Curse

upier · Mar 07, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

2 things 1 go back look at what i said in the build to start with and with diversion ur still disabling a random skill for the most part or not at all if they dont cast or have a monk with hex remove, not saying Diversion is bad <3 it for pvp but i find it lacking use in PVE

Yeah of course Diversion will disable a random skill if they activate through it.
But a your build requires that Larceny steals a USABLE spell. That's the difference. And that's where the odds are against you.

Coloneh · Mar 07, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

I still maintain that mesmers are bad in PvE, and no one has provided any real evidence to the contrary.

Shuuda · Mar 07, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

I still maintain that mesmers are bad in PvE, and no one has provided any real evidence to the contrary.

I agree for the most part, I love Mesmers, but it's clear that they were made to be more used in PvP. My adivce, don't make a Mesmer unless you intend to PvP with one, or be a shallow fashion queen like most I see.

kainmodious · Mar 09, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

wow ok thanks guys i think i will make me a rit

and thanks for the good argument for and against both toons but i think ill stick with a mes for pvp and rit for pve

Thanks Again

Kainmodious

Luminarus · Mar 09, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Mesmers lack usefulness in pve because in pve you want to kill them faster, and mesmers generally dont help that much with that.

The only time I ever take a mesmer in pve is gwen with powerblock in areas with bitchy healers that die easily when they cant do jack.

Mesmers e-denial: Useless in HM (unlimited energy), not worth removing energy from a dead foe.
Interupts: "Rangers do it better"
AoE Damage: Necros/Eles do it better
Degen: Why waste you're time?

The only other way i can imagine them working is with CoP spike, however the saddest part of this, is you can run 8 mo/me's for insane survival and still cop spike

NOTE: All from a pve perspective.

@OP

How did you reach these two classes? Rits have nearly been nerfed out of the game, splinter is basically the limit of its usefulness (I know resto, but n/rts are better at that.)

And for pve, mesmers are pretty useless two.

EDIT: There was a several hour period where mesmers were good in pve, because they could steal monster skills with simple theivery, thats gone now though

JDRyder · Mar 09, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

mesmers skill help a lot when things start going wrong and you need to shut something down, i never go w/o a mesmer in pve when i H/H

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

NOTE: All from a pve perspective.

@OP

How did you reach these two classes? Rits have nearly been nerfed out of the game, splinter is basically the limit of its usefulness (I know resto, but n/rts are better at that.)

And for pve, mesmers are pretty useless two.

EDIT: There was a several hour period where mesmers were good in pve, because they could steal monster skills with simple theivery, thats gone now though

[skill]Ancestor's Rage[/skill]

Also a rit can just pack Offering of Spirit and almost never worry about energy, a necro requires a good solid spec into SR which means the Restoration and Chanelling is weaker. They also need things to die to get energy

Coloneh · Mar 09, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Also a rit can just pack Offering of Spirit and almost never worry about energy, a necro requires a good solid spec into SR which means the Restoration and Chanelling is weaker. They also need things to die to get energy

if things arent dying people are obviously sync-dancing so there is no reason to need energy. and imo a 3-attribute split is usually way more beneficial to builds because you onlu lose 1-2 points off of any attribute

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Break points

Lord Sojar · Mar 09, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

rangers do it better
rangers do it better
necros do it better
necros do it better
necros, rangers, and even eles do it better

im not saying mesmers skills are bad. im saying the profession as a primary is bad. virtually no mesmer skills require a heavy investment to use efectively, and fast casting is USELESS espically when compared to sould reaping or energy storage.

Alright. That's it. You sir have engaged Rahja the Thief in combat. I sir, never lose. You sir, have lost. Prepare thyself.

Idiocy never came so thick. For you to even think, for one second, that fast casting is useless, you are out of your mind.

Diversion has a 3 second cast time. If you take a N/Me with said spell, and they cast it, a ranger (as you stated, they are amazing at interrupting) will simply interrupt that said 3 second cast unless they are a blind, deaf, dumb twit who has a ping over 900 constantly.

Take a Mesmer primary to do the same. They will cast that spell in ~1.5 seconds. That is much harder to interrupt then a 3 second dismally slow, pathetic attempt.

Take the following into account as well.

Power Leak = Interrupt + Energy loss. Devastating on any monk provided their glyph lesser wasn't being used.

Diversion- Disables a skill for an addition ONE MINUTE. Many skills are reliant of frequent casting. Case in point, Restore Condition. If it gets diverted, your team just lost their primary (in many cases only viable) condition removal.

Blurred Vision- Remove this skill for a full minute, giving your frontline time to spike down key targets or to apply pressure to enemy mid/backline.

Word of Healing- Remove primary healing skill, crippling their party's power heal, and removing any threat of them attempting to push forward. If anything, you signal a retreat from the opposing team.

Blinding Flash/Blinding Surge- Get rid of this skill for a full min not only allows your frontline to wreak uncontrolled havoc on the other team, but relieves 70% of the needed condition removals from your monks, saving them untold amounts of energy and allowing them a full minute to save energy.

Diversion/Shame- Divert the other teams mesmer's key shutdown, saving your monks and eles the headaches I have listed above.

Oh, and as far as shame goes... shame on spike

Can a ranger interrupt infuse health without fail? No, they can't. Can shame? Yes, it can. Oh, and losing 13 energy on top of 10 from the infuse on top of infuse failing, on top of your spike target dying = A very sad emo monk on the other team and another used rez sig. Shame > Rangers.

You sir, need to /uninstall the game. Thanks for playing, have a lovely evening.

Ah yes... in PvE.

Well let's see here.

I can take a mesmer, go quickly get a few key PvE only spells from some mundane quests and Put on an illusion mask with a superior rune (only in pve... lol) of illusion magic.

Then I cast this really cool skill, I think it is called Signet of Illusions. Oh look, my PvE spells are now max....oh wait, actually 1 rank above max.

What do you have to do to match this? Grind your little ass off until it bleeds. Yeh, Mesmer > you. Bye now.

upier · Mar 09, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Ah yes... in PvE.

Well let's see here.

I can take a mesmer, go quickly get a few key PvE only spells from some mundane quests and Put on an illusion mask with a superior rune (only in pve... lol) of illusion magic.

Then I cast this really cool skill, I think it is called Signet of Illusions. Oh look, my PvE spells are now max....oh wait, actually 1 rank above max.

What do you have to do to match this? Grind your little ass off until it bleeds. Yeh, Mesmer > you. Bye now.

Ahh that WAS funny!
How about IF that special someone DOES grind their ass off until it bleeds?
And then uses it's elite for something that is like ... useful?
Imagine a maxed out necro with insane energy returns from SR - your PvE skills AND SS? Or maybe you can use other skills instead of just spells?
Because it's not like people out there actually DO grind their ass off for the titles, right?
They would never!11
Or to quote you:
Bye now.

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

The thing with SR is that it requires you to kill things, aka not suck. Most GW players suck so they don't know how strong SR is which is why they think eles are the best killers in the game

Of course for anyone that knows anything about the mechanics behind the game then it's completely different

Lord Sojar · Mar 09, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Ahh that WAS funny!
How about IF that special someone DOES grind their ass off until it bleeds?
And then uses it's elite for something that is like ... useful?
Imagine a maxed out necro with insane energy returns from SR - your PvE skills AND SS? Or maybe you can use other skills instead of just spells?
Because it's not like people out there actually DO grind their ass off for the titles, right?
They would never!11
Or to quote you:
Bye now.

What a waste of time.

That refers to you, PvE, and title grind.

upier · Mar 09, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

What a waste of time.

That refers to you, PvE, and title grind.

We could be out there saving the environment, ending world hunger or helping old women across the street.
Yet we choose to play a game.

Watch out - I see some rocks being thrown right back at you!

It's bull to build the whole "AMAGAD!1!! The mesmer is teh pwn!11!" on the sole idea that everyone is to lazy to max out a title. Because people do max out the titles - and it doesn't matter if you, I or who knows who finds them a waste of time - and when they do that, they are once again better.
Besides I wouldn't exactly consider the fact that a classes most important skills are spells that ARE available to ALL who can use them nearly as good while the other classes have the ability to enrich the builds with BETTER skills at the same time as a real selling point.
PvE skills didn't improve the position of the mesmer.
They improved the position of all classes. But the ranking of those classes in terms of what works and what doesn't - hasn't changed much.

Qdq Swi · Mar 09, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Alright. That's it. You sir have engaged Rahja the Thief in combat. I sir, never lose. You sir, have lost. Prepare thyself.

Idiocy never came so thick. For you to even think, for one second, that fast casting is useless, you are out of your mind.

Diversion has a 3 second cast time. If you take a N/Me with said spell, and they cast it, a ranger (as you stated, they are amazing at interrupting) will simply interrupt that said 3 second cast unless they are a blind, deaf, dumb twit who has a ping over 900 constantly.

Take a Mesmer primary to do the same. They will cast that spell in ~1.5 seconds. That is much harder to interrupt then a 3 second dismally slow, pathetic attempt.

Take the following into account as well.

Power Leak = Interrupt + Energy loss. Devastating on any monk provided their glyph lesser wasn't being used.

Diversion- Disables a skill for an addition ONE MINUTE. Many skills are reliant of frequent casting. Case in point, Restore Condition. If it gets diverted, your team just lost their primary (in many cases only viable) condition removal.

Blurred Vision- Remove this skill for a full minute, giving your frontline time to spike down key targets or to apply pressure to enemy mid/backline.

Word of Healing- Remove primary healing skill, crippling their party's power heal, and removing any threat of them attempting to push forward. If anything, you signal a retreat from the opposing team.

Blinding Flash/Blinding Surge- Get rid of this skill for a full min not only allows your frontline to wreak uncontrolled havoc on the other team, but relieves 70% of the needed condition removals from your monks, saving them untold amounts of energy and allowing them a full minute to save energy.

Diversion/Shame- Divert the other teams mesmer's key shutdown, saving your monks and eles the headaches I have listed above.

Oh, and as far as shame goes... shame on spike

Can a ranger interrupt infuse health without fail? No, they can't. Can shame? Yes, it can. Oh, and losing 13 energy on top of 10 from the infuse on top of infuse failing, on top of your spike target dying = A very sad emo monk on the other team and another used rez sig. Shame > Rangers.

You sir, need to /uninstall the game. Thanks for playing, have a lovely evening.

Ah yes... in PvE.

Well let's see here.

I can take a mesmer, go quickly get a few key PvE only spells from some mundane quests and Put on an illusion mask with a superior rune (only in pve... lol) of illusion magic.

Then I cast this really cool skill, I think it is called Signet of Illusions. Oh look, my PvE spells are now max....oh wait, actually 1 rank above max.

What do you have to do to match this? Grind your little ass off until it bleeds. Yeh, Mesmer > you. Bye now.

Lol... I like you... much fun.. it was actually worth reading O.O. Might just make me a pve mesmer when I get a new slot.. Or.. I could just keep one for PvP.. where they really shine ;p.

Btw.. I love the roundabout/ sarcastic way you insult people... No1s pissed off Coloneh and lived to tell the tale (ive tried ='S)... so gl to u ;p.

Btw.. Mesmers Rox ;p.. and i havnt even used em in pve yet >_>.

Edit : Just bought 2 new char slots.. And im lvling my pve mes through factions.. might try got r3 survivor too ;p.

upier · Mar 09, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Btw.. Mesmers Rox ;p.. and i havnt even used em in pve yet >_>.

Ohh that's just beyond funny!
Thanks!

Coloneh · Mar 10, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

off topic crap about PvP that everyone already knew and dosnt care about...

blah blah blah.....

Ah yes... in PvE.

Well let's see here.

I can take a mesmer, go quickly get a few key PvE only spells from some mundane quests and Put on an illusion mask with a superior rune (only in pve... lol) of illusion magic.

Then I cast this really cool skill, I think it is called Signet of Illusions. Oh look, my PvE spells are now max....oh wait, actually 1 rank above max.

What do you have to do to match this? Grind your little ass off until it bleeds. Yeh, Mesmer > you. Bye now.

ooh,, super duper you have 4 skills. i hope that works out well for you.

blurmedia · Mar 10, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Imo, in PvE, rits are way better than mesmers. Your 3 PvE skills with SoI just won't do enough to overcome a rit with a build that actually do something.
But then again I don't really know what PvE skills most use but I'd guess something like dual norn shouts + something else (like P Inv. great dwarf weapon or vanguard wards.)
Of course if you refuse to grind these titles but still want to reap benefits of it you could run a SoI mesmer but overall (IN PVE) rits are just so much better.

In PvP it's another story. Mesmers play a big role in shutdown but rits primarily run flags in GvG or play stupid gimmicks. And Mo/E or E/Mo WoH runners seem to be more popular now anyway :\

So in my opinion you should make a rit. You could always just make a PvP mesmer if you want to do pvp

cgruber · Mar 12, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Since were exclusively talking PVE, welcome to my mesmer's destructive force.

16 Illusion, 13 Fast Casting

Signet of Illusions
Arcane Echo
Summon Ebon Vanguard Sin
Ebon Vanguard Ward
Pain Inverter
Barbs
Mark of Pain
Auspious Incantation

That and 1 MM can sleep-walk through HM. I also have a Rit which is fun too but I play it less and when I do I usually go Volley + Splinter + Spirits Strength and do crowd control.

noneedforclevernames · Mar 12, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

still waiting on someone to throw out a mesmer build that does something better than any other profession... haven't seen one since 2005....

i won't hold my breath

wana stop posting? all you are doing is showing everyone how much you lack knowledge of the game.
Good players generally do not give their builds out BECAUSE they do not want them getting nerfed. That is why you arn't seeing any good Mesmer builds. I have made a few great Mesmer builds for PVE, and there are plenty of great PVP Mesmer builds that are open to the public...

BTW, I have played both and I find Mesmer to be more fun.