Curse

GaaaaaH · Apr 23, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

To use as a cancel stance. When in frenzy, and you dont want to take double damage (being hit), cast rus, or another running stance to stop double damage (last stance cancels the first cast)

the savage nornbear · Apr 23, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

isnt that what he said?

at snaek

AOTT · Apr 23, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I'm.. not really sure what he said. It was kinda hard to TRANSLATE.

Aneres · Apr 23, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

I was under the impression that the point of a run stance was to catch someone. [rush] requires you to gain enough adrenaline to use it, which implies either 1. hitting something (uh, running away from you) or 2. being hit over and over. I can understand canceling out Frenzy with another stance, but why use FRENZY of all the IAS in the game?

It makes more sense to me to use [Flail] and [sprint] so you can catch your opponent, THEN wail on them... or flurry... or really ANYTHING that doesn't cause you to take double damage?

I personally prefer Flail and Sprint over Rush/Frenzy. ^_^

Lykan · Apr 23, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

People attack me ALL THE TIME in PvP.

Thats why you take [rush], use [frenzy] and then when ppl attack you you use [rush] to cancel it. Simple really.

Div · Apr 23, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Flail owns in PvE.

Frenzy is great in GvG because teams don't know how/when to punish it, and by the time they do you'll have used rush already. Unless your name is Famous Warrior or Chop Chop The Panda, in which case keep frenzying and getting spiked out

shru · Apr 23, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

To sum it all up for those of you who can't seem to grasp the logic even after all these explanations...
PvE=[flail]
PvP=[frenzy]+[rush]
Don't try to confuse yourself by trying to understand it, just accept it as truth and do it. I'm not even going to provide exceptions (there are a few) as they seem to make things too complicated for you guys...

Chthon · Apr 23, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

PvP's been covered. Frenzy for 50% increased damage; Rush for when people realize you're in frenzy and try to punish you for it. Don't think there's anything I can add.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

So, what do I do about PvE then?

The popular choice around here is Enraged Charge + Flail.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan. 3 reasons:
1. Monsters kite. Not a lot, but enough to be annoying if you're self-snared.
2. Monsters die. And then you have to switch targets. Unless you got the sort of nice bunched up mob that AoE should have already wiped out, you're sometimes going to find yourself having to move a non-trivial distance across the field to reach your next target and hit it a couple times so you can keep SY up. Having a leftover flail still up pretty much guarantees SY is going to go down before you reach your next target, and enraging charge doesn't recharge fast enough to clear flail reliably.
3. Dilutes your adrenaline. Not a ton, but losing that 1 strike every 13 sec puts a noticeable kink in your skill chain.

I tend to favor drunken master. Even though the IAS isn't as good as Flail and the IMS isn't as good as Enraged, they're passable enough and you get rid ofthe self-snare that you have on Flail. I think it boils down to which is more important to you: doing every bit of damage you can, or maintaining SY with as few breaks as possible.
I might also add that DM compresses your IAS and IMS into one skill, so you have one more space on your bar to use for something else.
Finally, in some situations, DM is actually going to get you higher DPS. If you have to cross the field a lot to acquire new targets (for instance: fighting magma blisters), you're going to end up getting in enough swings in the time DM saves off your travel time as compared to Flail to more than make up for the lower attack speed.

horseradish · Apr 23, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

[drunken master] in PvE. It's especially good if you're an alcoholic.

If you don't have EotN, then [Flail] will do.

No Nightfall? [frenzy] + [rush] and practice cancel stancing....or stance canceling....whatever.

Racthoh · Apr 23, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

PvE=[flail]
PvP=[frenzy]+[rush]

PvP axe and sword = [Frenzy] + [Rush]
PvP hammer = [Flail] + [Rush] + [Enraging Charge]

RiceCream · Apr 23, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

just rephrasing everything like everyone else is doing (maybe all the cool kids are doing it too...

)
lets make this all pre- April 17 '08 nefs to drive the point in better

take your standard shock axe bar
[Bull's Strike][Shock][Eviscerate][Body Blow][Disrupting Chop][Frenzy][Rush][Resurrection Signet]

Now, build up your adrenaline (you dont need to be at an IMS stance to catch your opponents, [Bull's Strike] is there for reasons, and some people dont know what kiting is). you've got your 8 adrenaline, spike is called, you [Eviscerate] and pop [Frenzy]. suddenly, your hit with [Lightning Orb] omg! cracked armor AND your in [Frenzy] BIG DAMAGE! (damn nerfs...). your being spiked (cause wars in frenzy are fun to hit) pop rush to save your butt. [Rush] is the perfect cancel stance for the reasons that you will always have adrenaline and is always recharged.

it is not as much used to catch the opponent. but, due to its long duration, typically you will still be rushed (or have refreshed it) by the time the next spike is called. [beat me if im mistaken..im a monk]

Racthoh · Apr 23, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceCream

[Rush] is the perfect cancel stance for the reasons that you will always have adrenaline and is always recharged.

I wouldn't say always. Adrenaline skill blocked/misses means the pool is one strike short. A Blackout in Frenzy could also be fatal if the warrior has tunnel vision and didn't see it coming in time to hit Rush.

Quote:

it is not as much used to catch the opponent. but, due to its long duration, typically you will still be rushed (or have refreshed it) by the time the next spike is called. [beat me if im mistaken..im a monk]

Rush allows you to Frenzy more often since building 4 adrenaline is faster than waiting for Sprint to recharge. Of course the really good warriors will Frenzy even if the cancel stance isn't available.

zling · Apr 23, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

quite teh contrary...
do u play gvg?
or even obs them?

i mean theres a whole class dedicated to attackin teh wars (bsurge)
and counter-spikes on a frenzy war is quite a viable tactic
especially if they're overextended from their monks

frenzy+rush > flail+sprint

for one...its lower recharge and more readily available

if u bring anything else...

"okie, spike this target on 3..."
"wait, wait, wait! my ias isnt ready!!!"

...will happen

actually you're quite the contrary, BSurge eles are pretty dead now after the BSurge nerf. and even before that the meta was already shifting away from Blind Bots. and by the way, a Blind Bot isnt really "attacking" the warrior, it's shutting it down. there's a difference. yes BSurge and perhaps an Orb does some damage while the warrior is under frenzy but its not constant damage and it's not paired with anything, so it wont do jack to the warrior by itself. and if the warrior is targeted than the monks just have an easy time protting as warriors arent squishies, they dont die as fast due to superior armor...

Pyro maniac · Apr 23, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

actually you're quite the contrary, BSurge eles are pretty dead now after the BSurge nerf. and even before that the meta was already shifting away from Blind Bots. and by the way, a Blind Bot isnt really "attacking" the warrior, it's shutting it down. there's a difference. yes BSurge and perhaps an Orb does some damage while the warrior is under frenzy but its not constant damage and it's not paired with anything, so it wont do jack to the warrior by itself. and if the warrior is targeted than the monks just have an easy time protting as warriors arent squishies, they dont die as fast due to superior armor...

linebacking ftw atm ..

Tyla · Apr 23, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

snip

A - B-Surge is practically dead.
B - It's dedicated to shutting down the Warrior, not dealing damage to the Warrior.

Anyway, they're used because:
In PvP, there are no downsides if the other team know what they're doing (Hunting down squishies), and Rush is a good IMS (Increased Movement Speed) stance to cancel it aswell.

In PvE, there are no downsides to Flail.

But either way, Frenzy is still the best IAS for me.

shru · Apr 23, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

PvP axe and sword = [Frenzy] + [Rush]
PvP hammer = [Flail] + [Rush] + [Enraging Charge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shru

I'm not even going to provide exceptions (there are a few) as they seem to make things too complicated for you guys...

i understand that there are exceptions, but getting into them any deeper is causing a few people to become lost. My thought was the simpler you make it, the more likely those people will understand it.
(yes, I am talking down to them, but if they can't get that frenzy is a good PvP skill, there realy isn't much hope for them.)

Wnx Mreslayer · Apr 23, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

ive been running on the rush frenzy evis shock build for a month in PvE now and it works absolutely fine and you shouldnt even need healing most of the time... although you will need monk support from time to time xD

XDeadboltX · Apr 23, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

[protective spirit] and [frenzy] for pve if your really worried?

AOTT · Apr 23, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by XDeadboltX

[protective spirit] and [frenzy] for pve if your really worried?

lol.
One of my old guildmates looked at that possibility... it's not very effective.
I am in agreement with the Flail in PvE thing.

I understand the logic of frenzy for PvP; I don't like it and I think it speaks to the strange psychology of PvP, but I guess it's true enough that it's gained acceptance.

I wanted to bring up [Berserker Stance] and [Tiger Stance]. How about those two? Would those work for PvP, or rather why are they inferior to Frenzy?

Bowstring Badass · Apr 23, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

What's the deal with [rush] and [frenzy]. Why do so many of you put those in your bars.

I'm getting tired of people flaming me and saying I'm stupid when they obviously support using skills that *I* find inferior.

Seriously. Explain this logic. If you're just going to post saying "you're a dumbass" or something then don't bother posting because for once I'm asking for a REASON.

This post is so full of FAIL.

How is [[rush] and [[frenzy] inferior they are the 2 skills stapled to every warriors bar for 1 reason (cept for hammer in that case [[flail]) they are best at what they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

I wanted to bring up [Berserker Stance] and [Tiger Stance]. How about those two? Would those work for PvP, or rather why are they inferior to Frenzy?

They are inferior because berserker stance ends with a skill and tiger stance ends if you miss. You are more then likely to hit attack skills with frenzy up and it doesn't end when you miss because you were blinded for 2 seconds.

[[Tiger Stance] is mainly used on sins because it has no downside if you miss anyway your screwed till your combo recharges and it usually takes 20 seconds if you are using [[Tiger Stance]