Curse

DarkSpirit · Mar 14, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Or are you guys strong believers in the "FC Nuker" "FC SS" "FC Healer"? Yeah...the Mesmer owns, he can imitate another profession and not be as effective as them at their job...woot.

Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare different professions, why not compare a monk against a warrior or a nuker? Each of them have their advantages and disadvantages.

A mesmer is better in certain things but a mesmer can't be as good as a necro in certain things, so what? Can a warrior or nuker heal as a well as a monk? Can a monk kill faster than a nuker?

I see no point in this little exercise.

Phe Belladona · Mar 14, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

while in normal mode it is perfectly true to say everything a mesmer can do is outdone by whatever, in hard mode i think the mesmer gets useful especially in some areas where you dont have 8 ppl to outdamage the 2 monks a few diversions can break mobs. also its armour ignoring damage becomes more useful.

mesmers best prof in game and the idea of making a pure countermage is prolly the best idea anet had. also excellent outfits.

i have 2 mesmers and love playing mesmer, its a game and you might not get a lot of high end pve pugs as one but it depends if you care about that.. i dont.

mesmering is its own reward ^^

upier · Mar 14, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

do you really need the energy?

[skill]Power Spike[/skill]
By looking clearly at it - you can see it's not an adrenaline skill nor a signet.
So yes, you do need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

Yes. But IMO Clumsiness is only half-buffed. I think the REAL update is coming...

It was nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

while in normal mode it is perfectly true to say everything a mesmer can do is outdone by whatever, in hard mode i think the mesmer gets useful especially in some areas where you dont have 8 ppl to outdamage the 2 monks a few diversions can break mobs. also its armour ignoring damage becomes more useful.

mesmers best prof in game and the idea of making a pure countermage is prolly the best idea anet had. also excellent outfits.

i have 2 mesmers and love playing mesmer, its a game and you might not get a lot of high end pve pugs as one but it depends if you care about that.. i dont.

mesmering is its own reward ^^

The problem is that the AI is still as dumb as ever - so pure force will still win.
My guildy was having issues vanquishing Easter Frontier (it was the last area he needed for his title). He plays a warrior - so I loaded up my warrior - took two monk heroes - and just kept on whacking the two monk teams. Body blocking, luring and shitty builds on the foes all contribute to the fact that advanced techniques that the mesmer has to offer aren't even needed.
"Merkle like plan B. Merkle like smash! SMASH!" wins PvE still.

JDRyder · Mar 14, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

[skill]Power Spike[/skill]
By looking clearly at it - you can see it's not an adrenaline skill nor a signet.
So yes, you do need it.

its only a 10e spell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

advanced techniques that the mesmer has to offer aren't even needed.

same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something

Terraban · Mar 14, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare different professions, why not compare a monk against a warrior or a nuker? Each of them have their advantages and disadvantages.

A mesmer is better in certain things but a mesmer can't be as good as a necro in certain things, so what? Can a warrior or nuker heal as a well as a monk? Can a monk kill faster than a nuker?

I see no point in this little exercise.

The point is the "FC ______" tries to imitate another profession, but doesn't do it as good as the normal profession.

Saying that a Warrior can't heal as good as a Monk is EXACTLY my point, thanks for proving it. A Warrior CAN'T heal as good as a Monk, just like a "FC Nuker" can't "nuke" as good as an Elementalist.

Comparing a "FC Nuker" to an Elementalist is not comparing apples to oranges. It is more like comparing a normal person to a retard.

A Mesmer can't be as good as anything in any given PvE situation. The things that a Mesmer excels at are moot in PvE, things such as caster shutdown and edenial.

Tyla · Mar 14, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

its only a 10e spell?

It's 5e.

Quote:

same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something

Agreed.
Glob of Ectospasm's FoW runs with a full team of all professions ftw.

But in all honesty, Mesmer's uses are weak in PvE.

upier · Mar 14, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

its only a 10e spell?

The point is that it costs energy.
In because of that - unlimited energy of SR > faster cast spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something

The difference is that because of the mesmers advanced techniques - his range in what works best in PvE (damage, damage, damage) is limited.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not as good.

DarkSpirit · Mar 14, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

The point is the "FC ______" tries to imitate another profession, but doesn't do it as good as the normal profession.

Saying that a Warrior can't heal as good as a Monk is EXACTLY my point, thanks for proving it. A Warrior CAN'T heal as good as a Monk, just like a "FC Nuker" can't "nuke" as good as an Elementalist.

Comparing a "FC Nuker" to an Elementalist is not comparing apples to oranges. It is more like comparing a normal person to a retard.

A Mesmer can't be as good as anything in any given PvE situation. The things that a Mesmer excels at are moot in PvE, things such as caster shutdown and edenial.

Maybe you are just not thinking of all the possibilities. SoI brings ALL attribute lines to 16, besides granting level 11 rank (+1 above maxed possible rank) PvE skills.

The keyword here is synergy across attributes and professions. Just looking at the fire Ele, a fire Ele can have all the nice fire skills in his bar and even max energy storage, but what if he wants to also include Earth, Air, and Water skills in his skill bars and maintain ALL of them at level 16? No way.

What if the SF ele wants to blind his foes and offer more protection? You can use Steam along with SF, but wait, Steam is a water spell. At level 16 water, I can blind for 10 seconds, offer 73 cold damage using Steam. SoI allows maxed SF, maxed water, with only 1 superior rune with maxed fast casting. Similary for Enervating Charge and Glowstone or Stoning. I can have 16 seconds of weakness, gain 10 energy, knock down, and 109 earth + 56 earth + 52 lightning damage.

I have not even looked at synergizing with any rank 11 PvE skills and level 16 mesmer skills yet. Also spells in primary attributes like Soul Reaping, Energy Storage, Spawning Power, Divine Favor, Mysticism can't be used by secondary classes at level 16 (only level 0), but an SoI mesmer is unique.

Coloneh · Mar 14, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

alright, im getting bored of repeating the same things over and over, so ill just say this: mesmers have no advantage over other primary professions in PvE.

now, if you have any disagreement with this, reply with some info that makes sense.

"u dnt g3t interuptd" is not a post that makes sense. there are not enough interrupts in PvE for that to be a consideration.

Terraban · Mar 14, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Maybe you are just not thinking of all the possibilities. SoI brings ALL attribute liness to 16, besides granting level 11 rank (+1 above maxed possible rank) PvE skills.

The keyword here is synergy across attributes and professions. Just looking at the fire Ele, a fire Ele can have all the nice fire skills in his bar and even max energy storage, but what if he wants to also include Earth, Air, and Water skills in his skill bars and maintain ALL of them at level 16? No way.

What if the SF ele wants to blind his foes and offer more protection? You can use Steam along with SF, but wait, Steam is a water spell. At level 16 water, I can blind for 10 seconds, offer 73 cold damage using Steam. SoI allows maxed SF, maxed water, with only 1 superior rune with maxed fast casting. Similary for Enervating Charge and Glowstone or Stoning. I can have 16 seconds of weakness, gain 10 energy, knock down, and 109 earth + 56 earth + 52 lightning damage.

I have not even looked at synergizing with any rank 11 PvE skills and level 16 mesmer skills yet.

I'm sorry, but your examples with single target spells that have slight synergies are /fail.

I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills?

Not to mention that your Mesmer doesn't have an elite.

DarkSpirit · Mar 15, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I'm sorry, but your examples with single target spells that have slight synergies are /fail.

I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills?

Not to mention that your Mesmer doesn't have an elite.

Actually people do use Steam. Read this:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post36434 01

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post34588 56

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post34588 40

And I seem to recall Glowstone and Enervating Charge being in recommended builds in pvxwiki. Apparently some people do find them useful enough, even if you dont.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...de_Terrafarmer

Variants
Ebon Hawk/Enervating Charge + Glowstone and/or Stoning

Mesmers can have 2 elites through Arcane Mimicry but I agree that Arcane Mimicry sucks right now. It costs too much energy to last for such a short time with too high a recharge. ANet should make it scale with Fast Casting. But there are many other non-elite spells that can cause burning.

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Actually people do use Steam. Read this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post36434 01
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post34588 56
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...#post34588 40

A SF build with Steam thrown in is in no way related to a build that is built around Steam.

Quote:

And I seem to recall Glowstone and Enervating Charge being in recommended builds in pvxwiki. Apparently some people do find them useful enough, even if you dont.

Most people know that PvXWiki is /fail, even if you don't.

Quote:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...de_Terrafarmer

Variants
Ebon Hawk/Enervating Charge + Glowstone and/or Stoning

Keyword...FARMER. There is also no reason at all for the Enervating Charge + Glowstone combination....

DarkSpirit · Mar 15, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

A SF build with Steam thrown in is in no way related to a build that is built around Steam.

Uh...Have you forgotton that we are talking about a SoI build?

Quote:

Keyword...FARMER. There is also no reason at all for the Enervating Charge + Glowstone combination....

So farming is suddenly not part of PvE anymore?

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Uh...Have you forgotton that we are talking about a SoI build?

So farming is suddenly not part of PvE anymore?

I rest my case.

DarkSpirit · Mar 15, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I rest my case.

I rest mine:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...98#post3757898

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I rest mine:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...98#post3757898

Attempt? Yes.
Sense? No.

I never meant farming was bad.

I meant that you thinking SOI is some kind of uber farming skill shows that you might be a bit retarded.

DarkSpirit · Mar 15, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I meant that you thinking SOI is some kind of uber farming skill shows that you might be a bit retarded.

Who was talking about farming? You! I was talking about SoI.

You said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills?

And I showed you builds that use them. Even if one of them happen to be a recommended farming build that uses Glowstone+Enervating Charge, none of the builds I showed you are SoI builds. I am just showing you that many people DO use these skills (i.e. Steam+Burning and Enervating Charge+Glowstone/Stoning)

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Who was talking about farming? You! I was talking about SoI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...de_Terrafarmer

Did you even read the link that you sent?

You sent a farming build as proof that SoI is good because of a skill combination.

JDRyder · Mar 15, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The point is that it costs energy.
In because of that - unlimited energy of SR > faster cast spells.

The difference is that because of the mesmers advanced techniques - his range in what works best in PvE (damage, damage, damage) is limited.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not as good.

for energy if you can cast all you skills non stop and never need more energy to cast, SR becomes useless. For mesmers you dont spam skills, it reqs that you know how to play your bar

and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out, and im sure things will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team.

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

for energy if you can cast all you skills non stop and never need more energy to cast, SR becomes useless. For mesmers you dont spam skills, it reqs that you know how to play your bar

and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out and im sure thing will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team

How is the Mesmer taking pressure off the team? Interrupts?

Guess what....ANY profession can do that, and Rangers can even do it BETTER. Rangers can use any interrupt skill that a Mesmer can use, + their own interrupts.