Curse

Frank Dudenstein · Jan 11, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

I must admit, I don't know nearly as much about HA as I do about GvG. From what I do know, i would say that mind blast isn't being abused here either. HA mostly consists of IWAY, Ranger spike, and AoE-way using Savannah Heat Elementalists and stuff. Therefore, I don't believe that Mind Blast will be nerfed any time soon. It seams to be a pretty balanced skill in my book.

Actually ... Mind Blast is being abused in HA ... look at most "balanced" teams and you will usually find 2 Mind Blast spammers that cast Rodgorts on recharge and use leftover energy to power other 15E things like Aegis or Fall Back (as well as searing/tenai's heat). On maps that require close quarter fighting - like half of them - the damage output is insane.

Honestly, its mostly a map issue, but its also an overpowered skill, tho not the only one (hello splinter weapon).

tonyh · Jan 11, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I have a question. When you use a bunch of skills accidently without Mind blast in between and get to about 20 energy or so, and all the creatures around you have 30 energy, how do you get it back up?

Do you wait or is there a trick? Or is it better just to spam mindblast and hope that they get lower energy?

Utaku · Jan 11, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyh

I have a question. When you use a bunch of skills accidently without Mind blast in between and get to about 20 energy or so, and all the creatures around you have 30 energy, how do you get it back up?

Do you wait or is there a trick? Or is it better just to spam mindblast and hope that they get lower energy?

You switch to a dual +15-1 set (single is usually enough if a warrior is around), have suddendly 50 energy, cast two mind blasts, and get back to work.

xDusT II · Jan 12, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I feel sorry for Divine for having to constantly edit his post to spoon feed what should be obvious information to the clueless.

Why on earth would you argue the validity of taking various ressurect skills on a single party member. You have 7 other party members with 7 other options for 7 other possible ressurect skills. Taking rebirth on one character does not mean everyone has rebirth and it does not mean your only going to be ressurecting people outside of battle.

Any decent team should have a balance of combat resses like Sigs and DPS, and non combat resses such as Chant, Return and Rebirth. It should be bloody obvious how where and when each ressurect should be used.

Quote:

Why would you ever wait until you are out of combat to rez someone?

Because in some situations it's better to run than to sit around res and die.

Example: You over aggro, people start dying you can either
A) Res em up and proceed to die again
B) Run away, wait for enemies to return to normal patrols, come back and res them safely.

Quote:

Anyone who thinks rebirth is a good skill should just /uninstall Guild Wars now!

An entire team with Rebirth is bad. Having one or two copies to prevent an entire wipe is not. Rebirth is your insurance against a party wipe sending you back to town.
Oh and by the way, you suck at elitism.

qazwersder · Jan 12, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Im amazed this is still going.

Rebirth is a good skill. It situational yes, but every skill is. All rezzes have their pro's and con's.

angmar_nite · Jan 12, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

I only pack rebirth in HM and elite areas and if no one else does. I don't expect to wipe in anything less, and more damage or utility to pwn more is generally prefered.

Zhaos o Bravo · Jan 15, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Hi all, i dont understand why theres so much people talking about rebirth this is about a nuker build.
I started a elementalist and now im sure wich elite im going to use in a fire build; Mind Blast

.
Thank's for the post holymasamune.

hurdlebeast · Jan 15, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

it's because holymasamune made the incredibly insane comment that ele/monks might want to fill in one of their open slots with rebirth...a totally irresponsible, stupid move on his part, obviously....

Brian the Gladiator · Jan 15, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I still STRONGLY believe that no one should ever bring rebirth. I'm sorry. There is no place that it would be acceptable under any circumstances.

Why would you ever want an "out-of-combat" resurrection skill. If your team over-aggros and forces you to run away, that means you are the only person alive on the team. If that is the case, than just suicide and res at the shrine or leave the group and use heros because there is no reason why you should EVER party wipe in PvE.

Hard resurrecting is what keeps teams from party wiping in the first place. if someone dies and they get resurrected immediately, then that person that just was ressed can now help get you out of the fight.

As you may know, I primarily PvP. More specifically, I GvG. One thing you will learn if you do this is that there is a time and a place for strategic deaths. If you are pushing on a team that is an inch away from breaking and party wiping, but your monks are calling for a fall back, the smart team will allow at least one monk to die and get ressed by death pact. What this will do is restore the monks energy completely. Yes the monk has DP but if it allows your team to continue their push and ultimately break the other teams defenses, it can be worth it.

This same principle can be applied to PvE to some extent. If people on your team are dieing and you don't res them, you will lose the fight. Plain and simple.

I am not an elitist. I simply know when I am correct and others are not.

Solstace · Jan 15, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Only trouble with mind blast is when you are playing in HM - enemies have more energy and if you are playing against an ele boss. . . . .

But I agree that it generally gives you a spammable way of recharging your energy and a good way to keep spamming rodgort's as well.

Ensign · Jan 15, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Why would you ever want an "out-of-combat" resurrection skill.

Because your team is bad. Some people need to get through the game with bad teams, and Rebirth is a useful skill to have on those teams. Even moreso, it's a useful skill for the *better* players on those teams to have, because they are the ones likely to survive when a bunch of people overaggro and don't bother to pull out and otherwise make a mess of things.

I would say that I'd just bring scrolls over Rebirth, because if I actually cared that's what I'd do. But if I'm in a pug that's bad enough that I'd consider bringing Rebirth, I probably don't care, and certainly don't care enough to spend money to bail everyone out if they fail spectacularly. If pugs were my primary mode of play, though, I'd consider scrolls over Rebirth.

Mouse at Large · Jan 15, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solstace

Only trouble with mind blast is when you are playing in HM - enemies have more energy and if you are playing against an ele boss. . . . .

But I agree that it generally gives you a spammable way of recharging your energy and a good way to keep spamming rodgort's as well.

Go with a high energy set, then choose your targets wisely. You will still have more energy that everyone except HM eles.......

Keekles · Jan 15, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Bringing rebirth on 1-2 characters in HM is generally a good idea, at least IMO. When you're playing in normal mode with a PUG, it is also generally a good idea to bring rebirth. Since pugs have some fatal attraction to party wipes.

angmar_nite · Jan 15, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

If that is the case, than just suicide and res at the shrine or leave the group and use heros because there is no reason why you should EVER party wipe in PvE.

Suicide = DP. Less dp > 15 DP

tmakinen · Jan 16, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

I still STRONGLY believe that no one should ever bring rebirth. I'm sorry. There is no place that it would be acceptable under any circumstances.

(...)

I am not an elitist. I simply know when I am correct and others are not.

Um, have you ever noticed that when PvE players voice strong opinions about how PvP should be played, hilarity ensues? Here we have a case where the tables have been turned. Just to conclusively point out that the statement quoted above is indeed wrong I'd like to remind that on the PvE side there are specific strategies built around sacrificing yourself and getting rebirthed to a place that you wouldn't be able to reach otherwise.

Now, getting to a more 'normal' use of rebirth, I wouldn't take it if I was in a party where every player is about as skilled as me as that would be pretty pointless. I wouldn't necessarily even take it in a PUG - if the party is bad enough to need constant rebirthing it's time to find another PUG. I might take it when there are herohenchies in the party - sometimes the AI just fails atrociously and I don't feel like getting any DP just because Zhed thought that he's an invinciele and leeroyed into 3 adjacent mobs.

I will take rebirth when partying with friends who might not be the greatest player in the game. Sure, I can give advice in making decent builds. I can scribble on the radar to show proper positioning. I can give instructions on proper execution over chat or vent. Despite all this, spectacular failures are still an option. I'm the only one not doing penalty time, it's a mission so if I die we have to start over from the beginning, they are my friends so dumping them is not an option, mobs are camping the bodies, it's time for ... rebirth, some additional advice and a new attempt. Well, it can get tedious but I value friendship over in-game competence.

Div · Jan 16, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

I will take rebirth when partying with friends who might not be the greatest player in the game. Sure, I can give advice in making decent builds. I can scribble on the radar to show proper positioning. I can give instructions on proper execution over chat or vent. Despite all this, spectacular failures are still an option. I'm the only one not doing penalty time, it's a mission so if I die we have to start over from the beginning, they are my friends so dumping them is not an option, mobs are camping the bodies, it's time for ... rebirth, some additional advice and a new attempt. Well, it can get tedious but I value friendship over in-game competence.

This is one of the main reasons I'd take it.

Just got back to check on this thread and it's grown... :O

xDusT II · Jan 16, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This is one of the main reasons I'd take it.

Just got back to check on this thread and it's grown... :O

I would say it's more morphed into a conversation about Rebirth instead of Mind Blast.

Lhim · Jan 16, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

I would say it's more morphed into a conversation about Rebirth instead of Mind Blast.

I vote for sticky in the monk section.

martialis · Jan 16, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Flame flame flame!

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Spec into air for gale and blinding flash.

Steam and Deep Freeze, please. And, uh, Shame? But not Gale, though. Boo for air! Yay for water!

xDusT II · Jan 17, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

Flame flame flame!

Steam and Deep Freeze, please. And, uh, Shame? But not Gale, though. Boo for air! Yay for water!

I'd much rather run B.Flash over steam on a mindblast bar but unless I really need those PvE spots I'd probably take "You move like a dwarf!" over Gale.