Curse

xDusT II · Jan 09, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Rebirth is really only useful when someone was stupid and died at the feet of a large number of enemies.

LifeInfusion · Jan 09, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I agree Mindblast + rodgort's allows for flexibility. It also allows you to deal with enchantment stripping a lot better than dual attunements or searing flames and stuff that doesn't burn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Rebirth is really only useful when someone was stupid and died at the feet of a large number of enemies.

it has zero recharge, and if you energy swap there's no drawback

...Though flesh of my flesh has 0 recharge also but it is harder to chain it.

Death Pact signet works for fast resurrects when you don't have Glyph of Sacrifice for Resurrection Chant.

xDusT II · Jan 09, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

it has zero recharge, and if you energy swap there's no drawback

...Though flesh of my flesh has 0 recharge also.

Recharge time really isn't what sells ressurect skills. If you managed to party wipe, you can probably wait the extra 8-20 seconds for a res to recharge.
Other than that Rebirth isn't a bad Ressurect skill, it's just that it's drawback is it's inability to be used anywhere else but outside battle. It's nice to have one copy for insurance in case someone dies at a bad location. Otherwise I wouldn't go overboard on it, there are better resses which have much more versatility (ie, usable in battle) that are really more valuable to have more of in your party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Death Pact signet works for fast resurrects when you don't have Glyph of Sacrifice for Resurrection Chant.

Death Pact Signet is your best bet for combat-res seeing how it doesn't really jeopardize someone's situation by bringing them back only to be killed again, or creating discomforts for the caster.
I've only really brought Glyph of Sacrifice and Ressurection Chant when I'm using Glyph of Sacrifice for something else as well, otherwise blowing 2 skills on a ressurect is pretty wasteful.

Lord of the Yoshis · Jan 09, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

/signed

I have been playing Ele for close to two years, and Mind Blast has stayed on my bar longer than any other Elite.

Grammar · Jan 09, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

There are four kinds of Elementalists in Guild Wars:

1. Ele that does relatively high (but not crazy high) damage and has little to no utility
2. Ele that does decent damage and has a decent amount of utility
3. Ele that does low damage and has a lot of utility
4. Ele that does crazy high damage

Can you figure out which builds each of the 4 Eles use?
If you haven't figured it out, here are the answers:

1. SF Ele
2. Mind Blast Ele
3. Utility Ele (elites vary, but Blinding Surge is a good example)
4. Imaginary does-not-exist Ele from make believe land

The real question that needs to be addressed is which of the 4 (ok, 3) Eles is the most valuable to their PvE party. Your answers may vary, but I'd suggest Ele #2.

My beef with threads like this is that no one discusses why it's a good idea to run Mind Blast in PvE over other Ele builds that have higher damage such as SF (as well as dual attunement echo RI, and sometimes triple heat and AP nukers).
Running Mind Blast is a good idea because, as en Ele, you're never going to be able to do crazy high damage anyway, so you might as well sacrifice some of that less-than-stellar damage potential and throw in some utility to help the party out.
That said, it's probably not the best idea in PvE to sacrifice ALL of your damage potential to run a pure utility Ele; you want your damage to at least be respectable. And this is where Mind Blast comes in. Mind Blast builds are like a happy medium. You still get to do a decent amount of damage thanks to Rodgort's Invocation, and at the same time you free up half of your skill bar to run whatever utility you want. THAT'S why Mind Blast is a good idea.

So in the future, please realize that threads like this aren't really as helpful as you might think, because people will see the word "best" in the title and take it to mean "highest damage" (which is not the case with Mind Blast) because of the old and misguided idea that Eles are nothing but damage and the best Ele is the the Ele that does the most damage.

EDIT: For the record, Mind Blast didn't become a good skill until the day RI's recast was reduced from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. That was one of the biggest buffs in the history of Guild Wars IMO.

arcanemacabre · Jan 09, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I haven't capped this on my Ele yet, but I can completely see where this is simply amazing. The questions I have are: Will this be nerfed if it's so good? Is this being used/abused in PvP to warrant a nerf? Or is this mainly a PvE thing and will likely remain untouched?

Div · Jan 09, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

This is added to the beginning:
Because idiots like to flame for little things like me saying go /Mo for rebirth, I included it for completeness, not because I'd personally take it. Rebirth, while horrible on a monk (because they should actively use all 8 skill slots), is strong on a midliner, who can run away from battle and prevent a whole teamwipe (like missions). Having it on an ele makes just as much sense as having it on any other midline caster. You'll be using this outside of battle anyways, and even if you do use it in battle, mind blast can easily get your energy back up much faster than any other caster nearly instantly (so the bigger energy pool lost isn't even an argument).

cellardweller · Jan 09, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I haven't capped this on my Ele yet, but I can completely see where this is simply amazing. The questions I have are: Will this be nerfed if it's so good? Is this being used/abused in PvP to warrant a nerf? Or is this mainly a PvE thing and will likely remain untouched?

The skill has always given you practically limitless energy, the problem was that before the august skill balance, there wasn't that many uses for it. In aug, rodgorts went from 3c/15r to 2c/5r which gave eles spammable high energy high damage non-elite and in the same update LoD was nerfed bringing the previously outclassed Heal Party back into play. That being said, I don't see the use of MB in these contexts as creating degenerate play so it will probably slide by for at least the next skill balance.

LightningHell · Jan 09, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

EDIT: For the record, Mind Blast didn't become a good skill until the day RI's recast was reduced from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. That was one of the biggest buffs in the history of Guild Wars IMO.

I'd beg to differ - from what I remember, even before the Rodgort's Invocation buff, people still ran Mind Blast. It was that good - I seem to also remember it having to be nerfed.

EDIT: Poster below is right.

Kale Ironfist · Jan 09, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I'd beg to differ - from what I remember, even before the Rodgort's Invocation buff, people still ran Mind Blast. It was that good - I seem to also remember it having to be nerfed.

Only after its damage was buffed from [email protected] to [email protected] Fire Magic.

Cebe · Jan 09, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

Only after its damage was buffed from [email protected] to [email protected] Fire Magic.

I disagree. The additional damage was just a bonus thing in my mind. I was using it chuck out Immolates and Fireballs along with Snares / Wards / Utility of my choice from other elements or secondary professions before the buff to R.I.. The reason Mind Blast is good is the energy return.

Kale Ironfist · Jan 09, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I disagree. The additional damage was just a bonus thing in my mind. I was using it chuck out Immolates and Fireballs along with Snares / Wards / Utility of my choice from other elements or secondary professions before the buff to R.I.. The reason Mind Blast is good is the energy return.

I was referring to the nerf, which only affected its damage, and was only after its damage was buffed.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 09, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This is added to the beginning:
Because idiots like to flame for little things like me saying go /Mo for rebirth, I included it for completeness, not because I'd personally take it. Rebirth, while horrible on a monk (because they should actively use all 8 skill slots), is strong on a midliner, who can run away from battle and prevent a whole teamwipe (like missions). Having it on an ele makes just as much sense as having it on any other midline caster. You'll be using this outside of battle anyways, and even if you do use it in battle, mind blast can easily get your energy back up much faster than any other caster nearly instantly (so the bigger energy pool lost isn't even an argument).

Actually, I should've commented on this...

...

...

... I agree with recommending Rebirth.
Rebirth, in the hands of a good player/team, is a very bad skill and a wasted slot. People who don't suck, don't wipe. If something goes awry, they either hit their DP Sigs and finish the fight with ease; or retreat swiftly before a wipe can occur.

Bad players, on the other hand - who are exactly the kind of people who would be needing to be reading this - rely on Rebirth because they do suck, they do wipe, and they need it as a crutch to avoid failure.

Grammar · Jan 09, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

I was referring to the nerf, which only affected its damage, and was only after its damage was buffed.

Yeah, didn't it get buffed to from 60 to 75 (@15), and then nerfed back down to 60 shortly thereafter? There might have been some other changes to MB's damage in there too, I'm not sure. I seem to remember a period of time where it seemed Anet couldn't make up their minds with this skill.
MB did indeed see some love when the damage was at 75, but it was far from taking over as the Ele elite of choice.

Then they buffed the living crap out of RI during the time when SF's burning duration was still down at 5 seconds (now back at 7), and everyone and their freaking grandmother jumped on this skill like it was the second coming of Christ.
Some people went back to SF after the burning duration was restored, but by then MB had become the Ele elite of choice (and with good reason).

My point is, it was RI that made the difference, and it still is RI that makes the difference.
If they ever change RI back to the way it was for some reason (3c,15r), I'll drop MB in a second and go back to SF for PvE.

To the poster that asked about the possibility of MB being nerfed, I say don't worry about MB (which I think is safe), worry instead about RI. I believe an RI nerf to be inevitable. Not back to the way it was before, but likely a middle ground; something like 2c,10r or maybe 3c,7r. Or they could simply reduce the damage down to that of Fireball (117 @15) or down to that of SF (100 @15). Whatever it will be, something is coming, it's only a matter of time.

EDIT: there's nothing wrong with Rebirth on an Ele in a PuG, especially in areas with no rez shrines like missions. So can we please stop debating Rebirth and get back to Mind Blast?

Div · Jan 09, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Added:

Comments on different elites:
Mind blast: Decent damage by itself. Essentially infinite energy output to power other big damage or support skills.
Searing flames: Great damage and AoE. More frontloaded damage than mind blast, but can't keep the large damage output in prolonged battles. This makes it pretty useful for NM but not so much for HM.
Savannah Heat: Massive AoE damage with low energy costs. No real support for other skills. AoE causes monsters in HM to scatter and possibly wipe your team.
Mind burn: Massive one target damage, but can't be sustained at all. No easy synergy with other skills due to exhaustion. Can take down a single target easily in NM, but elite becomes completely useless for the entire duration of the mob, and is for the most part completely useless in HM.

Ensign · Jan 09, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Savannah Heat is only good if your bar is good without an elite; it's the most efficient elite in the game but doesn't do anything for your bar. Searing Flames and Mind Blast on the other hand are really money elites that do a ton, and fill out your character. I don't think Fire is deep enough to run Savannah on a serious bar.

Brian the Gladiator · Jan 09, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Searing flames: Great damage and AoE. More frontloaded damage than mind blast, but can't keep the large damage output in prolonged battles. This makes it pretty useful for NM but not so much for HM.

I disagree. Searing Flames elementalists can easily keep energy up for extended periods of time. If the bar has [skill=text]glowing gaze[/skill], [skill=text]glyph of lesser energy[/skill], and [skill=text]fire attunement[/skill], energy can be kept up quite easily. Truly, the only problem with this elite is that it is only worth bringing if you have another searing flames in the party. Most people want to bring the three N/Rts so that means this build wont be as good as a Mind Blast build.

You may want to explain further what a good [skill=text]Mind Blast[/skill] bar may look like. As of now you only have three skills listed with some options of skills to use out of a secondary profession. This still leaves a lot of slots empty with no guidance on how to fill them. suggest some more fire skills to bring, like liquid flame, searing heat, etc.

E/Rt is a good option for [skill=text]death pact signet[/skill][skill=text]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill=text]splinter weapon[/skill] (if you have melee on your team)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The questions I have are: Will this be nerfed if it's so good? Is this being used/abused in PvP to warrant a nerf? Or is this mainly a PvE thing and will likely remain untouched?

This skill has seen some play in GvG. It has never appeared to be overpowered however. Midline skill bars in the current meta really reflect what the Nightfall powercreap has brought. Basically they are used for two purposes, to shutdown the overpowered enemy defenses (monks, block-way, B-surge, etc) or to shutdown overpowered enemy offense (mitigating warrior damage or interrupting offensive casters). With this midline mentality, there is little to no room for mind blast.

I must admit, I don't know nearly as much about HA as I do about GvG. From what I do know, i would say that mind blast isn't being abused here either. HA mostly consists of IWAY, Ranger spike, and AoE-way using Savannah Heat Elementalists and stuff. Therefore, I don't believe that Mind Blast will be nerfed any time soon. It seams to be a pretty balanced skill in my book.

LifeInfusion · Jan 10, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Brian, try running that Searing flames of yours in areas with enchantment stripping and burning resistance or condition removal. I'll stick to mindblast thank you. I'll tell you first hand, Mindblast with fire attunement rocks and even without any attunements, at least you won't be useless.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 10, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Searing flames does about 5 DPS higher than mind blast, if I remember correctly. However, mind blast has a lot more bar space for useful stuff and isn't completely screwed over by enchant stripping, edenial and interrupts.

Cherng Butter · Jan 10, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Searing flames does about 5 DPS higher than mind blast, if I remember correctly. However, mind blast has a lot more bar space for useful stuff and isn't completely screwed over by enchant stripping, edenial and interrupts.

It's really that little discrepancy? Ooh, that makes me feel even better about my Mind Blasting