Curse

Dr Strangelove · Feb 19, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

So, under this logic....how are new builds ever created? Please indulge.

Also, cookie cutter builds are easiest to counter. Everyone already knows what your going to run, just like 95% of every other meat head warrior.

Either existing builds are tweaked, or new builds are created that do something the original build could not. Your builds fail at the most basic part of being a warrior, killing stuff, so they don't fit the second category.

A good example of the second would be the new dervish eurospike I saw dR beat rawr with yesterday.

I really don't need to see your bar to know what a warrior is going to try to do to me. It's going to try to get into melee range with me and apply pressure with sporadic disruption. The warrior that fall outside of this range, like my primal rage wander, are sufficiently useless that you can ignore them.

Alex - Make sure to cover your healing signet with deadly riposte, and use soul leech to counter his healing breeze.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 19, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I, personally, hate taking double dmg. It doesn't matter if I have infinite adr. if I'm dead.

If you're good, Frenzy doesn't kill you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Alex - Make sure to cover your healing signet with deadly riposte, and use soul leech to counter his healing breeze.

Cover sig with Deadly?

D'oh! That's where I was going wrong.

Flem · Feb 19, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

The entire conversation is about Power Attack, Soldier's Strike, etc. sucking, you being wrong, and then you attacking me for being right.

And all a 1v1 would prove is that you're silly enough to actually think it means something.

lol, your so cute. You still claim that your opinion = fact. Sorry. Not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Rush and Healing Signet say hello.

Or you could take Flail if we're talking about PvE.

So, your solution to taking to much damage from Frenzy is using Heal Sig, which is -40 armor what is also about double damage? As a def. your build requires you to take 4 times more damage then normal? That sounds like a good way to get 2-shotted.

Flem · Feb 19, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Either existing builds are tweaked, or new builds are created that do something the original build could not. Your builds fail at the most basic part of being a warrior, killing stuff, so they don't fit the second category.

A good example of the second would be the new dervish eurospike I saw dR beat rawr with yesterday.

I really don't need to see your bar to know what a warrior is going to try to do to me. It's going to try to get into melee range with me and apply pressure with sporadic disruption. The warrior that fall outside of this range, like my primal rage wander, are sufficiently useless that you can ignore them.

Alex - Make sure to cover your healing signet with deadly riposte, and use soul leech to counter his healing breeze.

Existing builds are tweaked. Good. Some progress is made.

And if you think that changing your build doesn't completely change the dynamics of a battle, then once again, GW isn't the game for you either. If I knew the exact builds of every member of the opp. team, I'd always win. Knowing is more then half the battle, Joe.

ShadowsRequiem · Feb 19, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

lol, your so cute. You still claim that your opinion = fact. Sorry. Not the case.

So, your solution to taking to much damage from Frenzy is using Heal Sig, which is -40 armor what is also about double damage? As a def. your build requires you to take 4 times more damage then normal? That sounds like a good way to get 2-shotted.

God damn you are stupid. You use frenzy > THEN CANCEL STANCE > then go into healing sig. Seriously alex is right.

Flem · Feb 19, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

God damn you are stupid. You use frenzy > THEN CANCEL STANCE > then go into healing sig. Seriously alex is right.

Your right. I didn't think of that. Sorry. Man, I haven't even been talking to you and you already have your panties in a wad. It's like I'm arguing with 4 of the same person.

Either way, Heal Sig just gives an extended amount of dbl dmg. Man I really hope you aren't snared. Or get degen'd. Or blocked. Or anything else other then a perfect, stationary dummy to hit.

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 19, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

While I believe that what works in high-end pvp doesn't always work in low-end pvp, this build does need fixing.

First thing I notice is your lack of any snare - any player could easily kite you, and you'll be able to do nothing about it.

Berserker Stance is inferior to Enraging charge - the adren gain is instant, and it could be pre-cast so the 20sec recharge isn't often a problem. Also while Berserker is active, you're likely to hardly get any hits out of it when you can't catch a runner.

You're not making good use of Death's Charge - shadow steps are for getting in your enemy's face unexpectedly and letting out a fast spike before they can react. Without an IAS, you can only get off 1-3 hits before they notice you and start running.

Quivering Blade isn't exacly a good elite. You could replace it with Crippling slash as a way to snare targets, since it's something the build lacks. You'll also have a free skillslot.

Because you're not making good use of Death's charge, there's little reason to be W/A. Those selfheals arn't exacly good. You're better off spec'ing into Tactics for Heal sig. You'll have freed your 2ndary prof so you'll then have access to condition/hex removal. Even with those Sin heals, you're still a very easy vulnerable target.

IAS skills are powerful, they increase your damage and help you gain adren faster. Unfortunely, for random PvP types such as these, a non-hammer user's best choice is Frenzy. If that's on your bar, you'll need to add a cancel stance. Even then, most people just can't get the hang of knowing when to use and cancel it. Your other options arn't that great. Tiger stance is short lasting, Burst of aggression has a bad drawback, Flurry is bad on a war, and the self-snare from Flail is bad for a non-hammer user. If you did use Cripslash though, you could probably get away with Flail.

Yichi · Feb 19, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Your right. I didn't think of that. Sorry. Man, I haven't even been talking to you and you already have your panties in a wad. It's like I'm arguing with 4 of the same person.

No it's because there are 4 different, probably more experienced players at this profession than you, and you are trying to defend yourself instead of admitting to the original problem, which in this threads case was that your build is lackluster at best, you have the wrong tactics about how to play a warrior, and will not take anyone telling you otherwise.

Taurus · Feb 19, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

O.K. people in this forum are WAAAY too bitter and/or elitist. When you see posts by people who are new/dumb/PvE'rs, you have these options : Help or Ignore.
Anything else you do will burst into flames. I will start helping by tell the mods to close this.
Plz ?

KazeMitsui · Feb 20, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

so like back on topic of the op build
ill just say that 3 crap heals are just a waste... of bar and other stuff...
should probably like have plauge touch... or something and bull strike and srsly have frenzy and rush and maybe a RES SIG if this is for freakin pvp... HA is a joke gvg is better not gonna lie...

also flem or whatever his name is, is a bad warrior from having to read his posts on being bad

blue.rellik · Feb 20, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Your right. I didn't think of that. Sorry. Man, I haven't even been talking to you and you already have your panties in a wad. It's like I'm arguing with 4 of the same person.

Either way, Heal Sig just gives an extended amount of dbl dmg. Man I really hope you aren't snared. Or get degen'd. Or blocked. Or anything else other then a perfect, stationary dummy to hit.

A warrior with a shield that's heal sigging still takes less damage than a squishie

Keekles · Feb 20, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

A warrior with a shield that's heal sigging still takes less damage than a squishie

QFT.

123456789

Stance canceling, Frenzy's best friend. Seriously, most of the times I've died while frenzied in pvp was when a mesmer uses [skill]blackout[/skill] on me

always ready to rush cancel frenzy. Or tele-spikes. Stupid shadow-stepping.

bosstweed · Feb 20, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Either way, Heal Sig just gives an extended amount of dbl dmg. Man I really hope you aren't snared. Or get degen'd. Or blocked. Or anything else other then a perfect, stationary dummy to hit.

What would getting "degen'd" have to do with ANYTHING?

blue.rellik · Feb 20, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bosstweed

What would getting "degen'd" have to do with ANYTHING?

Obviously he's talking about when that opposing warrior casting [skill]Life Transfer[/skill] on you in RA. When another warrior casts LT on you then you know that something has hit the fan and you are going down, hard

Stormlord Alex · Feb 20, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Obviously he's talking about when that opposing warrior casting [skill]Life Transfer[/skill] on you in RA. When another warrior casts LT on you then you know that something has hit the fan and you are going down, hard

Aye, I had that happen to me once... I still wake up screaming, drenched in cold sweat... the nightmares still haunt me to this very day.

Flem · Feb 20, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

No it's because there are 4 different, probably more experienced players at this profession than you, and you are trying to defend yourself instead of admitting to the original problem, which in this threads case was that your build is lackluster at best, you have the wrong tactics about how to play a warrior, and will not take anyone telling you otherwise.

Wtf? This thread isn't about my build. I didn't start this....? Just feeling like jumping on the band wagon like everyone else? That's cool, kinda expecting all the follower types to be on this forum more and more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

A warrior with a shield that's heal sigging still takes less damage than a squishie

Of course. A warrior should never be taking more dmg then a caster in PvP. Ever. What does that have to do with anything?

Earth · Feb 20, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Either way, Heal Sig just gives an extended amount of dbl dmg.

Healing Signet usually outheals the damage you take, unless you're taking alot of damage, in which case, well, you're probably dead anyway if you don't have a monk with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Or blocked.

Uhm, how does being blocked influence using Healing Signet?

Flem · Feb 20, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Healing Signet usually outheals the damage you take, unless you're taking alot of damage, in which case, well, you're probably dead anyway if you don't have a monk with you.

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as downing Heal Sig. It's a pretty reliable heal that has a great place in a lot of builds. I was just saying that, as with most skills, it's not perfect. Neither is frenzy, contrary to popular belief.

There are lots of builds that can do as well and better in some situations without the use of either of these. It's according to play style, mainly. I would prefer to not take double damage with two skills I have on the same bar.

I'm just really sick of everyone trying to say, if others don't use the exact build they do, then it's a bad/sucky/non-working build. This game is way to situational for that line of thought.

Quote:

Uhm, how does being blocked influence using Healing Signet?

It doesn't have anything to do with the skill Heal Sig. I was more stating on the way everyone thinks this particular build with: Frenzy, Rush, Heal Sig combo is the untouchable skill set. There are never any skills that prevent blocking in those builds, yet they almost completely rely on adr. use, they have two skills that cause dbl dmg, and usually no def. skill.

That's all fine and good for a spike to not have a def. skill, I guess, but if your depending on all your hits to count in order to do the spike and not die, but have no way to guarantee that your hits actually hit....then why is this the perfect build? That's just one of many examples of lots of people using the same build (which is fine) and then claiming that no other build is adequate or can meet the same lvl of efficiency (not true).

There are no perfect builds for PvP or PvE (even though some builds, such as the 55, seem to have dominance against AI). They all have counters and all have certain situations they work best in. The forums are supposed to help people out, mainly newer players. The forums are supposed to be a place where people share new ideas and new ways of thinking and new, boundry-pushing builds. Why is then that everyone is trying to assimilate everyone else into the over-played and under-thought?

That's all I'm trying to say.

iridescentfyre · Feb 20, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

It doesn't have anything to do with the skill Heal Sig. I was more stating on the way everyone thinks this particular build with: Frenzy, Rush, Heal Sig combo is the untouchable skill set. There are never any skills that prevent blocking in those builds, yet they almost completely rely on adr. use, they have two skills that cause dbl dmg, and usually no def. skill.

Flem, do you really think that nearly every good GvG team is using the same builds over and over simply because they're trendy, ignorant, and unwilling to try your "fresh" perspective on Guild Wars builds? Is it that you think you're just smarter or understand the game better than everyone else? They're using those builds because the fact is that in GW, there is always a "best" option for anything. If you don't have good players running the best builds, you won't be a top team for long.

And by the way, if you took notice you'd see that what you term the "Flavor of the Month" correlates directly to Anet's skill updates. I wonder why...

Hit B and observe high-level GvG and HA play. You will see warriors using Frenzy almost without exception. Do they explode the moment someone breathes on them? No, they have the sense to cancel it properly. Are they using defensive skills? No, because those skills are wholly bad and subtract from a bar's usefulness. Are they getting blocked? Yes, but they switch targets, continue to interrupt and shut down, and are still able to make the enemy monks' lives difficult.

Flem · Feb 20, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Flem, do you really think that nearly every good GvG team is using the same builds over and over simply because they're trendy, ignorant, and unwilling to try your "fresh" perspective on Guild Wars builds? Is it that you think you're just smarter or understand the game better than everyone else? They're using those builds because the fact is that in GW, there is always a "best" option for anything. If you don't have good players running the best builds, you won't be a top team for long.

And by the way, if you took notice you'd see that what you term the "Flavor of the Month" correlates directly to Anet's skill updates. I wonder why...

Hit B and observe high-level GvG and HA play. You will see warriors using Frenzy almost without exception. Do they explode the moment someone breathes on them? No, they have the sense to cancel it properly. Are they using defensive skills? No, because those skills are wholly bad and subtract from a bar's usefulness. Are they getting blocked? Yes, but they switch targets, continue to interrupt and shut down, and are still able to make the enemy monks' lives difficult.

1.) You act like every guild plays the same build. There are so so so many different builds that the great guilds run and win with. And this is NOT always best option. Rarely, yes. But the large majority of any single skill you name has a very specific counter. Some have more counters and downsides then others, but in the right build can excel. Fear of breaking the norm. is the down fall of all intelligent people.

2.) Good guilds know that cookie warriors can be shutdown by having them run around looking for a target that can't block, the entire match. Even for the few classes that rarely don't have a def. skill, the monks make sure to focus on them with protection.

3.) I never said I was smarter or understood the game better then everyone else. The irony is, that's exactly what EVERYONE else is doing. I love how you just tried to turn that around on me. Very cute. The whole point of what I am saying is: Quite pretending that the build you use is the God Mode of Guild Wars. It's not.