Curse

mrbilzor · Apr 04, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

All,

Just walked through Prophecies with a MM necro (Barbs is nice), and have moved on to the Factions campaign. I'm running a Ritualist, I like the utility and versatility of the class.

I just got off the Island, ran to Kamadan, this is my build:

[skill]Mighty Was Vorizun[/skill] [skill]Channeled Strike[/skill] [skill]Spirit Burn[/skill] [skill]Essence Strike[/skill] [skill]Shadowsong[/skill] [skill]Bloodsong[/skill] [skill]Gaze of Fury[/skill] [skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

Use Mighty for the energy, the next three for damage and energy, spirits to power the channeling magic, and Gaze to annoy other PvE ritualists.

The main problem is this: I'm using heroes and henchies, and they iz stoopid.

All mobs come tearing right after me, since I don't have max armor yet. So I run around a bit, get away from the four assassins crushing me. Now all my henchies are running around, too, trying to stay in formation. So I hit control+space, and tell them to attack who I'm attacking. Ooops, I'm holding ashes, so now I'm just running back into a mob, and my crew is right behind me.

I'm not using Resto skills because my crew doesn't attack unless I am. And unless I keep calling targets, they run around and slap random mobs, if I'm lucky.

So I'm in a bit of a pickle. Do I just spirit spam and drop flags and kite mobs into my sidekicks? That seems like a craptastic way to play. If I drop a flag and send the crew into a mob before me, they all get wiped more often than not.

So, Rit experts, how do you work around henchies AI in order to run a support build?

Alex Morningstar · Apr 04, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

What I did when I still played my Ritualist and I was playing with h/h, was wand my target, use item spell. When I play my monk, I don't really wand a whole lot other than the initial battle and I don't seem to have too much trouble killing off priority targets first. Sometimes heros will pick a shitty target, but usually they seem to go after monks and support, or whomever is screwing your party up the most.

Dawn Angelheart · Apr 04, 2008, 01:58 PM // 13:58

maybe flag the H/H into the mob? have them aggro the mob. and then you move in and support.

Ghostcell · Apr 04, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

heroes and henchies aren't stupid, its the person that commands them that makes stupid mistakes.

buy max armor, learn to call targets for the h/h, ping them back and pull groups when you need to.

Murmel · Apr 04, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I'm a resto rit (and have been since I created my rit bout 15 months ago) and never have problems with calling targets. I usually call when I'm casting a spirit, and by then your not able to wand or attack anything. And the heros and hench still attack the mob. WHEN I have ashes in my build, I tend to call the target and quickly press the key that makes you character go backwards. That's an easy way of doing it. Most of the times you don't aggro very much and if you do, as long as you have 2-3 healers you can just stand there and wait for the warrior or some close combat guy to take the aggro.

So, try calling when casting one of your spirits. It works 90% of the times for me. Not 100% as the hench and hero AI is extremely stupid...

Hope that helped anything

Edit: Henchies are kinda cool in the AI, but hero's... They are so horrible. Only good thing really is that you can make their build as you want.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostcell

heroes and henchies aren't stupid, its the person that commands them that makes stupid mistakes.

buy max armor, learn to call targets for the h/h, ping them back and pull groups when you need to.

So does that mean when I run a melee hero and s/he aggros everything in the map *with or without flags* like some sort of crazed wammo who usually spams "Tank lfg" pre-Ursan in ToA it's my fault?

Sometimes H/H are beyond your control.

@The OP -- Fit Ancestors' Rage and Splinter Weapon into that bar. Take a ranged hero / hench (Ranger (preferably BHA Epedemic with Volley) or Paragon). Put in some resto skills like Protective was Kaolai for party healing, Weapon of Warding for an unremovable block ect.

the ruloes · Apr 04, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Needz moar splinter + ancestors.

Shift + Ctrl + Space = "I'm targeting XXX", I.e. you won't run after 'em.

And, of course, buy max armour!

The Meth · Apr 04, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbilzor

All,

Just walked through Prophecies with a MM necro (Barbs is nice), and have moved on to the Factions campaign. I'm running a Ritualist, I like the utility and versatility of the class.

I just got off the Island, ran to Kamadan, this is my build:
[skill]Mighty Was Vorizun[/skill] [skill]Channeled Strike[/skill] [skill]Spirit Burn[/skill] [skill]Essence Strike[/skill] [skill]Shadowsong[/skill] [skill]Bloodsong[/skill] [skill]Gaze of Fury[/skill] [skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]
Use Mighty for the energy, the next three for damage and energy, spirits to power the channeling magic, and Gaze to annoy other PvE ritualists.
The main problem is this: I'm using heroes and henchies, and they iz stoopid.
All mobs come tearing right after me, since I don't have max armor yet. So I run around a bit, get away from the four assassins crushing me. Now all my henchies are running around, too, trying to stay in formation. So I hit control+space, and tell them to attack who I'm attacking. Ooops, I'm holding ashes, so now I'm just running back into a mob, and my crew is right behind me.
I'm not using Resto skills because my crew doesn't attack unless I am. And unless I keep calling targets, they run around and slap random mobs, if I'm lucky.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle. Do I just spirit spam and drop flags and kite mobs into my sidekicks? That seems like a craptastic way to play. If I drop a flag and send the crew into a mob before me, they all get wiped more often than not.
So, Rit experts, how do you work around henchies AI in order to run a support build?

First off: you need max armor. Chances are as soon as you get it you will be just fine, but without it you are horribly gimped and have to deal with a much harder game then normally.

I would recommend you change your build into a channeling/restoration hybrid. Rit's have a few very overpowering skills in each of those attributes, while the rest are fairly so-so. Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's rage are your main sources of damage, very cheap for their high damage output and spammability. Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul will provide cheap and effective healing. Then take Life and Protective Was Kaolai as good party-wide healing. Protective was Kaolai will also give you some armor which should help take the "KILL ME!" sign off your forehead. When you get later in the game I would recommend you get Offering of Spirit, which provides huge energy and really lets you spam everything on your bar.

You don't tell us what henchies or hero's you have. Since you said you went to kamadan I am assuming that you have dunkoro, tahlkora, koss, melonni, and either sousuke or jin.

I would suggest you go to tyria and get Olias, then run him as a MM. Minion masters just rule PvE, no question. I would then suggest either sousuke or jin, as ele's and rangers are very flexible in dealing with enemies. The 3rd hero could be koss or a monk, though both probably aren't the best choice. With you as restoration, a hero monk isn't that great when the hench monks would do fine, and koss is just plain stupid. I would stay away from melonni, Dervish heroes just seem to have rather poor AI in determining their skill use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

So does that mean when I run a melee hero and s/he aggros everything in the map *with or without flags* like some sort of crazed wammo who usually spams "Tank lfg" pre-Ursan in ToA it's my fault?

Sometimes H/H are beyond your control.

@The OP -- Fit Ancestors' Rage and Splinter Weapon into that bar. Take a ranged hero / hench (Ranger (preferably BHA Epedemic with Volley) or Paragon). Put in some resto skills like Protective was Kaolai for party healing, Weapon of Warding for an unremovable block ect.

You run melee?

Melee heroes or henchmen are generally terrible, because if you ever change targets they feel the need to change too. Or if you decide to kite, the heroes decide they need to come with you. It goes on and on. There also isn't all that much reason to take a melee hero over a hench hero. Why? Even if a warrior had no skills or terrible skills like hench's do, they will still do 60-70% of the damage a warrior hero would deal out by virtue of auto-attack damage. So the gain be bringing a hero melee over a hench melee is far less then offensive casters or midliners, who just plain suck all around compared to the specialized builds a player can make up.

Sometimes henchmen or heroes do get overaggressive, but a quick flag will always save you before they can aggro a second group. And even if you do overaggro, a well thought out hero/hench group has as good a chance of beating any 2 given mobs as a PuG has of beating 1.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

You run melee?

Melee heroes or henchmen are generally terrible, because if you ever change targets they feel the need to change too. Or if you decide to kite, the heroes decide they need to come with you. It goes on and on. There also isn't all that much reason to take a melee hero over a hench hero. Why? Even if a warrior had no skills or terrible skills like hench's do, they will still do 60-70% of the damage a warrior hero would deal out by virtue of auto-attack damage. So the gain be bringing a hero melee over a hench melee is far less then offensive casters or midliners, who just plain suck all around compared to the specialized builds a player can make up.

Sometimes henchmen or heroes do get overaggressive, but a quick flag will always save you before they can aggro a second group. And even if you do overaggro, a well thought out hero/hench group has as good a chance of beating any 2 given mobs as a PuG has of beating 1.

Read again.

I suggested a Ranger with BHA, Volley and Epidemic, and / or a Paragon hero.

Unless you were talking about the first line, basically I'm also describing how retarded melee heroes are. ;o

spirit of defeat · Apr 04, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

question, why do your use shadow song? you can't keep it up, i suppose you use gaze over it?

Oso Minar · Apr 04, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

If I'm playing with Heroes and Henchmen, I don't run a restoration build. It's much less of a headache to just run attack skills.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 04, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

[skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill]

Everything else is just icing.

Eilo Rytyj · Apr 05, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

My Rit's still only a month or so old, I'm about half way thru Proph missions with her, but I've had success not only with H/H but with guildies too with a simple Channeling/Resto build, pretty much straight off Noob Jea Island:

[skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]essence strike[/skill][skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]mend body and soul[/skill][skill]vengeful weapon[/skill][skill]bloodsong[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill]

I'll chop and change in skills like [skill]weapon of warding[/skill], [skill]vampirism[/skill], [skill]recuperation[/skill], [skill]protective was kaolai[/skill]+[skill]channeled strike[/skill], [skill]spirit burn[/skill] if the situation demands it. No Elites on this char yet btw.

I don't particularly find it a headache to use resto skills, especially if it's my Vengeful/Warding Weapon/heal that's just saved one of the monkey henchies from keeling over to a huge hulking beastie wailing on them.

I agree that an AI melee toon is more of a bane than a boon, but it does give you easy Ancestors' Rage fodder since they usually end up right in the middle of the action.

The Meth · Apr 05, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Read again.

I suggested a Ranger with BHA, Volley and Epidemic, and / or a Paragon hero.

Unless you were talking about the first line, basically I'm also describing how retarded melee heroes are. ;o

I was making fun of the fact that you would even think about using a melee hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilo Rytyj

My Rit's still only a month or so old, I'm about half way thru Proph missions with her, but I've had success not only with H/H but with guildies too with a simple Channeling/Resto build, pretty much straight off Noob Jea Island:

[skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]essence strike[/skill][skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]mend body and soul[/skill][skill]vengeful weapon[/skill][skill]bloodsong[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill]

I'll chop and change in skills like [skill]weapon of warding[/skill], [skill]vampirism[/skill], [skill]recuperation[/skill], [skill]protective was kaolai[/skill]+[skill]channeled strike[/skill], [skill]spirit burn[/skill] if the situation demands it. No Elites on this char yet btw.

I don't particularly find it a headache to use resto skills, especially if it's my Vengeful/Warding Weapon/heal that's just saved one of the monkey henchies from keeling over to a huge hulking beastie wailing on them.

I agree that an AI melee toon is more of a bane than a boon, but it does give you easy Ancestors' Rage fodder since they usually end up right in the middle of the action.

That looks like a pretty solid build, though in my opinion you could use [skill]Spirit Light[/skill], which is just an insanely big heal for cheap energy.

Winterclaw · Apr 05, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Melee heroes or henchmen are generally terrible, because if you ever change targets they feel the need to change too.

You can lock melee heroes on a target.

llsektorll · Apr 05, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

How to play PvE?

Why that is elementary my dear Watson...

go to youtube watch leeroy jenkins video.... make a level 20 warrior monk with with healing breeze and reenact what you see in the video.

Terraban · Apr 06, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

[skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill]

Everything else is just icing.

Quoted for truth.

/thread

mrbilzor · Apr 07, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

So, pretty much, play smarter with better armor. And Ancestor's Rage. Got it.

For Splinter and Ancestor's, how do you quickly select the H/H and cast? I don't mean, what do I do? I mean, how do you do it.

Rephrase: What is the mapping of your keys?

Tyla · Apr 07, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

You can change it to however you like.

When playing a support role, imo the best keys are the number pad assigned to the party member numbers.

Or just click on them on the battlefield.
Keeping an eye on the field is key to being any good.

Bront · Apr 07, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

You can lock melee heroes on a target.

No, you're thinking of Animal Companions.