Curse

yoyoto · Mar 28, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I'm curious whats the best possible prophecies MM weapon I could get my friend??? I have NO CLUE what MMs need sooo please help

Turbobusa · Mar 28, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I'd say 40% cast +1 attribute staff

ivan.alicard · Mar 28, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

the deathbringer for about 5-10k

Chthon · Mar 28, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Oh no, not this again....

(Note: I know that you're Prophecies-only, but I might as well make things generally applicable if I'm going to take the time to post. You can buy non-Prophecies items from other players you know. And I'd be happy to craft factions stuff for you (or anyone else who doesn't have factions) at cost.)

Here's a rundown of the "good" options:

Staff: +5e, 20/20, 20% +1 death magic.
Call this the "Classic MM Staff."
Build it from a prophecies collector bone staff, factions collector lotus staff, any inscribable staff, or buy a Ghail's staff.
Wand: 20HRT, +5e^50 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades 3e (unconditional) for 5e^50. (Some people swear by this tradeoff; others complain that you lose the conditional 5e exactly when you need it most.)
Build the wand from any inscribable wand, or buy a Wayward Wand or Golden Boar Scepter; buy Bartok's Bone Cesta, or Armind's Focus, or build the focus from any inscribable focus.
Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades 3e for 20HCT
Craft the wand in factions or build it from an any inscribable wand; buy Bartok's Bone Cesta, or Armind's Focus, or build the focus from any inscribable focus.
Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20/20
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades 3e for 20HCT and trades the 20% +1 death magic for 20HRT.
Craft the wand in factions, or buy Avarr's Scepter, or Droknar's Death Scepter, or build it from an any inscribable wand; get a prophecies or factions collector focus or buy a Droknar's Death Focus.
Staff: +5e, 20/20, 20% longer enchantments.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades the 20% +1 death magic for 20% longer enchant. Only recommended if you're using Mystic Regeneration.
Build it from a prophecies collector bone staff, factions collector lotus staff, or any inscribable staff.
Spear: +5e/20% longer enchant + Focus: 20/20.
As compared to the above staff, this setup gains 2e, but you lose your wand damage. Only recommended if you're using Mystic Regeneration.
Build the spear from any inscribable spear, or buy Spirit of the Forgotten; get a prophecies or factions collector focus or buy a Droknar's Death Focus.
Staff: 20HCT, 20/20, 20% longer enchantments.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades the 20% +1 death magic for 20% longer enchant and trades 5e for 20HCT. Only recommended if you're using Mystic Regeneration.
Build it from a prophecies collector bone staff, factions collector lotus staff, or any inscribable staff.

I think that's everything that's worth considering. Anyone see one I missed?
[Edit: Sure enough, I forgot one. Added it.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I'd say 40% cast +1 attribute staff

No. [Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic] is going to get you 2e more than that staff and the other stats are the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivan.alicard

the deathbringer for about 5-10k

NO! There's an entire thread in the Question and Answer forum dedicated to the stupidity of bringing +30hp items on MM's, so I'm not going to rehash it again. Go look there to gain an understanding of why deathbringer is a bad item for MM's. At least you didn't suggest woe spreader...

Olim Chill · Mar 28, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20/20

That's my recommendation as well.

Turbobusa · Mar 28, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

No. [Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic] is going to get you 2e more than that staff and the other stats are the same.

Yes. You can't have both 20%cast and +1 attribute on a focus item.

Chthon · Mar 28, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Yes. You can't have both 20%cast and +1 attribute on a focus item.

Sigh....

Greens:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

Bortak's Bone Cesta / Armind's Focus
# Energy +12 (req. 9 Death Magic)
# Death Magic +1 (20% chance while using skills)
# Halves casting time of Death Magic spells (Chance: 20%)

Build it from an inscribable focus:
Focus Core of Aptitude + Master of My Domain Inscription.

You really should have at least checked the wiki before contradicting me.... especially since I named the specific green items that have those stats in my previous post...

Turbobusa · Mar 28, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Ooops.
I don't like focus + wand anyway, takes too much space in my invent!

Carinae · Mar 28, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[*]Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic.

Best option for a MM, IMHO, bar none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Yes. You can't have both 20%cast and +1 attribute on a focus item.

Uh, yea you can. Bortak's Bone Cesta

Or on an inscribable focus: Focus Core of Aptitude + Master of My Domain.

Turbobusa · Mar 28, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

It's ok i've corrected myself, I'll add a post again so that the next 50 persons won't jump on that. I did check wiki, just missed the +1 attrib inscription which wasn't with focus only inscriptions.

Still 40% cast/+1DM is the best option since there's only 3-4 usefull, long recharging DM skills, while there is way more long casting skills.

Carinae · Mar 28, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Ooops.
I don't like focus + wand anyway, takes too much space in my invent!

Wand and focus takes the same space as a staff. Really. and it's a better combo.

yoyoto · Mar 28, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades 3e for 20HCT
Craft the wand in factions or build it from an any inscribable wand; buy Bartok's Bone Cesta, or Armind's Focus, or build the focus from any inscribable focus.

How do I get this now? I'm REALLY stupid Please understand

Moloch Vein · Mar 28, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

For an MM you ABSOLUTELY NEED a +1/20 DM.

Chthon · Mar 29, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoyoto

Wand: 20/20 + Focus: 20HCT, 20% +1 death magic.
As compared to the classic MM staff, this setup trades 3e for 20HCT
Craft the wand in factions or build it from an any inscribable wand; buy Bartok's Bone Cesta, or Armind's Focus, or build the focus from any inscribable focus.

How do I get this now? I'm REALLY stupid Please understand

Well.....

To get the wand, you can:

Craft it at Leviathan Pits or Vasburg Armory, OR
Ask someone on the forums nicely if they will craft you one if you give them the materials (40 bone, 6 plant fiber, 5k), OR
Add a 20% "Aptitude Not Attitude" inscription and a 20% Wand Wrapping of Memory to any inscribable death magic wand.

To get the focus, you can:

Buy Bortak's Bone Cesta from another player, OR
Buy Armind's Focus from another player, OR
Put a 20% Focus Core of Aptitude and a 20% "Master of My Domain" inscription on any inscribable death magic focus.

Shadowmere · Mar 30, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

For an MM you ABSOLUTELY NEED a +1/20 DM.

I second this, MM-ing will be about the only time you will get any noticable difference by using a +1/20 mod. Most other times you'll get a slightly stronger spell every so often, with MM-ing that's a higher lvl minion that'll stick with you longer and kick the enemies harder.

And also I'd go for 40% HCT over HSR unless you're bringing some minions with long down times (shambling horrors or fleshie). But that's just me

The Meth · Mar 31, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmere

I second this, MM-ing will be about the only time you will get any noticable difference by using a +1/20 mod. Most other times you'll get a slightly stronger spell every so often, with MM-ing that's a higher lvl minion that'll stick with you longer and kick the enemies harder.
And also I'd go for 40% HCT over HSR unless you're bringing some minions with long down times (shambling horrors or fleshie). But that's just me

You are wrong about the +1/20 mod. Check the bone fiend damage increase from lvl 18 to 19:
Bone_fiend

As you can see, the bone fiend gains 1-2 damage with the +1 level. With the base damage of 17-49 at lvl 18, you gain 4.5% damage. There is a 20% chance of the +1 skill activating, so you have a +0.9% damage increase by putting the +1/20 mod on. Compare that to, say, a 20% chance of casting 2 Death Nova's in time it would normally take you to cast 1, or getting more minions up. Heck, even if you just used the extra time given by 20% cast for wanding, you would add more damage through your wand then you would through minions. Don't believe the BS sellers of weapons like to spout out when you can calculate what actually happens for yourself.

Captain Miken · Mar 31, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

40/40 set imo~

or a +5 / 20 / 40

Carinae · Mar 31, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

You are wrong about the +1/20 mod. Check the bone fiend damage increase from lvl 18 to 19:
Bone_fiend

As you can see, the bone fiend gains 1-2 damage with the +1 level. With the base damage of 17-49 at lvl 18, you gain 4.5% damage.

Minions also gain 4.5% health (+20hp, basically a fortitude mod for the affected minion) and 5.5% armor. Plus an increased chance of Critical hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

There is a 20% chance of the +1 skill activating, so you have a +0.9% damage increase by putting the +1/20 mod on.

You'll have at least 2 minions boosted at all times. Likely more than that, because monsters are going to go after the weaker level 18 minions first. Level 19 Minions accumulate somewhat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Compare that to, say, a 20% chance of casting 2 Death Nova's in time it would normally take you to cast 1, or getting more minions up. Heck, even if you just used the extra time given by 20% cast for wanding, you would add more damage through your wand then you would through minions.

This entire argument is a red herring. The +1 mod doesn't replace a HCT mod, in fact we are already recommending two HCT mods.

The Meth · Mar 31, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Minions also gain 4.5% health (+20hp, basically a fortitude mod for the affected minion) and 5.5% armor. Plus an increased chance of Critical hits.
You'll have at least 2 minions boosted at all times. Likely more than that, because monsters are going to go after the weaker level 18 minions first. Level 19 Minions accumulate somewhat.
This entire argument is a red herring. The +1 mod doesn't replace a HCT mod, in fact we are already recommending two HCT mods.

The mod acts only 20% of the time, all improvements have to be divided by 5 to get the average improvement.

Minions on average gain 20/5 = 4 health each, so they live the whole half second longer it takes for degen to beat that down?

Minions will on average gain 3/5 = .6 armor each, which equates to a whopping 1% damage reduction. Again, I am in awe of the increased power.

By the way, minion criticals don't increase damage done.

You may have 2 minions with +1 level at each time. You may have 1. You may get lucky and have all 10. But on average, the difference is not at all noticeable. If you know a little bit of statistics, you can prove that there is even an 11% chance that in any given army of 10 minions that 0 will get a level buff. The idea of lvl 19 minions 'accumulating' is pretty much ridiculous because again, the differences are minimal.

Spare me the agony of my stupidity for mixing up HCT and HSR, but the fact is whether you are losing HCT, HSR, or nearly any other mod (except health, since that is negated by the increased sacs), 20% chance of +1 attribute does not make up for it. +4 health per minion is meaningless, why not have a 20% chance of getting shambling horrors 2x as fast? As compared to using a weaker minion like bone horrors, thats basically as good as raising another minion. What about a 20% chance of fast botm recharge? Thats a 20% chance of doubled healing power, which is gonna beat the pants off a piddling 4 health per minion.

Moloch Vein · Mar 31, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

+4 health per minion is meaningless, why not have a 20% chance of getting shambling horrors 2x as fast?

Because Shambling Horrors suck anyway?

Oh, and where did you get the idea that a minion critical hit does no more damage than an ordinary hit? You can't have tried using an N/P MM build if you believe that.