Curse

Ensign · Feb 03, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Blessed Light is bad. I question the credibility of people who endorse bad skills.

You would have a very difficult time putting together a Monk bar these days where Blessed Light would not be the worst skill on your bar. How do you justify taking that as your choice of an elite when there are at least half a dozen better elites available?

JDRyder · Feb 03, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

blah blah blah sry didnt want a long quote :P

Good post will read again

i try to help bad pve players become better but ego gets in the way most the time. faster people can get players to stop using farming builds in gruops the better. A lot of players phail to see the point of a group, most people think "let see here i have 8 skills, hmmm , ill take this to block.... hmm but this also blocks, hmm ill just take all 3, o look this skill also blocks ill take that as well

, guess ill take healing breeze for a heal cuz thats the most leet heal ever. ill also take dolyak signet and endure pain cuz i can get up to 540 HP with that... i need dps hmm, o i know, power attack ill just spam that, that will get me DPS" and then after they added 4 blocking skills , healing breeze, power attack and using all their energy after 2 skills, they forget they are 100% useless to the group cause theyare not doing any DPS and doing any thing but blocking caster damage

but in the long run its pve who cares :P most poeple make people ping bars before starting the mission or w/e and im seeing less and less nubs.

Melody Cross · Feb 03, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign

How do you justify taking that as your choice of an elite when there are at least half a dozen better elites available?

I already have. I justify it only through my experience. In many—truly—good teams, the power of WoH is not worth the slot. There are not enough times where high damage slips through to create a need for more healing than Gift of Health can crank out.

Blessed Light is good at team cleaning. I’ve already explained why it is good in “great” groups, just as I’ve already conceded that most of the time, I run a WoH hybrid.

Just like I won’t need a spammable party heal if the frontline does its job at agroing the mob, Monks don’t need to bring their biggest badest elites if everyone has some focus on team defense and use it properly toward the situation.

If the team is geared to support itself and negate/disrupt the damage dealing ability of the AI, then what use is an elite like WoH to that group? If almost every melee attack is missing because one of the eles rolled a Bsurge instead of Mind Blast spam build, what use is aegis? Where do I put Shield of Deflection when the rangers are already shut down by Winds and Shields Up?

And what good is Reversal of Fortune—the most used and some would say overused skill in the game—when the paragon is protting every player in the group to a minimum of 168 AL against all damage types and reducing all damage (even the armor ignoring stuff) by 31%? What good does the most powerful heal in the game do when you’re already facing miss/block, 1s and 0s?

Great PvE teams are like great GvG teams in that regard. They all build for the situation; they all build toward the entire 8-man and not just themselves. In teams like that—good or great—a monk’s job shifts. Its no longer primarily about saving the midliner that went in too deep or didn’t move in time, throwing a prot wall up to protect a player from powerful damage.

In teams like that, where the entire 8-man is geared to shutdown as well as kill, the monk’s job becomes more about making certain the team can still function properly and less about how much healing and protection it can crank out.

And in PvE teams like that, dual Blight still kicks plenty butt. Divert is situational, where BLight becomes the old Swiss Army Knife, cleaning negative conditions off quickly so that the team continues to steamroll through one mob after another. Its ready to use in any situation and ready to use (due to recycle) in nearly all of them.

Having said that: you still bring the big prots. You still have the Prot Spirit, the SBond. Monks are great at building toward and warding against those “what if” situations. But if a team is rolling smoothly, those situations will be few and far between.

That’s as good as I can explain it.

JDRyder; thanks for reading all of it.

GGs

Ensign · Feb 03, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

And in PvE teams like that, dual Blight still kicks plenty butt.

It's an order of magnitude worse than dual Divert Hexes - which happens to be a very strong elite in a PvE group with tons of redundant defense.

I agree that you don't have to lean on your elites nearly as hard when playing on a good team. That does not change that Blessed Light is largely outclassed by non-elite skills that are likely going to be on your bar anyway; it also does not follow that simply because you do not strictly need a good elite to survive, that you should instead run a much weaker elite that doesn't add any new abilities to your character.

Melody Cross · Feb 03, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's an order of magnitude worse than dual Divert Hexes - which happens to be a very strong elite in a PvE group with tons of redundant defense.

I agree that you don't have to lean on your elites nearly as hard when playing on a good team. That does not change that Blessed Light is largely outclassed by non-elite skills that are likely going to be on your bar anyway; it also does not follow that simply because you do not strictly need a good elite to survive, that you should instead run a much weaker elite that doesn't add any new abilities to your character.

I've tried Divert in PvE and just don't feel as comfortable with it as with the BLight Deny combo. We may be dealing with personal preference here. I find the BLight/deny combo more flexible when dealing with mass hex spreads and condition issues, Divert doing great for hex stacks but seeming to slow down once the hexer is dead and its only conditions.

I know I should just use my Mend C to remove only condis, but I've got what amounts to two hex removals or 2 condition removals on my bar in team clearing situations with BLight. And since I'm not throwing out heals like somethings going to die if I don't in high tier teams, I have more than enough energy to burn on this 10e spell.

I might be persuaded to consider Divert over BLight as my cleaner of choice again but...

I might need some convincing first

GGs

Seef II · Feb 04, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

As in the BLight thread, the hex + condi removals of BLight often aren't relevant in PvE. You'd then be spending 10 energy to pull something stupid like Parabond off a Dervish or Soothing Images on a Ranger. The game doesn't tell you whether somebody's hexed by Backfire (normally a must-remove on PvE casters) or Ignorance on the party window, or whether your buddy's Dazed or merely has Cracked Armor.

When hexes do matter in PvE, e.g., against HM Awakened mobs or in Sepulchre of Dragrimmar, Divert Hexes blows BLight out of the water, simply because you can clean up a stack and get a big heal. You're normally under big hex spam, as in the above cases, or condition spam like against EotN Mandragors or in Sunjiang District. RC and Divert Hexes will outdo BLight in those cases - always - simply because you can nearly always guarantee your cast is worthwhile.

Basically, Blessed Light is adequate to keep people alive in PvE, if you're too lazy to optimize builds for areas. It's like running one weapon set that isn't the best choice in any case, but isn't a bad choice either. You'd be sacrificing some efficiency for flexibility, which is alright in casual PvE.

Magikarp · Feb 04, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

i'm not siding with the ensign/coloneh opinion because ensign's "cred", but i have to agree that blight is really the undertaker when a HM group facing a hex heavy area will do WAY better with Divert...

maybe just my opinion, and while i dont play monk that much anymore in pve, as a HM pve warrior, i'd hope my team cleanup skills on my monk bars weren't 10e elites... i rather just have the same old 5 e or sig skills that do the same thing..

Coloneh · Feb 04, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Blight adds nothing to your skillbar. in the team Melody described, the monk isnt casting like crazy, so you dont need dual hex or condition removers. Blight combines 3 skills into 1, a powerheal, a condition removal, and a hex removal. this sounds good, right? the problem is that its 10 energy. its worth 10 energy for your elite if it removes a condition, a hex and heals. but it isnt going to do this. very rarely will a target ever have a condition worth removing, a hex worth removing, and need a heal at the same time. if this situation dosnt arise, whats the point in bring Blight? if you arent 'multi-tasking' with it your spending 10 energy to get the same effect as a 5 energy skill thats already on your bar, or just ignoring your elite slot. not so useful...

Ensign · Feb 04, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

BLight is only worth the energy if you are removing hexes with it; if you're just healing and hitting conditions, pick your favorite Mend, which you certainly have on your bar even with BLight.

BLight is a 10 energy hex removal that happens to knock off a condition and heal. But so is Divert - except Divert knocks off a second and 3rd Hex too. More importantly, if you're playing with people smart enough to call hexes, Divert will hit the important hexes - an ability it is uniquely good at.

Melody Cross · Feb 10, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Based on the popular appeal of divert, I tried it as my hex removal in several HM vanquishes and dungeon crawls. 8-man, I presented a fragile target that required regular maintenance from my duo. But it worked (I figured it would) and worked exceptionally well in niche areas with heavy cover hex issues.

squishing...we HAD to 8-man. I no longer had the survivability of a WoH or my trusty BLight. We couldn't split off and tackle multiple groups effectivly.

6 and 4 man, I'm still rolling my tursty WoH build for the most part and its still going strong (even with patient Spirit, which everyone here seems to hate as well). But for the tactical setup of the teams I tend to run, Divert doesn't seem to cut it.

After slightly over a week of in-game PvE testing with multiple groups (scrub, good and excelent) I have to say that the "only heal on hex" aspect of Divert puts it out of range except when faced with extreme hex spam situations. Everyday vanquishing or non-themed dungeons...Divert frankly falls on its face for me. It just can't keep up if you get hit, and you can get hit with HM AI.

This is, to be completely clear, the expierience of myself and my guildies after using the elite. Results appear to vary. Considering the edorsment by others in this thread...they appear to vary considerably.

GGs

Snow Bunny · Feb 11, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

i dont care about 10 energy skills, i use PS and SB all the time but they are worth the 10 energy, there are few monk elite skills that are worth the energy. only skill i can really think off the top of my head thats a monk elite thats 10 energy thats worth it is [skill]divert hexes[/skill] cause it heals and removes up to 3 hexs and conditon, but now that heavy hex is out of the gvg meta "some people still use it but its not meta any more" RC is better

as for [skill]shield of deflection[/skill] some of my old gvg friends liked to call the the "stop dying skill" but i never liked it over RC. RC heals and removes all conditons, i find that more useful. guardian works better imo cause its 5 energy with a fast recharge, if some 1 is getting spiked PS and SB works better than SoD. seems like a wast of a elite to me

[skill]zealous benediction[/skill] i have NEVER liked this skill only used it in RA few times before trying other builds cause if you get the 7 energy back its cast time is to slow cause most the time if they are lower then 50% hp they ware getting spiked by a sin or something and SB works a lot better i used this skill some before the Woh buff but id use divert hexes over it any day

ZB is 170 heal for 3 energy.

You couldn't get those results otherwise without blowing Izzy.

SoD is a "Stop Dying" skill for sure. It's pretty hard to kill something as long as it's SoD'd.

And to be honest, I still believe that RoF is eternally the best skill in the game. It's really a skill that has meant the difference in so many occasions I can't even begin to list them.

Avarre · Feb 11, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

It just can't keep up if you get hit, and you can get hit with HM AI.

If you're getting hit and not mitigating the damage through kiting/prot, Blessed Light will be like spitting at a thunderstorm in terms of its effectiveness. If you are mitigating it properly, you won't need your elite to bail you out in that situation.

Anyways, people don't use as many 10e skills because it's rare to find a skill that costs 10e but is worth the cost when compared to efficient 5e skills like RoF, Guardian, SoA, Gift, Kiss, etc - most of which are powerful due to conditional factors that can be controlled by using the skills when they're most effective.

Age · Feb 11, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Blesed Light and Divert are nice but I prefer just to keep healing the hex unless it is strong one.I will then use remove hex since I like using it over viel.When you are in an area with lots of hex degen Blight and Divert will reapplied to every party member.

I know viel is better but I like remove.

JDRyder · Feb 12, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

ZB is 170 heal for 3 energy.

You couldn't get those results otherwise without blowing Izzy.

SoD is a "Stop Dying" skill for sure. It's pretty hard to kill something as long as it's SoD'd.

And to be honest, I still believe that RoF is eternally the best skill in the game. It's really a skill that has meant the difference in so many occasions I can't even begin to list them.

no zB heals for 170 for 10 energy and if they are lower then haft HP u get 7 back

Woh > ZB

5energy all the time and will heal for 200+

Snow Bunny · Feb 12, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Blessed Light is bad. I question the credibility of people who endorse bad skills.

See Tommy's Blight bar recently?

Dr Strangelove · Feb 12, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

See Tommy's Blight bar recently?

Tommy could run shock arrow and still be better than everyone else. He doesn't count.

Racthoh · Feb 13, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

See Tommy's Blight bar recently?

I'd assume they're just testing the new party heals.

Ensign · Feb 13, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Bar compression is good when you want to run two party heals and not dilute your attributes.

Snow Bunny · Feb 13, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Bar compression is good when you want to run two party heals and not dilute your attributes.

I understand how the build works.

I was just poking at the apparent anomaly in your remark

Splitisoda · Feb 14, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Normally, I see 10 energy skills get spammed the most. You can really see anything, i've seen monks try to cast Spirit bond on the entire team, etc.

Probably though, im sure most people think "its 10 energy, it HAS to be worth its cost"