Curse

Millus · May 16, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Hell everyone

I've just started this game, and started as a mesmer. Now, as a second class i took necromancer, because it sounded cool

Now I've come to realize, that the second class might be a little more important, than just whats cool, so could any1 tell me if it was good ? I'm atm lvl 4 ( just started:P) so i don't mind changing

Any feedback?

Cheers

Skycluster · May 16, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Me/N combo is good. Illusion magic from the mesmer and curses magic from the necro gives a good combination for quick degen. Plus many necro skills are slow , with fast casting its soo much easier to spam those spells.

Millus · May 16, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Sounds good

I'll just go with it and see how it goes

been searching a bit, and wondered, why people say mesmer is a bad PvE class?

Dean Harper · May 17, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

They say that because basically, Mesmers arent one of the "stereotypical" professions that fall into one of three specific categories to maximize effectiveness in PvE. Those categories are: Healing, Tanking, and Nuking. Healing, in all obviousness is supporting other characters and keeping the team alive. Tanking is attacking up front and taking the bulk of the damage for the team. NOTE: Tanking also includes the roles that other Warriors and melee characters have, such as damage, and spikes. Nuking, which sounds kind of strange because we definetally arent setting nukes off ingame and killing ppl with radiation. It means that you do heavy damage to multiple foes withing a short period of time. The most obvious example of this would have to be the Elementalist with its multiple AoE spells and spamability.

The Mesmer excels in NONE of these stereotypes. The Mesmer rather falls under all of them at the same time. A Mesmer can use the Domination line to deal damage and "nuke" the enemies, though not as effectively as an Elementalist, and can use multiple interrupts, though not as effectively as a Ranger. With the Illusion line, Memsers can inflict degeneration on foes, though not as effectively as a Necromancer who uses Curses (keep in mind that the two attributes work remarkably well together). We can also use skills from the Illusion line to inflict some slowing hexes and conditions, though not as well as Warriors, Rangers, Paragons, Assassins, and Dervishes. With the Inspiration line, we can steal energy from enemies and heal ourselves. Combined with Monk skills, Inspiration can provide excellent support, and no other profession has such a wide variety of energy gaining skills. They do however, have Primary Attributes that give back energy more effectively than Inspiration does to a Mesmer because you dont have to waste skill slots to get them to work. Fast Casting, the Memser Primary attribute, gives a definite advantage in battle, but serves less purpose in PvE because the only useful skill there is Mantra of Recovery, which makes skills recharge faster.

So you see, Mesmers dont have a niche, and PvE is not there strong point. They do very well in PvP because they reduce the effectiveness of other players which isnt needed in PvE. However, they can be a very fun class to play, but take a lot of dedication and patience to master and finish all campaigns with. If you have any other questions, PM me Millus.

XvArchonvX · May 17, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

In general, most will agree that mesmers aren't the strongest character in PvE, but there are some missions/quests that a mesmer can truly shine in. This occurs mostly in areas with tough, high level enemies/bosses in which a mesmer shutdown can make a difference for the group. Even if they aren't the best choice everywhere, I think they are still definitely fun to play.

ArKaiN · May 17, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Mesmers, step AWAY from the noob.

Here's the deal, buddy: mesmers currently are a pvp class. They're hard as hell to play, and can make or break a pvp team, but most if not all would agree they kinda suck in pve. Currently Anet is working on making them suck less(or so they say), but for now, if you're starting your first character, go with warrior, elementalist or ranger. Those are a hundred times easier to play, and unless you're hellbent on not learning anything(and some people are), you'll pick up the nuances of the game quickly.
Seriously, don't start with a mesmer.

the_jos · May 17, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Mesmer/Necro is a good combination and you can change second profession later in the game.

I don't fully agree with Dean and ArKaiN, I think mesmers are ok in the story-line part of the game. You just have to know your opponents more than most other professions, and ArKaiN is right that's easier to learn on an other profession.
Mesmers are outclassed (except when played in non-standard teams) in Elite areas (Nightfall and Factions), but in a guild team that's less of a problem.

Just play your mesmer and learn the strength and weakness of yourself and your opponent.

Francis Demeules · May 17, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Just play your mesmer and learn the strength and weakness of yourself and your opponent.

Even after playing a mesmer,you will find the game a little more easier with another profession because you already know which monster has that weakness in that area, etc.

If you have any questions, just ask, we will answer and/or just try to find a "how to start with a mesmer" thread or something like that.

Enjoy while playing your mesmer Millus

- Francis -

Millus · May 17, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

wow thanks for the replies!

First of all, I am going for a mesmer

You might think it's stupid to try that class to begin with, but it's challenge and I'm gonna take it

But you might get a PM or 2 Dean

Millus · May 17, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Even after playing a mesmer,you will find the game a little more easier with another profession because you already know which monster has that weakness in that area, etc.

If you have any questions, just ask, we will answer and/or just try to find a "how to start with a mesmer" thread or something like that.

Enjoy while playing your mesmer Millus

- Francis -

Oh i will enjoy it

I will go searching a bit more around this forum

oh and a question to all

I've been playing mesmer now for 5 lvls and i think i do a a nice amount of damage. How come people don't want the mesmers spells where the opponent takes dmg when they attack or when they cast spells? I mean, that seems to me, like 2 very important spells?

SpriteSODA · May 17, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millus

Oh i will enjoy it

I will go searching a bit more around this forum

oh and a question to all

I've been playing mesmer now for 5 lvls and i think i do a a nice amount of damage. How come people don't want the mesmers spells where the opponent takes dmg when they attack or when they cast spells? I mean, that seems to me, like 2 very important spells?

Because the necro has better skills to do the same thing, such as [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill] . The backfire might be stronger than SS, but the SS is more effective AoE (Area of Effect) wise and good vs any opponent.

XvArchonvX · May 17, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millus

Oh i will enjoy it

I will go searching a bit more around this forum

oh and a question to all

I've been playing mesmer now for 5 lvls and i think i do a a nice amount of damage. How come people don't want the mesmers spells where the opponent takes dmg when they attack or when they cast spells? I mean, that seems to me, like 2 very important spells?

[skill]Empathy[/skill] and [skill]Backfire[/skill] I believe are what you are talking about and they are good skills, but an elementalist or warrior can still generally outdamage this in a PvE type setting. Also, both of these spells are only really strong against single targets whereas something like an elementalist can use an area of effect spell to target multiple enemies at the same time. In earlier parts of the game, there aren't a whole lot of big mobs, but later on in the game, mob size tends to increase.

As a tip, I would suggest you familiarize yourself with ways to be a helpful teammate outside or pure damage dealing. Being a damage dealer can do fine in many areas, but there are some places where you can use mesmer abilities to shutdown monks and bosses, which will make the rest of your group much more effective. A good example of this is the mission in the crystal desert called Thirsty River. At several points there is a priest and a timer. Enemies are respawned every 2 minutes unless the priest is killed. Having a mesmer to take out the priest while your teammates deal with the rest of the enemies can really help.

Just understand that a mesmer has a mixed bag of tricks that they can bring to the table, so if you fail a quest or mission, take a glance and at what skills you have that can best suite your situation and build from there. This element to the game as a mesmer can really make the class fun to play.

the_jos · May 17, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

How come people don't want the mesmers spells where the opponent takes dmg when they attack or when they cast spells?

SpriteSODA already mentioned Spitefull Spirit.
PvE enemies are not that smart.
They all bunch together, making AoE spells do more damage for the same energy in the same time than single target spells (like backfire or empathy).
Backfire does lots of damage against casters, but in pick-up-groups, most people will focus on the same enemy. When you put backfire on the monk, he's probably dead after it triggers one time, since the whole team is attacking that same monk.
An other attacker that can also do 130 damage for 15 energy in the same time is just as good as a mesmer in that case. If they can do more, it's even better. That's why elementalist and SS necros are preferred by many people.
They do , in the same time, more damage to more enemies for the same energy.

As a mesmer, you want to go off-target, making life worse for enemies that the others are not attacking. That's not only by doing damage, but also by slowing them down, making them cast slower, interrupt them and blind them.
When played right, most people won't even notice what you did, but will say that things were a lot easier compared to their earlier plays in the same mission/quest.

Renegade26 · May 17, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Im often online with my Mesmer in PvE and I would love to show you its uberness at any time. My IGN is on the left, under my avatar.

Pick Me · May 17, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I agree with SpiritSODA, the_jos and XvArchonvX regarding why Mesmers are not so powerful everyone should love them.

Having said that, you should realize that many people are to afraid of Mesmers because they don't understand their true power. If something dies people assume it was a Warrior, Ranger, Assassin, Paragon, Dervish or Ele that killed them (or a minion, pet, or Necro). If people see a powerful spell being interupted, the Ranger is given the credit.

PUGs don't like Mesmers because they don't see what they truly do, yet, everyone hates monster mesmers (windriders, etc.) because they cause so much damage to PUGs. Strange that PUGs don't want to give the enemy a taste of their own medicine.

Mesmers are true illusionists, they will conceal themselves and their powers by allowing others to think they don't exist. When in reality, they do more than many know. I've seen people, including my own guildies fight while hexed, then ask, "how do I have no energy?" I respond, because the enemies are using Spirit Shackles.

As the_jos already stated, computer AI isn't exactly smart, so using hexes on them is a good idea.

Toutatis · May 17, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

My first character was a Mesmer too, so you're in good company

Starting with a Mesmer is a big challenge because you notice that many of your spells are conditional, and rely on the enemy doing something specific to trigger them. However, as you get deeper into the game, you start to see that you're not only learning about how the Mesmer works, but you're also learning about how all of the other professions work as you have to know what they do in combat to be able to counter them effectively. Starting with a Mesmer is the best crash course in game mechanics you can hope to get.

I also do not believe that the Mesmer is a bad PvE class. While they might be slightly better in PvP due to fewer enemies being around, I've found that having a Mesmer in a PUG in PvE can drastically improve success rates during missions. As a Mesmer, you will want to keep your eyes open, ignore target calls, and focus yourself on identifying and disrupting the monsters which are the true threats to the safety of your party. For example, while the rest of the party is dealing with the enemy monk, you could be neutralising the enemy elementalist before it can nuke your party into oblivion. Also, take advantage of the enemy AI (the_jos and Pick_Me are right when they say that the AI isn't that smart in general PvE). An enemy warrior can and often will Empathy itself to death if the hex isn't removed, although enemy casters will not Backfire themselves to death and switch to their weapon if a Backfire will kill them (at which point you can use Empathy to kill them, if the rest of the party is still focused elsewhere).

Nobody may ever really notice what you're doing so it can be a bit of a thankless profession to play at times, but at the end if the day you can smile and know that you've pulled more asses out of the fire than anyone else ever could.

Millus · May 17, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Sound like I picked the class matching perfectly to me

Not following targets, lot of changes during the game, versatile gameplaye is just what I need!

I've been playing WoW for one year now as a healer, and I am sick of only being able to do one thing :/ So now with this class in Guild Wars I might've found what I'm looking for!

ArKaiN · May 17, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Sigh. I thought we were over this discussion.
Degen? Necros are better.
Nuking? Elementalists.
Interruption? Rangers do it as well as mesmers, and they can also stack -billions on ya with burning/apply
Shutdown? SS or insidious parasite.
Caster shutdown? Breadhead arrow.
blah blah blah. Everything a mesmer can do another class can currently do it better in pve. PvP is another story, sure, but this is a noob, fellas. Don't make him hate the game by not being able to join any pugs for the whole game.

Rainman · May 17, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

PM me in game as Huldra Nix and i can help you

Millus · May 17, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainman

PM me in game as Huldra Nix and i can help you

Appreciated just like all the other advices and helpfull tips