Curse

Alex the Great · Apr 07, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

If you where doing a VwK farm (which kills everything at once), but added in vengrul weapon to spam, would the staggering of the deaths not activate the problem that happens when everything dies at once?

Masao · Apr 07, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

By definition, staggering the deaths means everything does not die at the same time therefore the problem doesn't occur.

Also, even with VwK the mobs don't necessarily die at the same time. When I'm getting mobbed by Luxon Sins, they die about a second after one another even when I'm not spamming Vengeful.

Either way, if you're farming with VwK you're going to run Vengeful anyway. There really isn't a reason not to.

Antithesis · Apr 07, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

VwK is not AoE, you get staggered drops.
Ancestor's Rage is AoE, you may lose drops.

Alex the Great · Apr 07, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

k, sounds like i can use my rit without worries then!

thebullion24k · Apr 08, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Weren't there tests on this?

I'm sure I saw a thread of someone and his brother farming Fahrur and they got the same amount of drops regardless of how many they killed at once.

I think people witness luck at it's best and make illusory correlations from them...

Antithesis · Apr 08, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

There's a difference in the number of chalks that drop and AoE has yet to be properly tested (they used SoJ vs SV, an AoE earth build was tested but didn't kill more than 3 at a time).

Lootscale exempt items appear to be predetermined on instance creation. If you're after more merchfood don't use AoE. VwK isn't AoE, so the OP is in the clear.

kratimas · Apr 08, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Ya, if you use ReZDoGGs 330 Rit build you spam, vengrul weapon and Reversal of Damage which helps to stagger the killing even more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

VwK is not AoE, you get staggered drops.
Ancestor's Rage is AoE, you may lose drops.

Just a questions for you Antithesis, if VwK is not AoE then why does it cause scatter from the mobs. I thought mobs only scattered from AoE or is that not the case?

Krat

Antithesis · Apr 08, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratimas

Just a questions for you Antithesis, if VwK is not AoE then why does it cause scatter from the mobs. I thought mobs only scattered from AoE or is that not the case?

SoJ does the same. My guess is because it's damaging more than 3 enemies concurrently, it'll cause HM scatter.

kratimas · Apr 08, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

SoJ does the same. My guess is because it's damaging more than 3 enemies concurrently, it'll cause HM scatter.

That is interesting, I agree it should not be considered AoE, as it is damaging each mob individually, not because 1 mob hit then all mobs take damage like SS or Sliver would.

I guess I don't understand what ANet considers AoE and what they don't.

Oh well, thanks for the reply.

Krat

Antheus · Apr 08, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

Weren't there tests on this?

I'm sure I saw a thread of someone and his brother farming Fahrur and they got the same amount of drops regardless of how many they killed at once.

I think people witness luck at it's best and make illusory correlations from them...

Yes, the tests have confirmed that drops are defined when you enter the instance.

But hey, fighting over beliefs is like arguing who has a better imaginary friend.

Quote:

That is interesting, I agree it should not be considered AoE, as it is damaging each mob individually, not because 1 mob hit then all mobs take damage like SS or Sliver would.

I guess I don't understand what ANet considers AoE and what they don't.

They don't consider anything.

When a mob's health drops below a certain level, it checks the situation. If there are more than 3 mobs attacking already, it'll run away. As such, you'll have only 3 mobs under 50% health attacking you at any time. They may re-engage if you health fluctuates though, but generally, they'll take turns.

As such, the AoE has little, or perhaps even no effect anymore. All that matters is their health, so the trick is to spike them from 50% to 0 before they even have time to run away. Eles can do that, VwK, SoJ or similar variants however need to rely on killing 3 at a time, although which 3 depends, they may take turns.

The original AoE scatter code would trigger if mobs were hit by two consecutive AoE spells within 2 seconds. Anything more, and you'd be safe.

Dark Tykane · Apr 08, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

There's a difference in the number of chalks that drop and AoE has yet to be properly tested (they used SoJ vs SV, an AoE earth build was tested but didn't kill more than 3 at a time).

Lootscale exempt items appear to be predetermined on instance creation. If you're after more merchfood don't use AoE. VwK isn't AoE, so the OP is in the clear.

Don't you mean SV and SS
which would be a proper aoe test

Antithesis · Apr 08, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

Don't you mean SV and SS
which would be a proper aoe test

They used SoJ vs SV. The best AoE test would be a nuker - Skinny was going to try it on the large group of Skales near the city entrance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

But hey, fighting over beliefs is like arguing who has a better imaginary friend.

lolz That's a great line

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

When a mob's health drops below a certain level, it checks the situation. If there are more than 3 mobs attacking already, it'll run away. As such, you'll have only 3 mobs under 50% health attacking you at any time. They may re-engage if you health fluctuates though, but generally, they'll take turns.

Bingo, that's the better answer. I think Antheus means 3 foes, not 3 mobs.

kratimas · Apr 09, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

They don't consider anything.

When a mob's health drops below a certain level, it checks the situation. If there are more than 3 mobs attacking already, it'll run away. As such, you'll have only 3 mobs under 50% health attacking you at any time. They may re-engage if you health fluctuates though, but generally, they'll take turns.

As such, the AoE has little, or perhaps even no effect anymore. All that matters is their health, so the trick is to spike them from 50% to 0 before they even have time to run away. Eles can do that, VwK, SoJ or similar variants however need to rely on killing 3 at a time, although which 3 depends, they may take turns.

The original AoE scatter code would trigger if mobs were hit by two consecutive AoE spells within 2 seconds. Anything more, and you'd be safe.

Ah I see, thank you for the explanation. That is kind of what I thought was happening but, was not sure. As I found some things scattering from what I knew for sure was not AoE damage.

Thanks again for the explanation.

Krat

Maverick2201 · Apr 10, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratimas

That is interesting, I agree it should not be considered AoE, as it is damaging each mob individually, not because 1 mob hit then all mobs take damage like SS or Sliver would.

I guess I don't understand what ANet considers AoE and what they don't.

Oh well, thanks for the reply.

Krat

Sliver doesn't work like SS... Sliver hits one "random" enemy every time any enemy hits you. Unlike SS which hits all adjacent enemies whenever the target enemy hits you. They work differently. Just FYI.

Abedeus · Apr 10, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Actually, SS isn't that random. It's usually closest enemy and once it hits that target, it doesn't change to another unless something moves closer to you and target before it moved out of range.

Maverick2201 · Apr 10, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Actually, SS isn't that random. It's usually closest enemy and once it hits that target, it doesn't change to another unless something moves closer to you and target before it moved out of range.

I assume you're talking about Sliver and not SS... I know what you're saying; thats why I wrote random in quotation marks... the official wiki says its random but as most people know it only targets one enemy, usually until they die.