Curse

pygar · Feb 15, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Heya, I learned how to post skills properly today while posting my actual build on another thread...So Basically I decided to do it again along with my PvE Hero and Henchie team. This is not the "Leetest Build Ever" It's my PvE build for Normal mode. It's a fun build that is simple to run but tough enough to eat up almost anything in normal mode.

Pygar the Terrible- R/Mo Pet: Spot (Dire Black Wolf) 411hp 25e
[skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Poison Tip Signet[/skill][skill]MageBane Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Disrupting Lunge[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill]
Marks:12 Expert:14 Beast Master:12 Widerness:3 Protection:2
Stygian Recurve Bow,Vampiric Undead Short Bow of fortitude 15%-5e,Zealous Storm Bow of Fortitude +5e, Beast Master insignia on all armor (80AL while Spot is alive) Runes: +3 Marks,+3 Expert,+1 Beast,+41HP,+10HP

Koss- W/R Pet: Dire Black Wolf 405hp 20e
[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill][skill]Distracting Blow[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Signet of Strength[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill]
Strength:12 Swordsman:15 Tactics:11 Beast Master:3
Fiery Gladius of Fortitude((+29) 15%dmg^50%hp Skeleton Shield (tactics) -5dmg(20%) Knights Insignia on all armor, Runes:+2 Swordsman, +3 Strength, +2 Tactics, +41HP, and -3 dmg rune of absorption

Hayda- P/R Pet: Dire Black Wolf 406hp 30e
[skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill][skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Anthem of Weariness[/skill][skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill][skill]"Make Your Time!"[/skill][skill]Ressurection Signet[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill]
Spear Master:14 Command:12 Leadership:12 Beast Master:2
Fiery Guardian Spear of Shelter 15%dmg^50%hp Skull Shield of Fortitude(+20hp) -5dmg(19%) Centurion Insignia on all armor, Runes: +3 leadership, +2 Command, +2 Spear Master, +41hp, +10hp

Tahlkora- Mo/R Pet: Elder Black Wolf 416hp 44e
[skill]Shielding Hands[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Cure Hex[/skill][skill]Revive Animal[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill]
Healing:11 Protection:12 Divine Favor:10 Best Master:10
Holy Rod of Quickening Half skill recharge 10%, Half spell cast time 10% and Divine Symbol -2dmg while enchanted, +45hp while enchanted Blessed insignia on all armor, Runes:+2 Divine Favor,+2 Healing, +2 Protection, +41hp, +2e

Henchies: Mehnlo, Kihm (or Lina in EOTN),Herta, and Devona- in easier areas of the game it can be run with no Henchies or, with only Mehnlo for backup healing.

The team build is about using Pets to make it so mobs rarely make me feel outnumbered, and many times my team outnumbers the enemy mobs it faces. To back up the wolves is my miniature version of "Blockway" with Aegis, Defensive Anthem and Herta's Wards (Plus lots of healing). Lastly, I target out casters in groups first and between my interrupts, and Koss and Devona providing some frontline interrupts and knockdown enemies have a hard time getting spells off to help themselves stay alive.

The only one of the Heroes skills that needs to be managed is Revive Animal on Tahlkora, if you don't disable it she might try to use it in the middle of a battle and the cast time is too long, besides not really being worth it.... The monks just do a better job of keeping the core team healed and protected when the wolves actually get dropped by something, and I can always bring back spot with comfort animal.Tahlkora also doesn't use the revive ability efficiently after battles, so it's always best to manually control that skill for her instead.

I just beat the Gates of Madness in normal mode with this build and got master bonus, it can handle just about anything (but I do need to tweak it slightly to beat Abbadon with it, just to deal with the mass daze and all the hexes...lots of the "blockway" stuff is kinda wasted in that battle, almost nothing actually "hits" you) But the build does well everywhere else I've been so far for sure.

pygar · Feb 16, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

UPDATE: Exchanged [skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill] for [skill]Cautery Signet[/skill] and managed to beat Abbadon in quick enough time to get masters. (10 minutes 46 seconds)

Freakin sweet

Marverick · Feb 16, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Why do all your heroes have like 400hp...? get them to at least 550hp+, especially the Monk one

Also that Warrior build is terrible... try something like
[skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Galrath Slash[/skill][skill]Silverwing Slash[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Revive Animal[/skill]

and take Revive Animal off the Monk... your Monk has much better things to do

The Ranger and Paragon are fine except for "Make Your Time!" being a very crappy skill, especially with one adrenaline skill. Put in [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill]

Also [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] > [skill]Mend Condition[/skill]
and [skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] > [skill]Shielding Hands[/skill]

Killed u man · Feb 16, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

The team build is about using Pets to make it so mobs rarely make me feel outnumbered,

As long as you feel that way, it's cool, right? (Because pets do sooo much, especially when you have monk who won't invest more than 8 points in BM)

ReZDoGG · Feb 16, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

why not use MM if u feel outnumbered. Jagged Nova build works great... blows shit up. Plus they are abunch of meat shields...

pygar · Feb 16, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I was using a Minion Master for a while, earlier version of pretty much the same group got me through Varesh and lots of the realm of torment....but got tired of the build sputtering in places where there aren't enough corpses.

Div · Feb 16, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I don't even know where to start, but I'll just say this is an example of what NOT to bring.

Pets are already bad in general, bow rangers with pets are even worse.

Hundred blades is already bad compared to triple chop, hundred blades warriors with pets are even worse.

Monks with 400 health is already bad, monks with 10 beast mastery are even worse.

I think everyone gets the pattern here. This is one of the few builds where your henchmen will outperform you and your heroes. Pretty sad, I know.

pygar · Feb 16, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I don't even know where to start, but I'll just say this is an example of what NOT to bring.

Bring to what? PVE? (I did post this in the PvE section of the forum right?)

I didn't say the build was the bestest best build ever, but guess what it's doin pretty good gettin me through the toughest parts of nightfall playin H&H.

People are welcome to their opinion but lets keep it civil and informative. I am not panning for suggestions here, but if I see good ones I haven't already read about in these forums or the wiki, I'll consider them.

I Might Avenge U · Feb 16, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Pets really only succeed in BM only builds or Packhunter-like builds. there isn't much else they work with...

blue.rellik · Feb 16, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

Bring to what? PVE? (I did post this in the PvE section of the forum right?)

I didn't say the build was the bestest best build ever, but guess what it's doin pretty good gettin me through the toughest parts of nightfall playin H&H.

People are welcome to their opinion but lets keep it civil and informative. I am not panning for suggestions here, but if I see good ones I haven't already read about in these forums or the wiki, I'll consider them.

If this build can somehow take down Mallyx then I will worship you like a god.

No joke

pygar · Feb 16, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

If this build can somehow take down Mallyx then I will worship you like a god.

No joke

Yeah, I know....that's next. (Wiki says 1-2 hours of mission time, so might not get to it right away...lol)

Not everybody has been playin the game for 2 years bro. I have been playing for just over two months myself, and there are plenty of other people out there who are new and just trying to figure out how to beat the game for the first time.

I read a lot of these forums and read a lot of the wiki.... I know this isn't what everybody else is running- and that is a beautiful thing in its own way. Like I said before I am not under any false illusions about how good the build is, it's good enough-and if it breaks down, I'll change it. (And yes, I just now unlocked Hard Mode, and tried a couple times and yeah the build needs fixing in the harder areas, oh well-I'l figure out how to deal with that too.)

Theosephus · Feb 16, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

Not everybody has been playin the game for 2 years bro. I have been playing for just over two months myself, and there are plenty of other people out there who are new and just trying to figure out how to beat the game for the first time.

Quoted For Truth.

I'm a 2 monther myself and took a long time before submitting a build to the forum. I know to have at least SOME idea of what you're talking about before you start submitting builds, and Pygar's ranger build seems like it can hold it's own in the Proph campaign areas.. but as for uber leet monster farming or whatever it is you vets do.. I couldn't say.

I'm not alone in wanting less outright slamming of builds and more of a description of why it won't work and what can be done to improve it. It's one thing to say something is bad.. but it's much better to say WHY it's bad.

Amy Awien · Feb 16, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

The idea is not bad, a whole bunch of pets in your group at least removes some of the downside since you no longer requiring at least two skills just to bring one companion, now only one character can be responsible for reviving all of them.
Using 1 skill slot for a 480 HP, 80 AL extra meatshield and ~15 DPS is not bad use of a skillslot either, and 4 of these will make a difference.

There are downsides though, like investing the attribute points, the 4 extra bodies will also mean more work for the monks and all these close-combat characters make a nice target for AoE which can lead to your group getting wiped fast in some situations.

In your implementation there are four pets, but two of them are on next to nothing Beastmastery and they will hardly do any damage, nor contribute much. The warrior uses these points to spec Tactics for Watch Yourself!, which does not help the pets - only partymembers - who'd be the ones to benefit the most from the +AL (assuming they do draw fire). Pets are allies, not partymembers and they do not use skills(1). The paragon has a similar problem, no damage from the pet and little support for the pets.

(1)Brown and Black Bears do use a skill Brutal Mauling.

pygar · Feb 16, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

@ Amy

All of what you said is totally true for the build, the pets are there as meatshield and do a nice job of keeping melee monsters off of the mid and backline.(plus add at least a little bit of damage to the frontline attack) They are totally expendable when they die, except for spot, he is the only one worth bringing back mid battle. The monk has so much beast mastery because then the pets get rezzed back with higher hp when I do bring em back. I know the vast majority of the shouts I use do nothing for the beasts , but they are great skills for keeping the core group going even if the wolves kick the bucket. (they do at least get "Go For The Eyes!", which is why I put "Make Your Time" on Hayda's bar too, in hopes of getting GFTE as much as possible)

Other notes about the build:

I know the skill [skill]Hundred Blades[/skill] is not the best elite, I've read forum after forum about it and know full and well that Triple Chop would be better if I had a nice axe for Koss. I am even more familiar with Dragon Slash from playing Turai's story in the BMP, and for some reason Koss doesn't seem to use it very efficiently. I like the combo possibilities that are there with 100blades and the other attack skills I have there, and Koss seems to use the skill very nicely. I wish they would give the skill a little bump like they have been doing with others recently, for now it works good enough for Koss. (which I did just find a nice axe for, so maybe after I get some mods I'll change some stuff on him)

The Monk build is the build I'm the most open to suggestions about, I have the least experience with monk and am fully willing to admit that it is a very peicemeal build. As I already mentioned the reason Tahlkora has such high beast mastery is for revive animal, I could drop the spec. down but then the monks have to heal the wolves that much more out of combat. (and then take that much longer to recharge for the next battle) Even though earlier I said the wolves are expendable, I have rezzed them again mid battle and had it help that they came back with a good chunk of their life bar to start with. For anybody who missed it when I said it earlier Revive Animal needs to be disabled and controlled manually, Tahlkora does not use good judgment when using the skill in or out of combat- it is however the only Hero skill in the build that needs to be managed.

Clarissa F · Feb 18, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Running a pet on anything other than a ranger, except for snits and giggles, is bad.

Running a Sup and two Majors on a WARRIOR is bad.

Running Sup runes, other than vigor, on a ranger is bad.

Running builds on heroes you have to micromanage constantly is bad(unless you have epic OCD).

Posting a build and asking for criticism, then QQing and placing rules for criticism when you get it = /fail.

Aldric · Feb 18, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

I ran a team for pets through NF but it was done knowing I had gimped myself in damage output , I just really wanted to play with 4 pets

Think I ran with all hero's on 8 BM ish and 450 health

R/Rt BHA (me)
2 x R/Rt Splinter Barrage
A/R Critical Barrager
+Healer + 2 Warrior +a.n.other Henchies iirc

Sometimes its fun just to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO around

Marverick · Feb 18, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Running a pet on anything other than a ranger, except for snits and giggles, is bad.

Running a Sup and two Majors on a WARRIOR is bad.

Running Sup runes, other than vigor, on a ranger is bad.

Running builds on heroes you have to micromanage constantly is bad(unless you have epic OCD).

Posting a build and asking for criticism, then QQing and placing rules for criticism when you get it = /fail.

Superior Runes on Rangers are fine in PvE for stuff like Prepared Shot and Expert's Dexterity when you need the breakpoint. You're not going to get targeted by mobs much since you're at the same distance as casters and have more armor, and if you do, you always have your fail safe button (AKA Lightning Reflexes) that makes that train of level 28 melee bashing on you suddenly turn into pea shooters

trankle · Feb 20, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygar

The Monk build is the build I'm the most open to suggestions about, I have the least experience with monk and am fully willing to admit that it is a very peicemeal build. As I already mentioned the reason Tahlkora has such high beast mastery is for revive animal, I could drop the spec. down but then the monks have to heal the wolves that much more out of combat. (and then take that much longer to recharge for the next battle) Even though earlier I said the wolves are expendable, I have rezzed them again mid battle and had it help that they came back with a good chunk of their life bar to start with. For anybody who missed it when I said it earlier Revive Animal needs to be disabled and controlled manually, Tahlkora does not use good judgment when using the skill in or out of combat- it is however the only Hero skill in the build that needs to be managed.

I would make two suggestions:

1. On every hero, raise BM. Not only will it increase the pets' damage, but it will decrease the skill blackout time that occurs whenever a pet dies. The skill blackout time is pretty brutal at 2 and 3 BM. Raising BM to at least 9 or 10 will make your team more efficient.

2. I would replace the monk hero. Since you are already using two hench monks, you shouldn't need a third monk in most NM areas. In its place I would recommend a Curses Necro. You've got seven sources of steady (though low) physical damage. Try throwing Barbs and Mark of Pain into the mix and watch what happens. Spiteful Spirit or Icy Veins would work for the elite, and you'd still have room for Enfeebling Blood, Well of Ruin, etc.

Hope that helps.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 20, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

in where anything works and as long as you have fun with it i would say run it. With H/H however dont come and say its godly and i am fine which you didn't so i;m fine with your build......though i wanna try this for 2 man with sabway
this could be fun

Alex the Great · Feb 20, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

in where anything works and as long as you have fun with it i would say run it. With H/H however dont come and say its godly and i am fine which you didn't so i;m fine with your build......though i wanna try this for 2 man with sabway
this could be fun

but with sabway you could have a team of 4 mentally retarded boyscouts and still win (^_^)