Curse

Tearz1993 · Mar 17, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

In PvE, mesmers arent very good.
The end

DarkSpirit · Mar 17, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

In PvE, mesmers arent very good.
The end

True that mesmers are alittle underpowered in PvE and they are alittle hard to play with. But for those who know this game well, there are lots of viable PvE mesmer builds.

JDRyder · Mar 17, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

In PvE, mesmers arent very good.
The end

mesmers are just as good and any other prof, but most ppl dont think so due to the 1234567 algorithm

MasterSasori · Mar 17, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

In PvE, mesmers arent very good.
The end

[skill]signet of illusions[/skill]

Maybe?

Coloneh · Mar 17, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

True that mesmers are alittle underpowered in PvE

this.

you admit it yourself. mesmers are underpowered in PvE, meaning they are not as good as other primaries in PvE.

as the only one still arguing for mesmers that seems to be semi-competent your the only one i need to bother replying to.

upier · Mar 17, 2008, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

mesmers are just as good and any other prof, but most ppl dont think so due to the 1234567 algorithm

Please share with us how a mesmer is as godly as a paragon.
If he isn't - the mesmer ISN'T as good as "any other prof".

JDRyder · Mar 17, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

mesmers make things go really easy, other day i was helping a friend with gate of pain, in every pug ive been in, always at least 1 pug dies by the ele bosses/Dryders. when i helped my friend, as always i had some type of mesmer in my party :P i had gwen running a PB "Power Block" bar. at the Dryders other then letting them cast any thing 1 got Power blocked, and was unable to do any thing for 13 secs "seeing how most things in pve use things of the same attribute PB is godly" as for the other dryder gwen just used Power Leak,Cry of Frustration and Guilt, my friend "who was playing monk" didnt even need to heal.

This is just 1 way a mesmer can make your life easyer. you can have 6damage dealers and 2 monks, but i dont think you 6 people doing the same thing. With 3 or 4 damage dealers, you will still kill things just as fast and you can have 2 or 3 people taking pressure off, this will not only make you able to agro more but save your monks energy and save your team from wipes

Fire Childe · Mar 17, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Please share with us how a mesmer is as godly as a paragon.
If he isn't - the mesmer ISN'T as good as "any other prof".

I dont understand this logic at all. Surely it depends entirely on the area and what else is in your party?

I recently found vanquishing Eastern Frontier was a helluva lot easier with a Mesmer than a Paragon but that would only be because of certain conditions that favour a Mesmer and make it more appropriate to bring along considering what profession I was playing (at the time I had to do it with an Ele).

In this area you can only have a 4 man party so you have to be really efficient in terms of how you deal and soak up damage because you don't have many players to work with. Ideally you need to find ways of doing lots of both at the same time. The Mesmer worked out better than a Ranger in terms of interrupting those monster heals like Heal Other and Heal Area because the Mesmer can do a big damage spike at the same time as interrupting (with skills like Power Spike). Rangers have awesome interrupts that are great with less downtime than Mes interrupts but they don't do any real damage. Mesmers can also Shatter Enchant which removes Healing Hands on the grawls and it does good damage at the same time. The AI is also very exploitable since the grawls will cast through Backfire and Empathy.

I specced a Blind Bot for that vanquish and Backfire + Shatter + Lightning Orb was enough to box those grawl healers into a corner in which they do eventually die. That particular 4 man party would not have worked without the Mesmer.

Paragons work great in larger parties that tend to stay in ear shot range. They work even better with more Paragons in the party since you can keep 3 or 4 echos up on everyone fairly easily and keep retriggering them with chants whilst recouping energy. Party support is fantastic and they can work good on their own too but not in Eastern Frontier and pretty much any area with a significant number of enemies that are packing Vocal Minority. Doing something like that is similar to running loads of warriors in an area with tonnes of warrior hate. Its just dumb.

The reason why Mesmers are not popular in PvE is because what they do best is not always visible to the rest of the team and can be mistaken for everyone else being more awesome than they really are.

It is easy to overestimate your party DPS if you have a decent Mesmer who can do things like catch Heal Area on a Shadow Monk using Power Block (thus taking out half the Monk's bar for 10+ seconds including WoH). Monk dies quickly and you never saw Heal Area get Blocked because you were bailing on something else. Pretty easy to think the win is all because of your damage dealers laying the smackdown and wastin' all the Monks energy.

You ever been in a group in hard mode where you got all your offense bailing on a 2 healer mob and you just cant bring enough damage per second to out damage the heals? Ever felt like this is going to go on forever so lets just resign and get an essense of Celerity? Damn don't you wish you had a mesmer that could power block for life and country?

---

Mesmer or Rit?

Depends on lots of things. Both are fun to play. You will find it easier getting into a pickup PvE group with a Rit.

Rits are sort of broken in the sense that they have a load of absolutely useless skills and interspersed with them are a handful of ridiculously awesome ones. What this means is that most of the time you will be running variations of the same skill bar most of the time (it will nearly always have Ancestor's Rage, Splinter Weapon and Offering of Spirit or Weapon of Remedy for your elite. If you are more of a Resto Rit then you will mostly be using skills like Protective Was Kaoli, Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul).

If you play a Mesmer then you have alot of viable alternatives as to what you can do but unless you have decent guild mates who will PvE with yoy alot, most public groups won't give a damn and you will probably end up doing that Reckless Haste/Empathy stuff or something like that. Assuming you even get into a group. I think its a shame because I tend to find every pve instance I play in can accomodate a mesmer provided everyone else in the team is willing to change a few things up to make sure theres synergy.

Tyla · Mar 18, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Or blocking.

[skill]magebane shot[/skill]

DarkSpirit · Mar 18, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

[skill]magebane shot[/skill]

There are advantages and disadvantages. If you use that then you are not using BHA, which means you dont get the dazed condition.

Coloneh · Mar 18, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

or you could just interrupt guardian before they start blocking?

DarkSpirit · Mar 18, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

or you could just interrupt guardian before they start blocking?

It depends. There are many other skills/ways to block.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Blockin...uick_reference

Tyla · Mar 18, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

There are advantages and disadvantages. If you use that then you are not using BHA, which means you dont get the dazed condition.

10 Disable. Unblockable. 5s recharge.
I would prefer disabling a spell for 10s tbh...

JDRyder · Mar 18, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

or you could just interrupt guardian before they start blocking?

1 sec cast, not going to get it unless your next to them when they cast it and even then your spaming, unless you have a 0.1-0.15 reflex

Tyla · Mar 18, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

1 sec cast, not going to get it unless your next to them when they cast it and even then your spaming, unless you have a 0.1-0.15 reflex

Let's do a little math.

S = The 1 second cast of Guardian.
I = Interrupt (1/4 sec)
F = Flight Time (Recurve Bow, 0.4 seconds)

I + F = 0.65. (Full range)
0.65 - S = 0.35.

So there you go -- It's 0.35 seconds time you have to react at full range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official Wiki

The cast time of ranger interrupts (when the arrow leaves the bow) is 1/4s and not 1/2s as the skill description says.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Distracting_Shot (Scroll to bottom)

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 18, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

mesmers are underpowered in PvE

[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill]

Want to give your entire party +60% HSR? Get a mesmer.

Want to summon very high level monsters? Get a mesmer.

Want to use PvE spells at crazy specs? Get a mesmer.

Why do people think Mesmers are so underpowered when they can do all of the things mentioned above and more.

JDRyder · Mar 18, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Let's do a little math.

S = The 1 second cast of Guardian.
I = Interrupt (1/4 sec)
F = Flight Time (Recurve Bow, 0.4 seconds)

I + F = 0.65. (Full range)
0.65 - S = 0.35.

So there you go -- It's 0.35 seconds time you have to react at full range.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Distracting_Shot (Scroll to bottom)

forgot to add R for reflex most ppl have about a 0.2-0.3 http://www.prelovac.com/vladimir/reflex-tester . i didnt know about Dshot really being a 1/4 cast, said 1/2 on the skill info so i went with 1/2.

Coloneh · Mar 18, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

It depends. There are many other skills/ways to block.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Blockin...uick_reference

no on a caster. the only ones worth looking at are aegis and guardian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

forgot to add R for reflex

.35 is your time to react. if your reflex is less than that you will hit the skill. learn basic math kthxbai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill]

Want to give your entire party +60% HSR? Get a mesmer.

Want to summon very high level monsters? Get a mesmer.

Want to use PvE spells at crazy specs? Get a mesmer.

Why do people think Mesmers are so underpowered when they can do all of the things mentioned above and more.

I thought we went over how abusing PvE skills is not a viable build. other professions just do the same things a SoI mesmer can do, except better because they have primary attributes.

Shuuda · Mar 18, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Does it matter if Mesmers are the best in PvE or whatever. After all, PvE is EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! I could do PvE with a Mending Wammo, or a Fire Storm Ranger, or an Assassin Monk, so surely a competent Mesmer will have no trouble, even without PvE skills and SoI (which is for major noobs)

In truth, Mesmer (along with W/Mo/R/E) is one of the more superior professions in the game, better than Rts balance wise, no question. Naturally, none of you will understand, because this truth take PvP into account, as it should.

DarkSpirit · Mar 18, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Does it matter if Mesmers are the best in PvE or whatever. After all, PvE is EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! EASY! I could do PvE with a Mending Wammo, or a Fire Storm Ranger, or an Assassin Monk, so surely a competent Mesmer will have no trouble, even without PvE skills and SoI (which is for major noobs)

It is not a matter of Easy or Hard. It is a matter of getting into a PUG or getting kicked to make way for a nuker.

And in PvE, it is not just a matter of you completing the mission. It is you, completing the mission in the shortest time. Would a good PUG complete the mission with a mesmer, probably yes. But if replacing the mesmer with a nuker or a necro is more efficient and enables the group to complete it in a shorter amount of time, with fewer deaths, then the mesmer gets kicked.

Because of the reason above, and mesmers are already underpowered in PvE relative to the other classes, I would say go ahead with SoI + PvE skills for mesmers if it makes you complete the missions faster. It is just dumb to nerf yourself further by not using PvE skills when the other PvE stronger classes are already using them. It is up to you, you can also PvE without any armor if you like to nerf yourself.