Curse

Quru · Apr 04, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

[skill]Blood is Power[/skill]

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quru

[skill]Blood is Power[/skill]

That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.

The Meth · Apr 04, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

How about this for a skill idea?

5 energy 1 cast 15 recharge
Ally with lowest health in earshot steals 25..100 health from the foe with the greatest health in earshot.

It has absolutely no chance at all of being able to be used in a spike, since it can only steal from the largest health target. It actually makes the life gaining part of life stealing USEFULL, since the healing goes to the one in the party that needs it. It would work good at simultaneously pressuring the opponents while relieving pressure on your own team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

blood bond- 10/.75/5. for 1..8 seconds +1..8 regen, -4 degen. heal for 10..80 at end.
helps a bit against heavy degen teams. acts as support skill against spikes with heavy ench removal
blood of the aggressor- 15/1/10. 10% sac. if target foe is attacking, target foe takes 5..50 damage and your party is healed for 5..50.
midline partyheal that doesn't involve e/mo hp or rits.
mark of subversion: 20 recharge, 4 duration.
makes necros better at shutdown.
ravenous gaze: 5/1/5. target foe takes 40..60 damage. all party members within earshot are healed for 30..45 health.
divine healing/heaven's delight with spike assistance and shorter recharge on a necro

I like all of those except blood of the aggressor. The 'if target foe is attacking' clause seems way too flimsy to risk 15 energy and to rely on for a party heal. There is always a decent chance that a warrior or a dervish or such will instead be chasing the kiting target at the instant you cast it, instead of actively attacking. Too risky.

rick1027 · Apr 04, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.

thats what i try to tell my fellow eles in my guild if you need energy try changing your bar instead of having one necro go bip. im constantly telling our bip dont hit me i was at 70 energy everytime you hit me i didnt need it

Kaida the Heartless · Apr 05, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.

I like this thread.

Tyla · Apr 05, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.

I like this thread.

Rarely. I would of said HA, but then balanced isn't really balanced is it? GvG rarely has them.

Marverick · Apr 06, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:

Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health.

Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health.

Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%.

Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%.

Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 06, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:

Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health.

Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health.

Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%.

Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%.

Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15.

I'd like where this is going; Ravenous Gaze being more useful, as at 15 blood magic it's useable at it's max efficiency at < 80% health.

I'd change it to something more like this;

Ravenous Gaze: Steal 5-15% target foes current health. If you are below 25-75% health, steal an additional 1-10% for every recharging Blood Magic skill. (maximum 30%)

Vampiric Swarm: Steal 5-15% from target foe and up to 2 additional foes in the area.

Unholy Feast: Steal 5-15% from up to 2-5 foes in the area.

The scalable blood magic skills for all life stealing, makes them all viable as offensive skills AND not broken, since the life steal values are all percentages of the CURRENT health of the target, making it impossible to actually kill by life steal alone.

Then, you could say, either go with a buffed life transfer, (I think the only thing it needs is a better recharge or longer duration, or both.) OR the Ravenous Gaze, depending which you'd prefer.

I don't think I'd change a thing about blood bond except make it a maintainable enchantment and lower the health degeneration to 2.
(maximum 3 targets.)

Blood Ritual? again, maintainable, -1 health degeneration to upkeep. (maximum 3 targets.)

So, with these changes; now we have a BATTERY.

His elite slot is Ravenous Gaze. He has Dark Fury and Oop (or both optional). Blood Bond and Blood Ritual. AoTB SoLS and another optional. (res?)

Blood Bond your 3 priority targets or health, and Blood Ritual 3 priority targets for energy. Dark Fury and OoP are unchanged. (lather rinse repeat for other optionals.) Use AoTB to increase blood magic for effectiveness. Ravenous Gaze//SoLS to keep your energy and health up withyour HEAVY self degen.

You could change out the Ravenous Gaze for any other blood elite, like, Well of Power or BiP ect ect and spec into just energy or health and take a self heal.

Tyla · Apr 06, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

That would only make Blood Magic worse.
It would have no place in a spike. (No, I'm not talking about Blood Spike.) And the Blood Magic line will be even weaker.

Sure, you'll throw off the degenerate crap, but you'll also keep Blood Magic to the two skills OoP and DF outside of gimmicky crap.

Pyro maniac · Apr 06, 2008, 11:40 AM // 11:40

more damage, less life-steal

jayce · Apr 06, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

fix life-stealing mechanic first before skills. anything at this point would do.

something like - if you or your target is below 50% health, the life stealing mechanic is active. otherwise you deal shadow damage.

then you all can worry about balancing the skills till your hearts content.

Jayce Of Underworld

System_Crush · Apr 06, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I can't find who said it, but I support whoever posted the idea of only being able to life steal for as much health as you are below your maximum, the rest of life steal damage is converted to shadow damage.

It makes life sacrificing a interesting mechanic instead of just a cost and would enable any perceptive ranger or ele to kill a blood spiker as his health starts to plummit before he spikes.

jayce · Apr 06, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Source: Ravenous Gaze thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

teh blood magic line has bout as many shadow dmg spells as it does lifesteal spells

i was refering to strictly teh lifesteal spells

e.g.
u cast dark pact, deal 50shadow dmg, lose 53hp (10% of 530hp)
u cast vamp gaze, target loses 53hp, u gain 53hp

this as an attempt to stop abusable blood spike
as they would have to either sac themselves (making them vulerable to spike themselves)
or use shadow dmg spells in combination w/ lifesteal (which is protable)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

i had a very similar idea about life stealing mechanic in general, only that you would steal the health up to 80% (or 100%) of your maximum health and any remaining damage dealt would be shadow damage. but since i never worked on the actual numbers yet, i just left it on the back burner.

edit: something to do with infuse health.

Jayce Of Underworld

Div · Apr 06, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I may cry the day I see a Necro in a balanced build.

I like this thread.

Orly? Watch Dark Alley vs Seppo hovi action team (rawr cup semis) or Dark Alley vs Thugz Mansion (rawr cup playoffs). Start crying now, because from what I've heard, some guilds have already started copying that build :P

wally · Apr 07, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Yeah, that Necro is a pretty sweet template. I thought it was a pretty sweet template when apr ran it.

It's insane role compression; Foul Feast and Plague Signet can be used to keep your warriors clean of blind, etc AND blind enemy physicals for free. Rend and Rip enchants strip enchantments so handily that running 3 physicals is no longer stopped by things like Aegis. And Enfeeble/weakness is a pretty sexy replacement for blind.

The only thing it *doesn't* do that the Air Ele and Mesmer characters did is interrupt. But that's why dR runs a ranger.

Oh the Necro has had a long road hasn't it? I'd be interested in hearing Ensign's analysis, too, since he has written quite a bit on previous states of Necros in GvG.

Charlotte the Harlot · Apr 07, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

I was thinking changed blood drinker or a similar boring blood skill into a withering aura equivalent but for bleeding instead of weakness. I was also thinking that well of blood could take a significant life sac and be made at target allies location with no need for a corpse.

Div · Apr 07, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally

Oh the Necro has had a long road hasn't it? I'd be interested in hearing Ensign's analysis, too, since he has written quite a bit on previous states of Necros in GvG.

Ensign still does analysis? :O

I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build.

snaek · Apr 08, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

That's a waste of an elite slot. If your Monks need BiP, or even BR, especially in PvE, they're bad.

u dun bip teh monks

u bip teh eles
so they can spam rodgorts without wastin their elite on ele attunement or mind blast

and blood magic needs to move in teh direction of angorodons gaze and strip enchantment
less direct dmg and more utility
more pressure, less spike
etc, etc

let it cause conditions more easily
its "blood magic" and u cant even cause bleeding, wtf?
let blood drinker cause bleeding to self and target foe

blood - bleeding, deep wound
curse - weakness, crippled, cracked armour, blind
death - poison, disease

necros should be the master of conditions...
but unfortunately, they're not

if u let blood spike rely on deep wound like other spikes
it makes it more protable
(through draw or rc, etc)
even if teh lifesteal cant be prevented

thats one of teh viable options to make it protable
teh other is kiting
i.e. makin lifesteal half-ranged spells

turning lifesteal into dark dmg is not a viable option at all to making it protable
as it would no longer be 'lifesteal'

another option to lessen bloodmagic spike
is to change lifesteal ratio to 1:2 and reduce amount

i.e. vampiric gaze - target foe loses 40hp, u gain 80hp

wally · Apr 08, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Ensign still does analysis? :O

I think it's come from being just used in necrospike and hex teams over the past year to being a strong condi-management character in the apr heavy condis build, to a general defense/support character in a heavy physicals build.

Well he certainly hasn't of late, but, well sometimes y'never know why someone is on sabbatical or whether the sabbatical is actually retirement or what not

Yeah, I think that's a pretty good estimation of the necro inclusion in gvg. Condi-management is a wonderful niche for them.

Also, <3 divine

DDL · Apr 08, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Make the magnitude of blood spells scale to health instead of direct loss to prevent blood spike (since the spike can't kill). For example:

Vampiric Gaze: Steal 5...15% of target foe's current health.

Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% health. If target foe is attacking, steal 5...15% of its current health from it. Else, target foe loses 5...15% of its health.

Shadow Strike / Lifebane Strike: If target foe is above 50% health, it loses 10...30% of its current health. Else, it loses 5...15%.

Ravenous Gaze: If you are below 30...80% health, steal 50% of target foe's current health. Else, steal 25%.

Life Transfer: Target foe loses 10% health of its health every second for 1...10 seconds. All allies within earshot of target foe gain 5...15% of this. Bump the recharge down to 15.

That would make any of the PvE uber HP bosses hilarious.

Cast Vamp gaze on the lich, gain 1500hp!