Curse

Flem · Feb 13, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

* "An" instead of "And" in title. How do I edit the title? *

I took the large adrenaline gain/spike ability of a standard Dragon Slash build and altered it with KD's. The spike damage I deal is slightly less, but the effectiveness of the enemy is greatly reduced. And with so much adrenaline to spare, I can pop LC often. Typically, right after I KD someone and cycle through the attacks, they are trying to run/kite me, in which I Bull's Strike them, bleed them, put on Scorpion Wire, and run in the opposite direction as them. As soon as I spring back to them and KD again, I make sure bleed stayed on, KD again, and attempt to cycle through the attacks again/B.S. and S.W. again until their dead.

[skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill] [skill]Iron Palm[/skill] [skill]Gash[/skill] [skill]Dragon Slash[/skill] [skill]Scorpion Wire[/skill] [skill]Bull's Strike[/skill] [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill] [skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill]

I tried this build in AB last night and it worked nearly perfectly. The only downside is the obvious one, if I get blocked I lose a lot of effectiveness. I am going to try and use [skill]expose defenses[/skill] or [skill]warrior's cunning[/skill] instead of Bull's Strike when I get home. But the blocking issue was acually only an issue about 10% of the time, so I'm not sure if it'll be worth it in AB. Also, since Exp Def. got a nerf the duration is pretty lame and the recharge on W.C. is also lame. Neither seem to be very effective in AB. If I ever try this out in GvG or Arena's those skills would be a lot more useful.

Opinions and constructive criticism welcome. Flaming....not so much.

Yichi · Feb 13, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

so you're going to take out bulls strike, one of the most reliable kd's in the game, and use warriors cunning in its place... on top of having no speed buff AND no ias???

Im not even sure how to respond to this without flaming you. no offense. If I can think of a way I will be sure to let you know.

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 13, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I've been runnin this alot in Aspenwood:

[skill]Devastating Hammer[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Mighty Blow[/skill][skill]Heavy Blow[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Iron Palm[/skill][skill]Scorpion Wire[/skill]

Started using Scorpion wire in place of Bull's strike after the buff. As good as BS is, I've found scorp wire useful in tons of situations. It's not always easy to hit a moving target when they're blocking, have a speed boost, etc. The recharge is now the same as BS so I think it's good trade alot of the time. Iron Palm is a very good alternative to Shock....no exhausion is pretty nice.

I wouldn't use Expose defenses or Warrior's Cunning. Expose is pretty bad after the nerf, and the fat recharge on cunning makes it not really worth using at all. I'm not a fan of using D-slash in any kind of pvp but that's just me.

iridescentfyre · Feb 14, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I took the large adrenaline gain/spike ability of a standard Dragon Slash build and altered it with KD's.

Even in PvE where Dragon Slash is actually viable, it doesn't spike. Not ever. If you have no IAS, no deep wound, and/or no attacks that activate in >1 second, you're not spiking, period. In PvE Dragon Slash spam is DPS, relentless pressure damage over a sustained period of time. In short, the things that make Dragon Slash strong for PvE do not carry over to PvP. No one will sit still and let you unload Dragon Slash over and over again on them until they die, they will block or blind you.

I would not recommend trying to compensate for that by taking Expose Defenses or (lol) Warrior's Cunning. They are bad skills and trying to cover up a flawed build by taking more bad skills is a failing strategy.

Also, why Scorpion Wire instead of just going with [skill=text]Shock[/skill]? Never accept a conditional skill when a non-conditional one is better.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 14, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

no deep wound

In his defense, he does pack deepwound - Barborous Slice + Gash - but Barbarous is a bad skill and can be laughed at.
Essentially, for Barbarous to be good, the build has to be bad.

Tyla · Feb 14, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

No IAS/Speedboost.
LC isn't good.
Why replace Bull's Strike, it's one of the most punishing skills the game has to offer....>.>

iridescentfyre · Feb 14, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

In his defense, he does pack deepwound - Barborous Slice + Gash - but Barbarous is a bad skill and can be laughed at.
Essentially, for Barbarous to be good, the build has to be bad.

Whoops, my mistake.

Still not a spike though, OP.

Crom The Pale · Feb 14, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Iron Palm is just to expensive with to long a recharge to really be effective on a war, though I must admit I have used it myself with [skill]Entangling Asp[/skill] for two quick knockdowns and lots of degen. Mind you I never tried to combo it with Dslash.

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 14, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Iron Palm is just to expensive with to long a recharge to really be effective on a war....

It was changed to 5e a while back. The recharge is fine when you keep in mind that it takes 30secs to fully recover from exhausion. If a war used Shock every 20secs, they'd run into some pretty bad energy problems. The advantage Shock has is being unconditional of course, so it works well when used for spikes. This is much less important in low-end pvp where you're fighting unorganized teams.

Dr Strangelove · Feb 14, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

It was changed to 5e a while back. The recharge is fine when you keep in mind that it takes 30secs to fully recover from exhausion. If a war used Shock every 20secs, they'd run into some pretty bad energy problems. The advantage Shock has is being unconditional of course, so it works well when used for spikes. This is much less important in low-end pvp where you're fighting unorganized teams.

You use shock when you need it. If it gives you energy problems, who cares, it's awesome. Iron palm might be more interesting on a cripslash warrior or somesuch, but for an axe guy, you'd prefer to knockdown your target before eviscerate, not after.

Also, the OP's build is really, really bad.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 14, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Essentially, for Barbarous to be good, the build has to be bad.

Unless it's a dervish with a sword running Hof for an IAS rather than a stance!

Flem · Feb 14, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

1.) I originally had a Frenzy on the bar, but I took too much damage with it, so I removed it and stayed alive longer.

2.) I originally had Sever Artery instead of Barb Strike, but it added no dmg so I used an equally effective bleed skill that also adds dmg.

3.) I know LC has a bad reputation, but I don't care. I will try out any skill. I try to be open minded, that's how the best builds are made. And, I'm sure the skill may be bad in some situations, but its very useful as a self healing for me and I had such an abundant amount of adr. that I could could use it several times back to back if I needed to.

4.) I know most pvp warriors bring a speed boost, blah blah blah, why do you think I brough scorpian wire? I don't need to chase them if I can just teleport to them and KD. Trust me, it works.

5.) Why not go shock? Exhaustion. Also, with /Sin I get 2 knockdowns and one incorporates a "chase-style" skill. Change isn't always bad. I used to run shock, got bored and wanted to try something new. Shoot me.

6.) What's the deal with you guys downing the block-proof skills?? Yea, they are not the most effective ones, but this way I have more KD then if I ran Rigor Mortis.... What do you guys do against another warrior, or monk with guardian, or assassin with flashing blades, or ele with wards, or whatever with whatever block skills? Your ok with none of your attacks ever hitting? Plus, it was a suggestion. You guys are like the freaking build nazi's in here, shit.

7.) I love how some you guys completely ignored that fact that I said I ran it and it was successful. I did again last night, and I again had no issues. The more I run it the more kinks I will work out. What exactly measures how effective a build is other then running it in the intended forum? AB is unorganized and usually with a lot of newish players. Maybe that's why this build works. Maybe it's because I'm playing against players that aren't actually very good themselves. Well, perfect. It doesn't matter why it works, it just matters that it does. And for two full days of AB, I haven't noticed any issues that any build doesn't run into. I only have 8 skills to and one secondary to choose from at a time.

Sorry to rant, but I asked you guys to be nice and helpful and instead you come in here like a bunch of 12 year olds eager to stroke your e-peen. Thanks to the few that defended my right to run a build that strays from the status quo.

iridescentfyre · Feb 14, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

1.) I originally had a Frenzy on the bar, but I took too much damage with it, so I removed it and stayed alive longer.

I don't really know how else to say it; you used it wrong. Bring it alongside Rush and you should never have survivability issues if you use it correctly. There's a reason these tactics are the most popular among PvPers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

2.) I originally had Sever Artery instead of Barb Strike, but it added no dmg so I used an equally effective bleed skill that also adds dmg.

Running Sever with an IAS is much, much more added damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

4.) I know most pvp warriors bring a speed boost, blah blah blah, why do you think I brough scorpian wire? I don't need to chase them if I can just teleport to them and KD. Trust me, it works.

It works once per 10 seconds, is extremely conditional (someone can kite you within 100', ya know...), and KD'ing someone once will not prevent them from running away once they get back up. Plus (I feel like a broken record), without an IAS you'll get two mediocre hits in during their time on the ground.. then they have 7 more seconds to run away.

Rush--in contrast--is spammable, much more relentless and flexible, and also allows you to hit fleeing targets so you're getting criticals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

6.) What's the deal with you guys downing the block-proof skills?? Yea, they are not the most effective ones, but this way I have more KD then if I ran Rigor Mortis.... What do you guys do against another warrior, or monk with guardian, or assassin with flashing blades, or ele with wards, or whatever with whatever block skills? Your ok with none of your attacks ever hitting? Plus, it was a suggestion. You guys are like the freaking build nazi's in here, shit.

You yourself admit they're "not the most effective ones," why on earth would you bother bringing skills into PvP that you know are less effective?

Don't fight warriors and assassins that block. They're overly focused on defense and probably running a bad build. Don't fight in wards. Bull's Strike + Shock owns monks, and Guardian only lasts 5 seconds anyway. Most important than all of that, switching targets > blockers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

AB is unorganized and usually with a lot of newish players. Maybe that's why this build works. Maybe it's because I'm playing against players that aren't actually very good themselves.

Mmhmm. Well, you're certainly welcomed to run anything you want to run and no one here told you otherwise. But when you post a build here the reality is that you're going to receive criticism. If you can't deal with that, don't post it here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Sorry to rant, but I asked you guys to be nice and helpful and instead you come in here like a bunch of 12 year olds eager to stroke your e-peen. Thanks to the few that defended my right to run a build that strays from the status quo.

Do not confuse disagreement and attempting to correct a build with flaming or immaturity. Your own post is by far the most hostile one in this thread.

Flem · Feb 14, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

I don't really know how else to say it; you used it wrong. Bring it alongside Rush and you should never have survivability issues if you use it correctly. There's a reason these tactics are the most popular among PvPers..

Mending is an extremely common skill, does that make it a viable option? That's what "cookie cutter" refers too. Everyone uses it, if it's the best idea or not. I take double damage with frenzy. Unless I want to be running away the entire round, I prefer not to use this skill. I have had nothing but bad times with it. So, my options with IAS are: Self snare, Double damage, or 25% less given damage.... And your defending these options but downing an anti-block skill because of it's flaws? All balanced skills have down sides.

Quote:

Running Sever with an IAS is much, much more added damage..

It may, in the end, add up to be more, but the double damage isn't worth it. With the small, repeating spike of barb slice, gash, and DS, the difference would not be as noticable as you think. Plus, I have twice as much hp afterwards.

Quote:

It works once per 10 seconds, is extremely conditional (someone can kite you within 100', ya know...), and KD'ing someone once will not prevent them from running away once they get back up. Plus (I feel like a broken record), without an IAS you'll get two mediocre hits in during their time on the ground.. then they have 7 more seconds to run away.

By the time they get back up I Iron Palm them again. When they get up from that, I put on SW again. I could also BS them if I brought that skill. After all this, unless they have a monk as a lap dog or have all my hits blocked (hence me wanted to bring an anti block skill), they are dead. Also, SW works if I run away from them too, to get those extra few feet to spring back to them.

Quote:

You yourself admit they're "not the most effective ones," why on earth would you bother bringing skills into PvP that you know are less effective?

Um, because warriors don't have many options in this area. And like I said before, all balanced skills have down sides.

Quote:

Don't fight warriors and assassins that block. They're overly focused on defense and probably running a bad build. Don't fight in wards. Bull's Strike + Shock owns monks, and Guardian only lasts 5 seconds anyway. Most important than all of that, switching targets > blockers.

I try to avoid the blockers, but as I run away I usually get slowed and kited. Seeing how 75%+ of PvPers bring block skills and snares, using "running away" as part of your attack plan is not the most viable option. You should instead figure ways to counter these actions.....which is what I'm trying to do.

Quote:

Mmhmm. Well, you're certainly welcomed to run anything you want to run and no one here told you otherwise. But when you post a build here the reality is that you're going to receive criticism. If you can't deal with that, don't post it here.

Do not confuse disagreement and attempting to correct a build with flaming or immaturity. Your own post is by far the most hostile one in this thread.

Actually.....I asked from CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And some people gave that to me and I thanked them. I specifically asked not to be flamed and that's exactly what happened. I was not "by far the most hostile". I did rant some (which I apologized for), but that's because I got teamed up on, and almost none of it was helpful. It was just complaining.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 14, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Devistating hammer
Crushing blow
mighty blow
heavy blow
grapple
i ment to do that
tigerstance
rez

good times

Scary Raebbit · Feb 15, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Mending is an extremely common skill, does that make it a viable option? That's what "cookie cutter" refers too. Everyone uses it, if it's the best idea or not. I take double damage with frenzy. Unless I want to be running away the entire round, I prefer not to use this skill. I have had nothing but bad times with it. So, my options with IAS are: Self snare, Double damage, or 25% less given damage.... And your defending these options but downing an anti-block skill because of it's flaws? All balanced skills have down sides.

u r doin it rong
I guess that is why Warrior's Cunning or Expose on Warriors in Obs right? Or Warriors with no Frenzy. ibSineptitude lolol
Unblockable skills on a War are a waste of a skill slot (especially when you are giving up your IAS). There are only a few exceptions. S&M Slash and Wild Blow. Except Wild Blow goes on Dervishes and... bad Warriors.
Sorry, game is not balanced. Some skills are just better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

It may, in the end, add up to be more, but the double damage isn't worth it. With the small, repeating spike of barb slice, gash, and DS, the difference would not be as noticable as you think. Plus, I have twice as much hp afterwards.

stop doin it rong
Spike usually means you have an IAS. Enjoy spiking in that big of a time gap with a shitty kd.
Also, if you are Frenzying while taking amounts of pressure that can't be mitigated, you pretty much deserve it for being bad.
Also you are doing a lot less pressure than a real warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

By the time they get back up I Iron Palm them again. When they get up from that, I put on SW again. I could also BS them if I brought that skill. After all this, unless they have a monk as a lap dog or have all my hits blocked (hence me wanted to bring an anti block skill), they are dead. Also, SW works if I run away from them too, to get those extra few feet to spring back to them.

Good teams bring monks. If your build can't do anything to a team with a monk, then why are you even playing warrior. Also, Hex removal is good. Also, switching targets is gud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Um, because warriors don't have many options in this area. And like I said before, all balanced skills have down sides.

Here's the thing. Don't bring bad skills. If you can't do it, maybe you need to be looking at the skill and see if you can offload it to another team member. Or just look at my first suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I try to avoid the blockers, but as I run away I usually get slowed and kited. Seeing how 75%+ of PvPers bring block skills and snares, using "running away" as part of your attack plan is not the most viable option. You should instead figure ways to counter these actions.....which is what I'm trying to do.

Here's something. Monks can't do anything while they are KD'd. Using Bull's Strikes KDs them more reliably than Scorpion Wire if you know how to use it, but it seems like you can't. They can't run into a Ward. They can't Guardian themselves. Also, if you are getting Snared a lot, use Cripple Shield, or better yet, ask the monk to do something about that condition. Or ask monk to pre-veil. Then maybe your Ranger can D-shot. But you probably won't run D-Shot. Or a Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Actually.....I asked from CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And some people gave that to me and I thanked them. I specifically asked not to be flamed and that's exactly what happened. I was not "by far the most hostile". I did rant some (which I apologized for), but that's because I got teamed up on, and almost none of it was helpful. It was just complaining.

Maybe cause bad build is bad and you are so adamant about defending it.

Bobby2 · Feb 15, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

being able to do your job > trying not to die above all else

I'm no l33tness advocate, especially when it comes to AB. I love seeing variety. However, not having a speed boost and IAS is just... baed. As a Warrior, you have access to the most sickening IAS's in the game yet you simply refuse the power

But by all means be a piece of scenery for all I care

Qdq Swi · Feb 15, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

By the time they get back up I Iron Palm them again. When they get up from that, I put on SW again.

O_o Woah.. were do you get the energy to be able to spam Iron Palm & Scorpion Wire Constantly?! Plus.. recharge time = sucky. Whats wrong with Shock again..?

Btw.. Lol @ recharge of Wars Cunning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

But by all means be a piece of scenery for all I care

][_; ][_][ ][_; <(---<(( Symbols = much ftw btw

Flem · Feb 15, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary Raebbit

u r doin it rong
I guess that is why Warrior's Cunning or Expose on Warriors in Obs right? Or Warriors with no Frenzy. ibSineptitude lolol
Unblockable skills on a War are a waste of a skill slot (especially when you are giving up your IAS). There are only a few exceptions. S&M Slash and Wild Blow. Except Wild Blow goes on Dervishes and... bad Warriors.
Sorry, game is not balanced. Some skills are just better.

stop doin it rong
Spike usually means you have an IAS. Enjoy spiking in that big of a time gap with a shitty kd.
Also, if you are Frenzying while taking amounts of pressure that can't be mitigated, you pretty much deserve it for being bad.
Also you are doing a lot less pressure than a real warrior.

Good teams bring monks. If your build can't do anything to a team with a monk, then why are you even playing warrior. Also, Hex removal is good. Also, switching targets is gud.

Here's the thing. Don't bring bad skills. If you can't do it, maybe you need to be looking at the skill and see if you can offload it to another team member. Or just look at my first suggestion.

Here's something. Monks can't do anything while they are KD'd. Using Bull's Strikes KDs them more reliably than Scorpion Wire if you know how to use it, but it seems like you can't. They can't run into a Ward. They can't Guardian themselves. Also, if you are getting Snared a lot, use Cripple Shield, or better yet, ask the monk to do something about that condition. Or ask monk to pre-veil. Then maybe your Ranger can D-shot. But you probably won't run D-Shot. Or a Ranger.

Maybe cause bad build is bad and you are so adamant about defending it.

Just so I understand you, your asking me to be a careless burden on a healer that has an entire team to heal? To disregard all aspects of the game on focus on one and essentially be a "meat head"? And you call me bad? I guess this is why warriors get such a bad rep.

Plus, this is AB we're talking about dude? Did you not read that part? The large majority of the time there is not a monk in my PuG group. And if their is, not everyone dies at the same time, so when someone gets res'd, they are apart from the rest of the team and will likely have to 1v1 at least 5+ times in a round. Your play style might make it impossible for you to be able to effectively kill without an IAS, but mine doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

O_o Woah.. were do you get the energy to be able to spam Iron Palm & Scorpion Wire Constantly?! Plus.. recharge time = sucky. Whats wrong with Shock again..?

LOL. They are 5 energy each dude. The whole build is practically adr. use. I have more then enough for those.

Shock:

1.)Causes exhaustion, not huge, but def. a downside.
2.)Ele only supplies that one KD. With Assassin, I get two and an ability to instantly catch a fleeing enemy + KD.
3.)OVERDONE. The whole point of me posting on here was to try and help other people out that wanted to try new things, HAVE FUN WITH THE GAME, and encourage creativity.

Either way, I didn't realize how much of elitest snobs you guys were. Not even sure why I posted on here now. If you guys haven't seen someone else do the same build 400 times then you won't even consider it, even though I clearly stated that I have tried it (about 3 full days now) and it WORKS. What more do you want? I would say try if for yourselves, but even my little run through at the top it's prolly not exact enough for you to understand the logistics of it. Oh well, enjoy your conformity.

LOL, you guys are ridiculous.

Keekles · Feb 15, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Stance Canceling is win? I've always run [skill]frenzy[/skill] on my war when I use axe or sword... and I've never had issues with the "take double damage" clause. Oh right, [skill]rush[/skill].

AB != Good test if a build works or not. There's enough idiots that you could run the most moronic build and still end up winning. Just because a build works in AB does not make it good.

Problems with your build: You lack an IAS or a movement speed boost as well, if you kill any monk with that bar, in my opinion, that monk fails. Anti-blocking skills? Guardian? Go hit something else. Draw out the monk's prots, then swap back to them. That's far more efficient than bringing ED or WC. (How in the world would you kill a [good] cripshot ranger?)

Also: [skill]holy veil[/skill] > [skill]scorpion wire[/skill]. Kiting > You, since you have no movement speed buff. If you do knock my ass to the ground, the amount of damage you will do will be easily remedied after I get up. (If I'm a monk).

This is my opinion: Your bar is bad. Why? See above.

I can somewhat understand if there is no monk in your PUG, since when I run a war in AB, it's with an alliance group. But your bar is still sub-par. You cannot kill me if I monk, and you definitely cannot kill a (good) cripshot.

I can get kills just fine without an IAS... the point is, an IAS speeds things up. You'll get in more hits, which may cause a monk to have to throw up a bigger heal/prot... that costs energy. I can say right now, that when I've monked in AB, if the warrior attacking me has no IAS... I sort of ignore them. No IAS = no spike. Constant pre-veil = your scorpion wire does nothing.