Curse

Fender · Apr 11, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Skills cost 5, 10, 15 or 25 energy. Why no 20 energy skills? There's talk of reducing fiends energy cost to help compensate for the SR change. Right now it would have to be changed from 25 to 15. 15 just seems way to cheap for the utility. 20 might be closer to the "correct" cost. And there's a handful of other 25e skills that would be too powerful @ 15e, but remain mostly unused @ 25e.

So... why no 20e skills?

FlameoutAlchemist · Apr 11, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

No idea. Doubt it's because of some conspiracy or anything that Anet has against the number 20. I've noticed that Anet tends to make all the small, spammable skills (and some elites that almost do the same thing) 5e, or in some cases, 10e. Most party wide or area of effect spells tend to cost around 10-15e.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the skills that cost 25e and such are reserved for Eles and Necros, two classes that have ways of generating or holding more energy than the other classes. I know Dervs have the Avvy of Melandru, which costs 25e, but that's about it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some GW:EN skills cost 20e though.

To summarize my rambling - I don't think they've really had a reason to justify a skill to cost 20e.

Evilsod · Apr 11, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I've never really understood the point of not having 20e skills. A fair few skills that don't quite deserve 25e and are too strong for 15e.

I guess it made energy management skills easier to balance though, mainly Glyph of Energy.

thundercleese_06 · Apr 11, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Don't forget Rangers. Dust Trap, Concussion Shot and Rampage as One are 3 25E skills that I can remember off the top of my head that aren't Ele or Necro. Also, I'm pretty sure theres at least 1 Rit spirit thats 25E.

Crimso · Apr 11, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Mesmers have 25 energy skills aswell like Panic and conjure nightmare.

But on the subject I to would like to see some balance with 20e skills a few I could think of would be aegis,Panic,bone fiend.

Soul of the Scythe · Apr 11, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Song of Power for a Paragon and i beleive there is another 25e shout... can't remember the name though.

on topic, i never really noticed to be honest. thought had never crossed my mind. interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

20 might be closer to the "correct" cost. And there's a handful of other 25e skills that would be too powerful @ 15e, but remain mostly unused @ 25e.

^Agree Unless it's for an ele, 25e skills cost too much for other classes for the most part.

FlameoutAlchemist · Apr 11, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundercleese_06

Don't forget Rangers. Dust Trap, Concussion Shot and Rampage as One are 3 25E skills that I can remember off the top of my head that aren't Ele or Necro. Also, I'm pretty sure theres at least 1 Rit spirit thats 25E.

ty all for the corrections. On this one, the spirit I believe you're thinking of is Shelter.

ss1986v2 · Apr 11, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

i dont think anyone knows why. and that doesnt mean there isnt a reason. none of us have access to the code, nor have we worked on any of it ourselves. maybe there is a legit reason for not having any 20 energy skills.

or maybe they just dont like the number 20...

DvM · Apr 11, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

dont know why, remember someone posted an explenation long time ago, had something to do with:

5...5....10...15....25
5+5=10
5+10=15
10+15=25

orsomething

Renegade26 · Apr 11, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Why aren't there any 6 energy skills either!!!

Probly because they think we're too stupid to handle 5e,10e,15e and 25e. Adding 20e skills would be mind boggling!!!

Or it was seemed unnecessary in every skill so far.

Or indeed Anet hates the number 20, but they do have 20r skills (Ineptitude is an example) so that's doubtful.

lyra_song · Apr 11, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

maybe its a huge bug that will crash the game ;p

Mercury Angel · Apr 11, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Does limiting costs to increments of 5 make any more sense than excluding 20?

Many Ranger skills are balanced in cost for Expertise; Taking that into account, skills that cost 2-3, 7, 12, and such 'exist'. Only a pseudo-existance, but for most Ranger skills, you were never meant to pay retail, a fact that haunts the profession, in part, by making many skills and builds impossible to run effectively with a ranger secondary, though a few rare interesting ones do seep through. (Ex: A/R Critical Barrager for PvE)

Ranger skills demonstrate that there is definitely interesting design space between existing numbers.

I can't say that either makes all that much sense, from a balanced design standpoint, but I guess in the end, the 5, 10, 15, 25 system feels ... cleaner?
I don't think there's a word to quite express what I mean. The closest I can think of is Magic: The Gathering slang, "Grokkable."

Skuld · Apr 11, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

isn't that from a stranger in a strange land?

Mercury Angel · Apr 11, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

isn't that from a stranger in a strange land?

Grokkable? I have no clue. I tried googling it, but it didn't help.
Thanks to your information, though, the google search results were much more fine tuned, and so I've confirmed it; Yes, the word 'grok' originates from that book. Interesting, but off-topic.

Anyway, as I understand it, the word refers to something that feels a blend of intuitive, natural, likeable, aesthetic, and pleasing.

On-topic:
The 5, 10, 15, and 25 system may have origins akin to the 8 skill slots system; 8 non-thumb fingers for 8 skill rings, in the past, which also explains Signets.
If anyone knows something about that (the 5/10/15/25 costing), I'd love to hear it.

Fender · Apr 12, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

moved to PvE Skill Discussion... wtf?

zling · Apr 12, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I think that is has something to do with the code or perhaps with skill/attribute balancing issues such as expertise...

Kashrlyyk · May 03, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Isn´t exhaustion there to create 20e spells?