Curse

Racthoh · Apr 10, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo overdose

wow ok you need something checked 1stZB was way overpowered and might still be 2nd stop complaining about boa's or SF or blah blah blah they all can be stopped easy

Everything can be countered, that isn't a valid argument.

Quote:

what are you amazed a sin can poof in and kill someone or are you more amazed that an already nerfed skill can damage and burn you

Playing monk is a lot harder than pressing 123456 (and sometimes a 7) then waiting 20 seconds.

Laenavesse · Apr 11, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Well BoA has been nerfed, so I don't think you should have worries, though really, if you saw them and saw the hex, you should have the prots up.

I brought sig of rejuvenation for energy gain actually xD That's cos I used Channeling and popped it on whenever I was being attacked.

Free heal, and free bit of energy.

the "nerf" to ZB is also not that bad, I think it's alright, nothing to complain about.

Effigy · Apr 11, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

BoA is dead. Long live Tiger Stance!

Melody Cross · Apr 13, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I am probably going to regret this...

With the change to Deny Hexes, BoonProt may once again be a viable build, considering the meta you face. BProts tend to have lots of 10 second recharge skills so that you tend to have something in DF recharging most of the time anyway.

My guild let me try a corny build for the weekend with a 3-monk backline. Our runner was a Peace and Harmony BoonProt. Now everyone can groan and say how much PnH sucks, but thats because its usually used as a single monk energy manager and most of the testing I remember being done with it was back in the 2-monk backline days. With a larger backline--like the 3-monk backlines we see and use a lot today--PnH is actually one of the most powerful energy managers in the game. Not for a BProt; the energy is rather tight when the runner was asked to solo. But 8v8, the LoD and RC monks were able to spam quite fiercely and stand up to pressure for longer periods of time than the other team.

When you put Deny Hexes onto a flag run build like that, with all those recharging DF skills, Deny is really really strong against hex stacks.

A BLight runner might be a good choice too again. The reason people stopped running BLight was because it was mostly used to heal and remove a hex at the same time. Now it can be a good all-around skill, and with using sig of devotion too, you can fuel deny for a strong heal.

So, Deny is not very good for the builds we are using now, but it could prove very useful in the builds we used to use, or builds we make around it. Don't know if that makes sense

GGs

moko · Apr 13, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

So, Deny is not very good for the builds we are using now, but it could prove very useful in the builds we used to use, or builds we make around it. Don't know if that makes sense

GGs

this is very very true, i actually thought the exact same things at some point -- and starting playing Blight again! :]

but that BProt idea is awesome! didnt think about it at the slightest.

Simath · Apr 13, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

1. As it relates to Gift of Health, is Sig of Rejuvenation considered a healing prayers "skill" that would be disabled by using GoH?

Yes it will be disabled by using GoH.

The nerf to ZB really wasn't too bad. Assuming Protection Prayers are at 14 (12+1+1) ZB will still heal for around 170 plus the Divine Favor bonus. So it should be somewhere around a 200 heal.

As for the 10 energy gain being reduced to 7 it still isn't that big of a deal. If used on an ally with less than 50% health you will be getting an energy gain of 7. Simple math 10-7=3. So it will only be costing 3 energy. Pretty good for a heal of around 200.

But the change to Sig of Rejuvenation made me pretty happy.

Effigy · Apr 13, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Sig of Rejuv is great now, yes.

I was also giving BLight another look after the change to Deny. Certainly gives you more defense against hex stacks. If you get hit with Humility, I assume BL would count as a recharging skill for Deny, which would be another line of defense against hexway teams.

Age · Apr 13, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

What do you all think of Deny Hex with the changes is it up there say with Viel?

Patrick Smit · Apr 14, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Most of the changer are good in my opinion, except the change to mending touch. I use it a lot on a draw build, but cannot pump out the self heal so much anymore when pressured (i only use MT when i need the heal). The nerf was intended to prevent "abuse"/overuse by monk secondaries to remove condition stacks, however its effectivity has also been decreased on primary monks. The amount of conditions removed should scale with level of protection prayers IMO. In this way monks don't get punished for ("pointless") abuse by monk secondaries.

One question about deny hexes, as i didnt use it yet, does its own recharge also count? so if u use deny hexes without any other recharging divine skill, you still remove one hex?

I like preveiling on 4 vs 4, but i am not aware how much this is used on other pvp scales. deny will never have this option and preveiling can work out good solutions on for example diversion.

TLLOTS · Apr 14, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

One question about deny hexes, as i didnt use it yet, does its own recharge also count? so if u use deny hexes without any other recharging divine skill, you still remove one hex?

From what I've heard, Deny Hexes counts itself, so it will always remove at least one hex.

Red_Dragon56 · Apr 14, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Don't you only need 8 levels in healing now to get Mending at +3?

It's still Mending but it's now even more WAMMO friendly.

ca_aok · Apr 14, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

It's been like that for quite a long time....

Patrick Smit · Apr 14, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

@Red_Dragon56, I was discussing the recent change to MENDING TOUCH, not to mending, as u shouldnt be using that

Thx for the info TLLOTS, that gives deny hexes some edge if u use another DP skill

Grammar · Apr 14, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I'm a PvE player, and the change to Deny Hex raised my eyebrow as well for its possible use in PvE as a replacement for Holy Veil in certain builds and situations.

With no other recharging divine favor skills besides itself, Deny will still remove 1 hex with the same cost/cast/recast as Veil and Smite, but with no added benefits. In this situation, Veil clearly remains the best option.

But what if your build already has, say, Sig of Devotion in it (not uncommon), which happens to be recharging when you cast Deny (also not uncommon). Now you have the potential to remove two hexes with the same cost/cast/recast as Veil.
Of course you won't always need to remove two hexes from your target or yourself, but if you do find yourself in that situation, all you need to do is make sure Sig of Devotion is recharging before you cast Deny. Depending on your build, this may be a fairly easy requirement to meet. Sig of Devotion is almost always in a state of recharge on my ZB bar, so it's not like I would have to change my play style or build in order to make good use of Deny.

Just some random thoughts for you. I'm still tinkering around with it.
I will admit though, I certainly miss the Veil+Dismiss synergy when playing with Deny.

One more thing....
What does everyone think about Reverse Hex now?
The new cast/recast is pretty damn seductive, and the added damage absorption is a nice (but small) bonus. But is all of that worth the added 5 energy cost?
I can't help but think that when it comes right down to it, I'd rather simply cast RoF+Veil or Veil+Dismiss for the same energy cost as Reverse Hex.
But damn, that cast/recast sure is temping, lol.

Ensign · Apr 15, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Deny is a lot klunkier than I want it to be. Unless you have some long recharge DF skill that is always recharging, I wouldn't bother. Veil is still the spot removal of choice for PvP.

In PvE, dangerous hexes are sufficiently rare that I wouldn't bother removing them for the most part.

Reverse Hex is 10 energy to remove a hex. Most hexes aren't worth the 5 energy to remove. I guess this is supposed to be a counter to Shadow Prison spike, but I'd honestly spend my skill slots on much more robust skills.

Peace,
-CxE

Melody Cross · Apr 19, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I agree that Deny is more difficult to use than veil, but the idea to a build using it should be to have many different DF skills on your bar. Even the Blight should have Signet of Devo too. While it will be rare to get all 3 working in one remove, it can deal with hex stacks when you use it smartly and still serves as an easy quick 1 hex removal in most games.

I like it because it is kinda what everyone has been asking for for a while now. It’s a not elite version of divert hexes. I don’t think Holy Veil can ever be replaced as a hex remover in a 2-monk backline, but should see play beside it.

A veil/deny remover in a 2-monk backline may prove more varied than a veil/veil. That way we are slowing down hex teams with veil messing up cast times and also carrying a cheap stack remover that can strip the cover hexes off.

In a 3-monk backline though, it has a place for sure

GGs