at all

like to apologise, never ever saw the bottom line of that elite, ill remember to read everything last line.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 05, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

AP was my fav elite for the longest while for almost any class. Specially ele and sin