Curse

Dr Strangelove · Apr 16, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Well, why would they let you use Frenzy? A warrior using Frenzy is an a lot more softer target than a spell caster.

Well, can't they just wait till you cancel Frenzy and then stop attacking you?

Not that much softer, since warriors start with 96 AL. It's also not as if they can instantly bring all their damage against you, and instantly know when you use frenzy. Melee characters have to get in range of you, casters have to retarget and cast new spells. You'd have a point if frenzy was permanent, but since you can cancel it at will, it's just not worth targeting warriors unless a) you're a spike team or b) you want to prevent frenzy to give your own monks a break.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 16, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Well, why would they let you use Frenzy? A warrior using Frenzy is an a lot more softer target than a spell caster.

Well, can't they just wait till you cancel Frenzy and then stop attacking you?

I have no experience; I'm just using logic. So correct me if I'm wrong please. I just can't seem to understand why Frenzy isn't the worst skill in the game.

unless you've gotten yourself truely exp'ed in PvP and get yourself adapted to [frenzy] the honestly you wouldn't understand. i use to think frenzy was bad (back when i first started GW) until i started being more cautious with it. frenzy is 'not' an easy skill to learn to use, and, even the more experienced people can/will mess up with it from time to time.

~LeNa~

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

PvP discussions in this part of the forum sometimes lead to confusion if the type of pvp isn't specified.

Frenzy is a very good skill as long as you're aware of the things going on around you. You have to be quick to cancel it in a bad situation. Watch some observe matches and you'll see every axe/sword war using Frenzy. One thing to keep in mind though is that they're all gonna be backed up by monks, obviously. What works in high-end pvp doesn't always work in more unorganized pvp types like AB/RA. In those kinds of pvp, Frenzy is still viable but it can be a little more dangerous. You can't guarantee you'll be backed up by monks so it becomes abit more risky. Even worse, Empathy/Spiteful Spirit can screw you bad.

With good use of cancel stances, Frenzy is great....compared to other IAS's at least. Tiger stance has a long recharge and too much downtime. Flail means enemies will kite (assuming axe/sword). Flurry Decreases your damage, which isn't good. Burst of Aggression has a really bad drawback. The only option left really becomes Frenzy. It's one of those skills that becomes better with the player's skill - use it wrong and s*** will hit the fan.

Thanks a lot, though you sure that Flurry is bad? It only decreases your base damage, not bonus damage, so you can use FGJ and spam adrenal attack skills with no decrease in damage. Since most of your damage comes from bonus damage from attack skills anyways, can't base damage decrease be neglected?

Also, you need a cancel stance with Frenzy, so that's two skill slots. What if you just replace those two skills with two adrenal attack skills? With FGJ, wouldn't the two adrenal attack skills do as much damage as Frenzy? Frenzy basically increases your overall damage by 50% right?

Bobby2 · Apr 16, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Thanks a lot, though you sure that Flurry is bad? It only decreases your base damage, not bonus damage, so you can use FGJ and spam adrenal attack skills with no decrease in damage. Since most of your damage comes from bonus damage from attack skills anyways, can't base damage decrease be neglected?

This isn't the Sin forum. As a Warrior, your base weapon damage does significantly add up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Also, you need a cancel stance with Frenzy, so that's two skill slots. What if you just replace those two skills with two adrenal attack skills? With FGJ, wouldn't the two adrenal attack skills do as much damage as Frenzy? No. Frenzy basically increases your overall damage by 50% right? Yes, constantly, without having to build adrenaline first, stacking with bonus damage.

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

This isn't the Sin forum. As a Warrior, your base weapon damage does significantly add up.

I guess this table would fit in this post, too:

As you can see in the table, running 14 Weapon Mastery adds at LEAST 32.93 DPS.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful White Man

I guess this table would fit in this post, too:

As you can see in the table, running 14 Weapon Mastery adds at LEAST 32.93 DPS.

Well, bonus damage from attack skills like body blow and galrath slash x2(FGJ) is a lot more than this isn't it?

And are you sure this table is right? I don't think sword and axe DPS break even at rank 9. Don't they break even between 10 and 11?

Alex the Great · Apr 16, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Frenzy is the best skill in the game

followed closley by Dshot and RoF!!!

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Well, bonus damage from attack skills like body blow and galrath slash x2(FGJ) is a lot more than this isn't it?

And are you sure this table is right? I don't think sword and axe DPS break even at rank 9. Don't they break even between 10 and 11?

Took it from the sticky, not sure how reliable it is - point is, the Warrior weapons deal a base DPS larger than 30, which is pretty damn substantial.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful White Man

Took it from the sticky, not sure how reliable it is - point is, the Warrior weapons deal a base DPS larger than 30, which is pretty damn substantial.

Yeah, but you gotta compare that 30 to the bonus damage DPS (which I'm not sure what it is), just the number itself doesn't tell you anything. Though even with flurry, base damage is still increased by 12.5%, the other 37.5% seems like an ok tradeback compared to having to cancel Frenzy (which also takes up two skill slots). Though Flurry does need a lot of energy to maintain, but a zealous mod should fix that, and it can be maintained indefinitely. I don't know, I'm just throwing some facts out here.

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Yeah, but you gotta compare that 30 to the bonus damage DPS (which I'm not sure what it is), just the number itself doesn't tell you anything. Though even with flurry, base damage is still increased by 12.5%, the other 37.5% seems like an ok tradeback compared to having to cancel Frenzy (which also takes up two skill slots). Though Flurry does need a lot of energy to maintain, but a zealous mod should fix that, and it can be maintained indefinitely. I don't know, I'm just throwing some facts out here.

We should stop offering possibilities, and just say that Frenzy rox.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful White Man

We should stop offering possibilities, and just say that Frenzy rox.

Sorry, what's rox?

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Sorry, what's rox?

Learn to enunciate.
Rox = rocks.

ax mastery · Apr 16, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

ok, i'll expand on everyone else's points.

Frenzy ALLOWS YOU TO START A SPIKE WITH AN ADRENAL SKILL. This is key. Axe and sword spikes consist entirely of adrenal skills, so you would have to waste time mid spike, or preflail, which would give away the spike.

Flail is fine on hammers because CRUSHING BLOW is an energy attack, and thus flail can be actived just before CB, and there is no pause in the spike. If there were no energy attack in a hammer spike, flail would not be viable. Likewise, since CB is energy, the hammer spike would be very energy intensive if frenzy were used.

Also, the kd-kiting thing is a nice bonus for hammers.

Brave warriors spam shock.

--About the questioning frenzy thing, Sir Tidus, it is such a pain in the ass to run all the way from the enemy's backline to your own to try to punish a frenzy spamming warrior, only to have them cancel right when you get there. Point is, it takes a lot less time to cancel frenzy than to run back to punish someone in it.
This point is thrown out the window when there is significant caster or para damage, but cancelling frenzy is still quick and easy.

Since the downside can be largely canceled, and since it increases your dps and adrenaline gain rate by 50%, which is huge, it is amazing.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful White Man

Learn to enunciate.
Rox = rocks.

Then why not just say rocks? It's only two more letters. Plus I don't think you are supposed to do that on this forum.

Jam Jar · Apr 16, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Then why not just say rocks? It's only two more letters. Plus I don't think you are supposed to do that on this forum.

(4U53 I20X1N6 15 1337

Anyways, the reason frenzy is better is because your weapon does a substantial amount of damage as well. Only with the weapon damage will you get 100+ dmgs

. Try it out. You'll see that flurry reduces your damage by a lot

. While at the same time you know you're always doing more damage with frenzy

.

Chrono Re delle Ere · Apr 16, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Once I tried BoA for Shock axe spike and it was quite viable, as you still didn't have adrenaline after the spike, and it had no real cons for me, but frenzy wins them all in pvp

Tyla · Apr 16, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

In PvP, Hammers, yes.
For Swords and Axes? No.

Kiluna · Apr 16, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Flail means enemies will kite (assuming axe/sword).

In my RA/TA experience (which is NOT that high, still got proph/factions that i have to complete on few chars so don't have time to pvp much), Flail > Frenzy. Really, 1 or 2 games out of 10 i have problems with kiting. And when i do, it's because of a mistake and i use Flail when someone uses blocking skill, which leads to the fact that i wont get adrenaline for rush. But since flail and rush both are 4 adre skills you need to only be able to hit 1 time after you hit flail to have your cancel stance ready (or 1 time after any adre skill you use).

[skill]Bull's Strike[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill]

are 99% of time in my bar, just give the correct <insertweaponspecialization> skills.

On the other hand, if you wont get adrenaline to cancel Flail, would you have actually got it to cancel Frenzy? I mean, if someone is kiting you, be it flail or frenzy they are going to be out of your melee range. Only expection would be enemy healers as they need to stop and cast sometimes, rest can keep running away as much as they want :P

MasterSasori · Apr 16, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Frenzy is the best skill in the game

No that would be [skill]distracting shot[/skill]

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

(4U53 I20X1N6 15 1337

Anyways, the reason frenzy is better is because your weapon does a substantial amount of damage as well. Only with the weapon damage will you get 100+ dmgs

. Try it out. You'll see that flurry reduces your damage by a lot

. While at the same time you know you're always doing more damage with frenzy

.

Ok, but when the enemy is attacking you, you can keep using Flurry but not Frenzy. In PvE, you fight a lot of mobs that outnumber you, so the chance that you'll be under attack increases.