Curse

Coloneh · Mar 16, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

rangers are by no means better interupters then mesmers, and removing pressure is not only interupts

1. rangers are better at interrupting. this is common knowledge. if you disagree provide a reason.

2. how are mesmers removing pressure other than interrupts?

JDRyder · Mar 16, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

1. rangers are better at interrupting. this is common knowledge. if you disagree provide a reason.

2. how are mesmers removing pressure other than interrupts?

1. rangers cant interupt 1 sec cast w/o spaming, unless you have a 0.1 reflex
a mesmer can have something like a 0.3-0.4 reflex "most ppl have a 0.2 and if their reflex is really good a 0.18, here test yourselfhttp://www.prelovac.com/vladimir/reflex-tester " before you say im wrong lets add the time up, for a ranger to get a 1sec cast w/o spaming. Lets say you use 0.1 secs to see and know what the skill being cast is, then 0.1 secs to think about what to use "Dshot of savage" then you will have a delay "changes with how far you are from target" and the cast time thats 0.5 secs thats cutting it as well and you HAVE to be next to the target to interupt it and he cant be using any blocking skills to get a 100% interupt, if you say "just daze him" then you not a good interupter you cant keep dazed on every thing, a good interupter scans targets "and looks at the battle" and does not just sit on 1 target. a mesmer on the other hand has 0.3 secs to see the skill, 0.3 to pick what the best skill to use is, and then just a 0.25 cast time, theres no delay and they cant block it "yes i know theres 1 ranger interupt that cant be blocked"

2. come on you dont even know what mesmer skills do you?

Blackout
Diversion
Energy Burn
Guilt
Energy Surge
Panic
Clumsiness
Ineptitude
Migraine
Spirit Shackles
Signet of Midnight
Soothing Images

i can make a longer list but, you may want take the time to read mesmer skills yourself

PS:

Mesmer intertups are also take a lot more pressure off seeing how the target will also get -2 energy degen, have 14+ energy taken away, or get blacked out "aka plower block" so on :P

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Blackout

Possibly...

Quote:

Diversion

No...because they have to cast the skill before this has any effect.

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Energy Burn

Monsters have infinite energy, so no.

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Guilt

Basically an interrupt, again energy doesn't matter.

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Energy Surge

Again, infinite energy.

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Panic

Yet again, infinite energy.

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Clumsiness

Delay getting hit by about .25 seconds, wow, hardcore.

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Ineptitude

Some plausibility, but blinding one monster half the time? No....sorry.

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Migraine

They will still cast spells unless they are interrupted, so this relies on interrupts.

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Spirit Shackles

Infinite Energy, will be dead before they run out.

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Signet of Midnight

Elite and can only blind one enemy...that's not that great.

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Soothing Images

This stops warriors from using adrenaline skills...that doesn't stop a whole lot of damage when they are hitting for 80 damage with a normal hit.

Quote:

i can make a longer list but, you may want take the time to read mesmer skills yourself

Please do because theres not a single skill there that can help reduce and significant damage.

DarkSpirit · Mar 16, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Monsters have infinite energy, so no.

That is a common misconception. Monsters, especially bosses, can have more energy than a human player but they dont have infinite energy. Casting spirit shackles on a monk boss would slow his casting down significantly after a certain time since the stupid AI continues to wand.

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

That is a common misconception. Monsters, especially bosses, can have more energy than a human player but they dont have infinite energy. Casting spirit shackles on a monk boss would slow his casting down significantly after a certain time since the stupid AI continues to wand.

No, that is not a common misconception. It is fact. The truth is that only EXTREME energy drain can drain a monster of all it's energy. Theres very little way that a Mesmer can completely drain more than one monster before they all die anyway. If you do not completely drain them, then you are doing NOTHING.

You tell yourself otherwise to make it feel like you are doing something, when in truth you are not.

Coloneh · Mar 16, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

That is a common misconception. Monsters, especially bosses, can have more energy than a human player but they dont have infinite energy. Casting spirit shackles on a monk boss would slow his casting down significantly after a certain time since the stupid AI continues to wand.

wrong. only things like visages + huge melee mobs can completely drain a PvE enemy. any normal e-denial is totally useless.

Tyla · Mar 16, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

1. rangers cant interupt 1 sec cast w/o spaming, unless you have a 0.1 reflex

*Cough* Recurve Bow.
1s casts...the only excuse of missing them (even at full range) is lag or bad reflexes.
Plus you can use a little technique any Ranger should use, is prediction.

Are you using a Longbow or Flatbow for interrupting or something?

Oh yeah, I'd like to point out BHA -> Epedemic is practically the strongest combo a Ranger can use in PvE.
I mean, HM enemies DO get HCT. Daze + Alot of people attacking (Minion Bomber anyone?) = I see you're not casting, mr. monster.

DarkSpirit · Mar 16, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

No, that is not a common misconception. It is fact. The truth is that only EXTREME energy drain can drain a monster of all it's energy.

Ok, you are not making sense here. INFINITE means it can NEVER EVER be drained. If it can be drained how can it be infinite?

Quote:

Theres very little way that a Mesmer can completely drain more than one monster before they all die anyway. If you do not completely drain them, then you are doing NOTHING.

Nobody is talking about mass AoE shutdown or mass AoE energy draining. We are talking about draining a SINGLE monster or a SINGLE boss. Certain monk bosses are really hard to kill without some shutdown skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

*Cough* Recurve Bow.
1s casts...the only excuse of missing them (even at full range) is lag or bad reflexes.

Or blocking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

wrong. only things like visages + huge melee mobs can completely drain a PvE enemy. any normal e-denial is totally useless.

No it is not and you are stating a fact that supports my point that monster energy is NOT infinite. The very fact that monster energy can be drained and affected by visages and famine, already proves that it not, mathematically speaking, infinite. Otherwise Famine would never trigger.

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Ok, you are not making sense here. INFINITE means it can NEVER EVER be drained. If it can be drained how can it be infinite?

So splitting hairs is your best rebuttal?

Quote:

Nobody is talking about mass AoE shutdown or mass AoE energy draining. We are talking about draining a SINGLE monster or a SINGLE boss. Certain monk bosses are really hard to kill without some shutdown skills.

EVERYBODY is talking about mass AoE shutdown. This is PvE.

So tell me...how are you going to drain the 50-60ish energy Monk, that has 5 energy regeneration? Oh, and you have to do it within about 5-6 seconds, because he will be dead within that time.

DarkSpirit · Mar 16, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

So splitting hairs is your best rebuttal?

That's the mathetical definition of infinite. How is that splitting hairs? Before you use the word, make sure you know what it means first.

Quote:

EVERYBODY is talking about mass AoE shutdown. This is PvE.

So tell me...how are you going to drain the 50-60ish energy Monk, that has 5 energy regeneration? Oh, and you have to do it within about 5-6 seconds, because he will be dead within that time.

I already told you how.

JDRyder · Mar 16, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

*Cough* Recurve Bow.
1s casts...the only excuse of missing them (even at full range) is lag or bad reflexes.
Plus you can use a little technique any Ranger should use, is prediction.

Are you using a Longbow or Flatbow for interrupting or something?

Oh yeah, I'd like to point out BHA -> Epedemic is practically the strongest combo a Ranger can use in PvE.
I mean, HM enemies DO get HCT. Daze + Alot of people attacking (Minion Bomber anyone?) = I see you're not casting, mr. monster.

i use all types short/recurve the most

about dazed, mesmer dont need it was the point, you can scan a lot better and you have more time, as for bosses, Migraine dose just as good of job

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

long quote

i tested this

when you use Energy Surge/Burn and if they take 0 damage then they have no energy

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

i use all types short/recurve the most

about dazed, mesmer dont need it was the point, you can scan a lot better and you have more time, as for bosses, Migraine dose just as good of job

i tested this

when you use Energy Surge/Burn and if they take 0 damage then they have no energy

Or they used [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] + [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill]. Try again.

And gratz on the second picture that you healed him with when he had RoF on him. Are you trying to prove a point?

JDRyder · Mar 16, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Or they used [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] + [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill]. Try again.

And gratz on the second picture that you healed him with when he had RoF on him. Are you trying to prove a point?

you dont know any thing about gw do you?

let me make the pic bigger

his rof was shamed, then i E burned him
full pic http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...yder/zzzz4.jpg

here i did more testing to make you happy i added in mind wrack

to 90 damage over his head is mind wrank going off
full pic http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...yder/zzzz6.jpg

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you dont know any thing about gw do you? Energy burn "and a lot of mesmer skills" bypass rof and other prots

I quit reading here. You just proved that you are in fact retarded.

Good day to you sir.

Edit...So you have THREE mesmers to drain one monks energy? wtf?

Edit2: You managed to drain a monk with 3 Mesmers zapping him...gratz? I mean really. 3 Rangers shooting him with [skill=text]Debilitating Shot[/skill] would drain his energy eventually. Does that somehow mean that it is practical?

JDRyder · Mar 16, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I quit reading here. You just proved that you are in fact retarded.

Good day to you sir.

Edit...So you have THREE mesmers to drain one monks energy? wtf?

Edit2: You managed to drain a monk with 3 Mesmers zapping him...gratz? I mean really. 3 Rangers shooting him with [skill=text]Debilitating Shot[/skill] would drain his energy eventually. Does that somehow mean that it is practical?

yea i retested and it does not bypass rof, i used 3 mesmers to drain energy faster. hes down to 0 after the 1st time we use surge/burn he does have 0 energy heres more testing for you

the 90 damage is from mind wrack, tryed to get him with a 0 damage e burn but he keeps dying
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...er/gw134-1.jpg full pic

also in pve "or pvp" you dont need him at 0 energy for the pics i do

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

yea i retested and it does not bypass rof but he does have 0 energy heres more testing for you

the 90 damage is from mind wrank, tryed to get him with a 0 damage e burn but he keeps dying
full pic

Stop please, for your own benefit.

Three mesmers can successfully drain a Warriors energy...which still doesn't stop most of his damage. That screenshot proves what?

And please for the love of all that is holy, STOP CALLING IT MIND WRANK.

Terraban · Mar 16, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

This is my last post in this thread. Really it is pointless, the OP got his answer pages ago, and most of the other people posting here have very little knowledge about the game.

Peace out.

MasterSasori · Mar 16, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

1. rangers are better at interrupting. this is common knowledge. if you disagree provide a reason.

Ranger and Mesmer interrupts can be pretty different.

Ranger interrupts tend to be a bit slower (the arrow has to fly through the air), can be dodged/blocked (except [skill]magebane shot[/skill]), can interrupt non-spells, don't do energy gains, cause longer recharge.

Mesmer interrupts are near instant, can't be blocked or dodged, mostly spell interrupts, plenty of energy manipulation, typically longer recharge.

I would prefer a mesmer to interrupt if the target is under blocking effects, exceptional kiter.

Back to the topic:

Both rit and mesmer can be challenging and fun to play. Rits are one of the most versatile and flexible classes in all of GW and playing an effective mesmer can be very challenging. My advice is to play both

Buns United · Mar 16, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Has this topic really become Mesmer>Rit and vice versa topic? The orignal question was which of the two was better/more fun/more versatile in PVE. Then please do stick to PvE, Energy denial isn't going to help your team out much (apart from ancestor's/symphatetic visage IMO) because PvE mobs are going to be dead/should be dead by the time they reach low energy anyway!

About shutdown, a dead mob can't cast => can't kill ya. Damage>shutdown pve wise, and even if you really do need some shutdown, mesmer/ranger heroes are probably your best alternative. In hard mode you'll have faster casting mobs, meaning you'll either 'get better' at blindly interrupting (bad thing) or you'll be useless disruption-wise.

Imo, take a rit, not only are there quite a few nice farming builds with them around, also are they very useful (even their primary attrib; Spawning Power = increased weapon spell duration -> longer Great Dwarven Weapon) in (party wide) support.
They do more damage, that's a given, with splinter weapon on your physhical attackers, you'll see dead mobs in no time.

Baseline is: IMO take a rit, and for everyone else; get back on topic or make a new/use the search button for some old thread to revive with flame wars.

*PS, sorry but I didn't bother reading through all the pages, seemed kinda pointless.*

DarkSpirit · Mar 17, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Why when you could use [skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill]?

And since we are talking about PvE mesmers...

Technobabble > [skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill]

I dont even need to waste an elite slot and I can already achieve AoE daze.

Add that to the fact that:

1) It cant be blocked or dodged

2) I can cast this right through a wall. I dont need line of sight.

3) It is a spell, so the Ranger's expertise would not lower its 15e.

4) It has 1 second activation time, so mesmer FC would be useful.