Curse

Maverick2201 · Mar 26, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Everything I've read says that [card]Shield of Judgement[/card] is not AoE for enemies that can be knocked down. I have read that enemies that cannot be knocked down may consider this AoE, but I just got EotN HM last night and on my first try with my 55 monk, I went out of EotN to see if I could take out Johon Oxflinger and his wolves... the wolves would attack until they were at about 10% health and then flee. They were getting knocked down when they attacked but still fled.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Talarian · Mar 26, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

AFAIK, any skill that targets and damages a single foe is not technically AoE. However, the way the AI interprets AoE does not depend on what the damage type actually is. Rather, if a mob is receiving high DPS, it will trigger the AoE scatter command regardless of the type of damage received. This can be observed in Sliver Armour builds, where there are large mobs, so SA deals massive damage to a single target.

miskav · Mar 26, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Melee mobs see this as AoE, and will scatter.
Ranged mobs how-ever, will not scatter from this.

It's the fact that the ''AoE'' part is Pulsated damage over time (Much like Lava Font) So Melee mobs will flee from it, but seeing as the damage isn't localized (As proven by ranged mobs) They don't flee, seeing as they can't seem to find the source of the AoE, so they don't know where to flee.

Maverick2201 · Mar 26, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talarian

AFAIK, any skill that targets and damages a single foe is not technically AoE. However, the way the AI interprets AoE does not depend on what the damage type actually is. Rather, if a mob is receiving high DPS, it will trigger the AoE scatter command regardless of the type of damage received. This can be observed in Sliver Armour builds, where there are large mobs, so SA deals massive damage to a single target.

Are you saying Sliver Armor does not cause scatter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by miskav

Melee mobs see this as AoE, and will scatter.
Ranged mobs how-ever, will not scatter from this.

It's the fact that the ''AoE'' part is Pulsated damage over time (Much like Lava Font) So Melee mobs will flee from it, but seeing as the damage isn't localized (As proven by ranged mobs) They don't flee, seeing as they can't seem to find the source of the AoE, so they don't know where to flee.

I did notice that - when I went into Ice Cliff Chasms to farm some Pinesouls they didn't flee... So you can't use SoJ with melee...

How do 55's counter it then? Also, any good EotN farming spots for 55's?

Talarian · Mar 26, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I'm saying Sliver Armour does cause scatter, when there are enough enemies causing enough DPS. When there are only a few enemies, or the enemies are attacking slowly, the scatter AI will not be triggered.

Maverick2201 · Mar 26, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

hmm... so there is some sort of threshold of DPS that causes the scatter... if I dropped Smiting Prayers down a bit so SoJ did a bit less damage, perhaps I could prevent the scatter...

Age · Mar 26, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

SoJ as far as Know is AoE and will cause KDs.It is why it was farming trolls in NM was fun and they were all effected by it.It was a good way to get wood for parchment.

Yuhe Ji · Mar 26, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

The problem isn't the damage, but how many times SoJ is hitting the AI around you. If they are getting hit quickly (because they are attacking quickly) they will decide to scatter. I don't think you can't get around it. It happens all the time with my 330 rit. Even though VwK is not technically AoE, melee attackers will still scatter because they are taking damage so quickly when they are next to me.

Age · Mar 26, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

They don't scatter anymore after the AoE nerf was removed and they are receiving the damage back to them.You aren't hitting them or doing any damage unless you are wanding them.

Yuhe Ji · Mar 27, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

They don't scatter anymore after the AoE nerf was removed and they are receiving the damage back to them.You aren't hitting them or doing any damage unless you are wanding them.

I believe they still scatter in Hard mode.

Age · Mar 27, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

No they don't they come after you in HM more as I gave it a try but trolls have healing signet which make it useless.

nootay · Mar 28, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

i just did a few tests with this and any time i have a lot of trolls on me getting hit with SoJ, they would run away. This is the same when farming undead with the hellhounds and whatever those little demon looking guys are that do melee damage. They run away too when there are more than 4 or 5 attacking at one time. It seems that you can only do 3 at a time now, at least in hard mode

Age · Mar 28, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by nootay

i just did a few tests with this and any time i have a lot of trolls on me getting hit with SoJ, they would run away. This is the same when farming undead with the hellhounds and whatever those little demon looking guys are that do melee damage. They run away too when there are more than 4 or 5 attacking at one time. It seems that you can only do 3 at a time now, at least in hard mode

I would say in HM they going away to heal up from their healing signets.The Crawling Craps I think they are called.

cellardweller · Mar 28, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

There are 2 effects that are you are seeing. There's the simple "flee from pulsing aoe" thats been in place since 2006, SoJ does not trigger this and it takes quite a while for even firestorm and the like to trigger this in NM since they toned it down.

There is the second that was added in 2007 that prevents melees from clumping. The best description I can come up with for the behaviour is "don't stand next to more than 3 other melees if you're low on health except if you're being attacked with a melee weapon". SoJ will trigger this behaviour.

odly · Mar 28, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

There are 2 effects that are you are seeing. There's the simple "flee from pulsing aoe" thats been in place since 2006, SoJ does not trigger this and it takes quite a while for even firestorm and the like to trigger this in NM since they toned it down.

There is the second that was added in 2007 that prevents melees from clumping. The best description I can come up with for the behaviour is "don't stand next to more than 3 other melees if you're low on health except if you're being attacked with a melee weapon". SoJ will trigger this behaviour.

Exactly.

It's the clumped melee condition that triggers on SoJ, not the aoe scatter effect. (This is also true for Sliver Armour)

If more than 3 melee are attacking the same target and one is low on health then it will run away to heal. (even if it doesn't have healing skills it will just wait for natural regen.) The last 3 will continue to attack you even if they drop death. When one is healed it will come back and one of the others will run to heal.

I believe this effect is disabled in normal mode, but active in hard mode. I'm not 100% sure about this though.

Talarian · Mar 28, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Can you post a link to this melee clumping update please?

Turbobusa · Mar 28, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Maybe scatter is just caused by the amount of damage over time caused on a certain zone. Maybe.

cellardweller · Mar 29, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talarian

Can you post a link to this melee clumping update please?

Sure
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/2006_October

Improved Monster AI
* Monsters no longer run from AoE damage when they are very healthy, or when they think they’re very close to killing their opponent.
* Melee monsters are more intelligent about keeping themselves spread out, so that they don’t put themselves into a position where they’re highly susceptible to AoE attacks.

Talarian · Mar 29, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Sure
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/2006_October

Improved Monster AI
* Monsters no longer run from AoE damage when they are very healthy, or when they think they’re very close to killing their opponent.
* Melee monsters are more intelligent about keeping themselves spread out, so that they don’t put themselves into a position where they’re highly susceptible to AoE attacks.

That's interesting...although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means. Rather, the AI was changed more to prevent balling. Also the first part of the update seems to imply that melee mobs will only run from AoE damage, and only if their health is low. Which may say something about how the system determines AoE damage in regards to SA and SoJ...