Curse

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 23, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I'm just curious what other people prefer. I've heard people saying rit was faster and I've also heard monk was faster from others. Having only learned on my rit I don't think I can acurately compare the two. So I'd like to hear the pros and cons of each build and why people think said build is better.

Really as for rit I can only spot one problem and its the spirits draining your monk after you've wiped out a group taking a bit longer to gather the energy needed for sb.

Alex the Great · Mar 23, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

the rit is faster, but more dangerous because spell breaker may run out.

MercenaryKnight · Mar 23, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

The thing is, you have to constantly use monk hero/smiter for sber and that I believe will generally take more time. However, vwk adds a lot of life steal damage which should make up for it.

Abedeus · Mar 23, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Ritualist tank - Faster
Monk tank - Safer

Plus, if you are running people through CoF, ask one or two of them for a healing spells for bonder... He might die because of recent CoF update.

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 23, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Yeah I noticed in the build the smiter doesnt have much invested into divine so ti can't really heal itself too well like the rit's smiter.

A11Eur0 · Mar 23, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

I've noticed a large speed difference between rit and monk tanks. Rit tank, in my personal experience both being the smiter and being a 3rd party runner, is SLOWER than monk. When I tank, am being run, or am smiting for a monk, it tends to go so much faster. I don't know why...as VWK SHOULD increase the damage dealt and kill mobs faster...the only explanation would have to be the spellbreaker necessity on the smiter, thus the need to build 15 energy before moving on to the next group. The monk tank does not need to do this, thus can overlap mobs as I do at the end of the first level. SB, take out the Keeper's group, spellbreaker is still up when the first group of crypts pops, run in and start wailing on the shock phantom. When sb runs out, it's already recharged so pop it up again. Let the phantom start hitting you, then run over to the other...this is a seamless transition that a rit tank cannot do. There are many such transitions throughout the dungeon, and they more than add up to a sizeable, noticeable time difference between a good monk 600 and a good rit tank with a smiter on the ball.

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 23, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Well after thinking about I'm going to try the monk version tomorrow and see how I do.

A Simple Farmer · Mar 23, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I'd say the Rt is faster in the short run, I played around at completing the first level and couldn't go faster than 5 minutes. Which is faster than I could do with my Monk, but it was inconsistent. I also couldn't get close to times like that when running a group, as my ping would get too high and I'd lag death. So I'd have to run safer, or run as monk.

Not having SOA all the time with 3 groups is tricky.
As a monk a continual SOA makes for a more consistent average speed.
(hmmm maybe a Mo-rt with VWK and continual SOA....)

More of a tortoise and the hare thing, for me anyways.

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 23, 2008, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Is there any such thing as too much hp? I was trying something outside gunnars in HM with my max norn title on and I died. I went back out without it and I did fine.

philo · Mar 23, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Yes, there can be something like too much health. It obviously occurs when the synergy between Prot Spirit and SB stops working: as soon as 10% of your health is a higher number than the heal output of SB, you start getting into trouble.
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.

I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600

Nightow · Mar 23, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Another thing to consider is that the rit does not have access to mantra of resolve. When facing interupts, he must rather rely on mindbender to get his spells to slip through the interupts.

Yuhe Ji · Mar 24, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I've tried both and found that the Rit build is a bit faster, but requires much more management (if you're using heroes). The monk build is much easier to use and the heroes just need to be there to maintain the enchantments. The monk can do the rest.

govolunteers05 · Mar 24, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

I think Rit is faster, just because I got used to it.
When I do CoF with monk, it seems bit slow.
Some people might say "You need smiter hero to get 15 energy to cast SB", but monk tank also has to wait for Spell Breaker (Of course, I"m talking about the situation that you NEED spell breaker)

Just my opinion

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 24, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

After trying the monk version I kinda dislike the shorter duration on spellbreaker :/

dustbunny · Mar 25, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by philo

Yes, there can be something like too much health. It obviously occurs when the synergy between Prot Spirit and SB stops working: as soon as 10% of your health is a higher number than the heal output of SB, you start getting into trouble.
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.

I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600

You will get to a point where higher health is detrimental before you reach the point where damage cap from prot spirit outstrips healing capability from SB. The lower breakpoint comes from damage cap on the holy smiter. At 16 smiting, holy wrath does 53 damage max and retribution is 21 damage max. That gives you 803 health for holy wrath and 636 health for retribution. Above these, you will not get any increase in damage output. If you have both holy wrath and retribution on your tank, you will not get any increase in damage output above ~800 health at 16 smiting. You just take more damage. If you use consumables to cast smiting at greater than 16, then the damage-cap limited health is greater than 800. At 17 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~850 health. At 18 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~890 health.

Dr Dimento · Mar 25, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I have a 600rit i use for this....

Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.

Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....

Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.

Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune.

Dr Dimento · Mar 25, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Also, worth noting (and cracked me up) is that on a run, after i paid, right at the last boss 3 guys in my party didn't pay.......so the 2 monks wouldn't kill the final boss.

I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).

I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up.

Abonai Laguna · Mar 25, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Dimento

Also, worth noting (and cracked me up) is that on a run, after i paid, right at the last boss 3 guys in my party didn't pay.......so the 2 monks wouldn't kill the final boss.

I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).

I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up.

qft
I prefer the ritualist for faster killing, but sometimes i use my monk for a little difference

MercenaryKnight · Mar 26, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Dimento

I have a 600rit i use for this....

Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.

Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....

Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.

Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune.

I am assuming you are using light of deldrimor on your rit? Because I did a run and found it terribly slow even with vwk the mobs would have a few still alive after sber ended and it was most likely because I didn't have light of deldrimor to spam.

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 26, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I don't think having 1 less in smiting would make that much of a difference in killing speed. Also considering the longer sb duration and the lifesteal from vwk it seems unlikely.