Curse

bisurge · Apr 04, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 10+1+3
Marksmanship: 10+1
Wilderness Survival: 9+1
Illusion Magic: 6

Skills:
Dual Shot
Hunter’s Shot
Savage Shot
Melandru’s Arrows {E}
Conjure Phantasm
Troll Unguent
Charm Animal
Resurrection Signet

__________________________________________________ _________________
Warrior/Ranger

Swordsmanship: 11+1+3
Wilderness Survival: 10+1
Strength: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 1

Skills:

Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Battle Rage {E}
Apply Poison
Frenzy
Charm Animal
Troll Unguent

__________________________________________________ _________________
Will these builds work for PvE and general PvP? Don't try to talk me out of the build completely, I've decided what suits me, but is there anything I can do to make these builds better?

P.S. The level 1 Beast Mastery is for the last skill point that's unused at the end. It's nothing big. Haven't decided what to use the Ranger's leftover points on. Maybe Beast Mastery also.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Apr 04, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Tbh complete fail on both
www.pvxwiki.com
go there much better builds

bisurge · Apr 04, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Well can you tell me what's wrong with them?
I don't like that place because it hardly has anything that's Prophecies only, which is the only game I have.

kratimas · Apr 04, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

For PvP I would take Kerwyn's suggestion.

However for PvE use whatever you like. Go out and give it a try. If it does not work, try to figure out why it didn't work and fix that.
In PvE you really have to cater your builds to the type of enemies you are fighting and the environment.

Most of all must have fun with it! That is what this game is supposed to be about.

Krat

Savio · Apr 04, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisurge

Don't try to talk me out of the build completely, I've decided what suits me

Then don't bother asking. Any build "works", whether or not they're any good is a different matter.

PvXwiki isn't good unless you're farming or you're really desperate for builds. Go to The Campfire, post your builds in the appropriate forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratimas

In PvE you really have to cater your builds to the type of enemies you are fighting and the environment.

No, no you don't.

Pets are worthless for damage unless you actually put points in Beastmastery, and it's not worth speccing into Wilderness Survival just for Troll Unguent.

kel77 · Apr 04, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Your build first...
The best elite marksmanship skill from proph is probably barrage, mel arrows is meh.
Speccing points into illusion and taking conjure phantasm is bad.
/mo might be your best choice for hard rez
Having a pet is generally bad.
Not having distracting shot is bad.
Hunter's shot is bad.
Dual Shot is bad.

Now Jora's...
Frenzy on a hero is bad.
Pet's are bad.
Final Thrust is bad.
Battle Rage is shit.
Sup runes are bad in PvE

the kurzick eater · Apr 04, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

-your speccing the wrong attributes. use mainly all of your att pts on main attributes, not another classses (10?)

-dont use superior runes. EVAR D=

-no using degn skills for mesmers on a ranger, especially since you can uuse apply poison.

- melandrus arrow kinda fails, try barrage or something, just not that.

-dont use a pet on a warior, and hero warriors kinda suck anyways. id bring dragon slash (gr8 pve sword elite)

-final thrust isnt that bad, especially because of your limitations on skills, BUT heroes SUCKKK with it.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisurge

Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 10+1+3
Marksmanship: 10+1
Wilderness Survival: 9+1
Illusion Magic: 6

Skills:
Dual Shot
Hunter’s Shot
Savage Shot
Melandru’s Arrows {E}
Conjure Phantasm
Troll Unguent
Charm Animal
Resurrection Signet

Right, let's sort this build out. Conjure Phantasm doesn't synergise with Rangers and you're lacking D-Shot.
It would also be smart to get rid of the pet and put in a blocking stance, such as Whirling Defense or Lightning Reflexes. Superior runes aren't really good either, so go for 14 (12+1+1) Expertise, 10 (9+1) Wilderness Survival and Marksmanship.

It would also be wise to consider a new elite slot. Punishing Shot can be used as an interrupt on extra. Barrage is quite bad because it disallows you a preperation, and is only really good for Save Yourselves charging.

If you take Punishing Shot, take Apply Poison over Dual Shot. Apply Poison is simply the best preperation in the game.

Quote:

Warrior/Ranger

Swordsmanship: 11+1+3
Wilderness Survival: 10+1
Strength: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 1

Skills:

Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Battle Rage {E}
Apply Poison
Frenzy
Charm Animal
Troll Unguent

Battle Rage is really quite bad. Even Hundred Blades is better. Charm Animal on a Warrior is quite bad, it's even a waste on any class unless you're running something like a RaO or HaO Spear Ranger.

Warriors shouldn't need Troll Unguent, and the same goes for self-heals altogether. Apply Poison isn't really good for Warriors because Warriors aren't ment for condition spreading.

A basic Sword Warrior build consists of: --

Sever Artery
Gash
Sword attack skill, preferably Galrath Slash for proph-only.
IAS (Frenzy)
Cancel Stance (Rush is best)
And Bull's Strike (In PvP)
Ressurrection Signet is a must aswell.

Judging from these skill sets you only have Prophecies, but just out of curiosity -- how did you get 10+1 Wilderness Survival on a Warrior? :s

Answering your question -- Yes, it will do PvE. But you should aim for the best you can achieve while using a normal build.

Kamara · Apr 04, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Okey dokey.

I see what you're trying to do with the ranger. I remember not too long ago seeing in a "things you did as a newb" thread someone saying "Aw, cmon. We *all* had conjure phantasm on our rangers at one point!" I remember taking it into ABs once thinking it was the best thing in the world. I now cringe at my past self for being a nub :P. I'd suggest dropping the Illusion stuff and taking Apply Poison instead. Now, it's not possible to poison everything, but you'll soon learn what can't be poisoned and drop it out when it's not needed. This is a prep, much like Melandru's Arrows, so you'll need to drop that. you already cause bleeding from Hunter's Shot. I'd suggest something like Punishing Shot or Crippling Shot as your elite. These are both available in prophs.

If you're bringing a pet on a ranger, it's a good idea to put a substantial amount of points into Beastmastery so the pet does some damage and is actually a threat. Right now all it will do is flail pathetically at enemies. Similarly, when bringing a pet, bring Comfort Animal. It's your job to keep your pet alive. If you bring the pet into PvP and people notice it's doing next to nothing, then they'll just take it out to cause a long shut down on all your skills as the pet dies, leaving you pretty helpless.

Hope that makes some sense and gives you some idea why the skills need tweaking rather than "LOLOLOL RUN THIS, NUBCAKES" which doesn't help anyone now really ^_^.

---

With regards to the warrior, Battle Rage is a pretty poor elite. You can't use your non-attack skills (such as a self heal) and you lose all adren, the thing that powers your attack skills. Make sense? So yeah, meh.

You're a sword warrior so your only sword elite is Hundred Blades which is.... not that good. Have you tried playing with axes? If so, pick up the "Eviscerate" skill. This is considered one of *the* best warrior elites. But if you really like your swords, then pick up Hundred Blades. It's not *wow* by any stretch of the imagination, but it'll do!

Apply poison is far too much energy to use on your warrior. Drop the WS stuff and add in Healing Signet, throw those points into Tactics. You'll get -40 armor when using heal sig, so be careful with it. Though a maxed armored warrior shouldn't have too much issue with this as they're already armored out the wazoo. As time goes on you can ditch the self-heal and just rely on monks to keep you upright. But if your only monks are Lina, Mhenlo and Alesia then yeeeah, a self-heal might be good

As you have Frenzy on your bar, it's a good idea to bring a cancel stance for when things get nasty. As your prophs-only, the perfect one for this is Rush or Sprint. They're speed boosts and relatively cheap adren/energy wise

Again, like with the ranger, consider dropping the pet unless you can spec beast mastery in there as it's not really helping you, just taking up 2 skill slots (again, if bringing a pet, bring something to heal it/rez it)

Hope that helps you figure out where to improve without being too over demanding on what your build must have... type... thingy ^_^

Splitisoda · Apr 04, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I'll try to think up of a few *cough* OK warrior prophecies only build.

For an Earth Warrior

Runes on head, legs, and gloves. Stonefist on pants, anything you want for chest.
12+1+1 Hammer Mastery
10+1 Tactics
8+1 Strength

[skill]Flail[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Crude Swing[/skill][skill]Earth Shaker[/skill][skill]Counter Blow[/skill][skill]Mighty Blow[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]Restore Life[/skill]

Basically, charge up adreneling, try to keep flail up, use Earth Shaker whenever possible, try to keep enemies knocked down of course =P

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

I'll try to think up of a few *cough* OK warrior prophecies only build.

For an Earth Warrior

Runes on head, legs, and gloves. Stonefist on pants, anything you want for chest.
12+1+1 Hammer Mastery
10+1 Tactics
8+1 Strength

[skill]Flail[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Crude Swing[/skill][skill]Earth Shaker[/skill][skill]Counter Blow[/skill][skill]Mighty Blow[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill][skill]Restore Life[/skill]

Basically, charge up adreneling, try to keep flail up, use Earth Shaker whenever possible, try to keep enemies knocked down of course =P

Keep in mind Flail is from Nightfall.
But yeah, not using Swords is best for Prophecies only. For Hammers, you have Earth Shaker, for Axes, you have Cleave (Better than Evis for PvE, imo.) and Eviscerate. Heck, you can even toy with the PvP build Shock Axe in PvE...

HawkofStorms · Apr 04, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Superior runes isn't that bad for PvE (until they became all the rage in PvP about 12 months ago, superiors were used all the time. HM is the only time the extra health from using minors instead of superiors is really "neccessary").

I wouldn't tell him not to use superiors. He is only using one (which is perfectly fine, just don't use 2 or more, because then you will be very limited for health).

A pet without points in beast mastery means they do no damage. Also, without a way to res your pet, it will be completely useless after it dies the first time (unless you wipe).

Also, don't use PvXwiki. Try to come up with your own stuff first. You will figure out what works and what doesn't later in the game. It is best to experiment with your own builds before falling on a cruch and using somebody else's work. That way, you figure out for yourself WHY something works.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Hawk, you're right on the "Don't tell him not to use Superiors" thing. But it's best to inform you're putting your survivability to a risk. In the end you might as well run a 12+1+1 in your weapon mastery, because in my opinion, the -75 health penalty isn't worth it.

But I wouldn't consider the last paragraph. I mean, I've seen alot of really bad players get r6 KoaBD who still use Mending ect. So it's best to seek out a little advice at first stages.

MisterB · Apr 04, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Superior runes isn't that bad for PvE (until they became all the rage in PvP about 12 months ago, superiors were used all the time. HM is the only time the extra health from using minors instead of superiors is really "neccessary"). I wouldn't tell him not to use superiors. He is only using one (which is perfectly fine, just don't use 2 or more, because then you will be very limited for health).

I'm pretty sure the main reason for the change in opinion(for PvP) is the removal of the ability to swap armor as well as power creep from Nightfall skills. I haven't played in PvP since Factions, so feel free to flame/correct me if I'm incorrect there. Everything hits harder, and you can no longer swap down to a minor after DP. Avarre's "Duality" article and Racthoh's posts and threads have possibly contributed to the shift in mentality for PvE on this forum. Also, Hard mode has changed the argument in favor of minors in PvE for some.

On topic, Charm Animal is wasted on both of those builds(especially the Warrior), and Conjure Phantasm is not a Ranger skill. There's some good advice in other posts here.

bisurge · Apr 04, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Okey dokey.

I see what you're trying to do with the ranger. I remember not too long ago seeing in a "things you did as a newb" thread someone saying "Aw, cmon. We *all* had conjure phantasm on our rangers at one point!" I remember taking it into ABs once thinking it was the best thing in the world. I now cringe at my past self for being a nub :P. I'd suggest dropping the Illusion stuff and taking Apply Poison instead. Now, it's not possible to poison everything, but you'll soon learn what can't be poisoned and drop it out when it's not needed. This is a prep, much like Melandru's Arrows, so you'll need to drop that. you already cause bleeding from Hunter's Shot. I'd suggest something like Punishing Shot or Crippling Shot as your elite. These are both available in prophs.

If you're bringing a pet on a ranger, it's a good idea to put a substantial amount of points into Beastmastery so the pet does some damage and is actually a threat. Right now all it will do is flail pathetically at enemies. Similarly, when bringing a pet, bring Comfort Animal. It's your job to keep your pet alive. If you bring the pet into PvP and people notice it's doing next to nothing, then they'll just take it out to cause a long shut down on all your skills as the pet dies, leaving you pretty helpless.

Hope that makes some sense and gives you some idea why the skills need tweaking rather than "LOLOLOL RUN THIS, NUBCAKES" which doesn't help anyone now really ^_^.

---

With regards to the warrior, Battle Rage is a pretty poor elite. You can't use your non-attack skills (such as a self heal) and you lose all adren, the thing that powers your attack skills. Make sense? So yeah, meh.

You're a sword warrior so your only sword elite is Hundred Blades which is.... not that good. Have you tried playing with axes? If so, pick up the "Eviscerate" skill. This is considered one of *the* best warrior elites. But if you really like your swords, then pick up Hundred Blades. It's not *wow* by any stretch of the imagination, but it'll do!

Apply poison is far too much energy to use on your warrior. Drop the WS stuff and add in Healing Signet, throw those points into Tactics. You'll get -40 armor when using heal sig, so be careful with it. Though a maxed armored warrior shouldn't have too much issue with this as they're already armored out the wazoo. As time goes on you can ditch the self-heal and just rely on monks to keep you upright. But if your only monks are Lina, Mhenlo and Alesia then yeeeah, a self-heal might be good

As you have Frenzy on your bar, it's a good idea to bring a cancel stance for when things get nasty. As your prophs-only, the perfect one for this is Rush or Sprint. They're speed boosts and relatively cheap adren/energy wise

Again, like with the ranger, consider dropping the pet unless you can spec beast mastery in there as it's not really helping you, just taking up 2 skill slots (again, if bringing a pet, bring something to heal it/rez it)

Hope that helps you figure out where to improve without being too over demanding on what your build must have... type... thingy ^_^

Thanks a lot for your post. Actually all your posts are good (except for those few that says these builds are fail, go away), and I'll take all of them into consideration, I'll respec and post another build. Actually, my main focus is my Warrior, not my Ranger, because I enjoy melee a lot more. I'm not one to hide, though it does work with a pet (though it does die fast and it goes for me next, but I have Troll Unguent and the pet doesn't). I think I defeated the purpose of the pet because the monster always goes for me instead of allowing me to hide behind my pet. Anyways, I like melee damage more, I might give up on my Ranger, I only wanted one because bows are cool and they look cool(male)/sexy(female).

Anyways, is Flourish a good skill to get on a Warrior?

I've decided to build an axe warrior, I hate mace except the knockdowns because in my personal opinion, shields are good. Anyways, if I'm going to have a secondary class (which I want) which one should it be? I really don't know, anyways if I'm getting tactics just for the Healing Signet (one of the posts above) shouldn't I just become a monk and get Orison of Healing/Healing Breeze? (I like Healing Breeze better, you can fight while it still takes effect)

Should I go with Gladiator's Defense? That way I can still be a sword warrior (though I don't think I want to anymore) and have a stance with Frenzy.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Gladiators Defense and Flourish are both quite bad.
Gladiators Defense wastes your elite slot that can be better spent on a block.
Flourish is bad because the majority of the energy Warrior attack skills are bad.
Plus Glad's Defense is a stance so you can't stack with Frenzy.

But you wouldn't want to go with Healing Prayers. Especially on a Warrior. Healing Breeze and Orison of Healing look good on paper, but they really aren't.
Healing Breeze is bad even on a Monk, because it's a dear regen enchantment. Orison is also bad because of the very mediocre heal.

Grammar · Apr 04, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by kel77

Hunter's shot is bad

Oh Really? Funny thing is, Hunter's shot is now superior to Penetrating/Sundering Attack.

Yup, that's how badly Penetrating/Sundering Attack were nerfed. Hunter's Shot now outclasses them.

Don't believe me? Take a closer look...
- They have roughly equal damage after calculating for armor penetration; almost exactly equal damage, actually, give or take a point or two depending on the size of the hit and AL of the target.
- They both have 1/2 second activation
- Hunter's Shot is 5 energy, PA/SA is 10
- Hunter's Shot has a 5 second recharge, PA/SA has a 4 second recharge (it's only advantage)
- Hunter's Shot gives you a chance to inflict bleeding, PA/SA does not.

Lol, never thought I'd see the day. Like I said though, that's how badly PA/SA were nerfed.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Except Hunter's Shot has a 5 second recharge.

I wouldn't run Ranger Turret outside of PvE anymore anyway.

Cebe · Apr 04, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisurge

Will these builds work for PvE and general PvP? Don't try to talk me out of the build completely, I've decided what suits me, but is there anything I can do to make these builds better?

P.S. The level 1 Beast Mastery is for the last skill point that's unused at the end. It's nothing big. Haven't decided what to use the Ranger's leftover points on. Maybe Beast Mastery also.

I hope the "I've decided what suits me" part doesn't mean "I like pets and I will never remove Charm Animal from my bars".

In addition to what everyone else has said, make sure you take a look at these:

Basic Guide to Playing Ranger
Warriors in PvE - The how-to guide

Washi · Apr 04, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kel77

The best elite marksmanship skill is probably barrage
Hunter's shot is bad.

Please Stop Giving Advices
Thank you