Curse

Esadha Kephal · May 01, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Someone in my guild was looking for a themed Mantis-based build, but that got me thinking a bit and actually led me to dust off my poor neglected A/Me

He's only lvl 16, so I haven't gotten to test this as thoroughly as I'd like, nor do I have the perfect armor & weapons to support this yet (if it even deserves supporting). Commentary appreciated.

Profession: A/x (prefer a secondary with good cover hexes)
Name: ???
Type: PvE so far... not sure it's up to snuff for PvP of any type
Category: Spiker?/Damage
Attributes:
Dagger Mastery: 12 + ...
Critical Strikes: 11 + ...
Secondary attribute linked to hexes: 6 + ...

Skills Set
1. Mark of Instability (none)
2. (cover hex)
3. Black Mantis Thrust (Dagger Mastery)
4. Jungle Strike (Dagger Mastery)
5. Death Blossom (Dagger Mastery)
6. Falling Spider (Dagger Mastery)
7. Blades of Steel (Dagger Mastery)
8. rez

Yes, this build has no elite!

Summary:
I suppose the goal is to do a quick damage spike, inflicting Crippled (handy if you can catch kiters off-guard) and Poison on the way. Blades of Steel takes advantage of the long chain set up beforehand. The optional Hex slot provides some flexibility for further disabling the target.

The build itself is pretty easy to use.. select your target, cast your two Hexes (1,2), then wade in with your daggers (3,4,5,6,7).

Concerns:
* The usual anti-melee weaknesses will still be in effect here. You will probably have to rely on your team to keep you out of trouble.
* No self heal and no shadow stepping to get the heck of out Dodge.
* The recharge on Jungle Strike can be a pain if you want to rip the chain out two times in quick succession...
* Hex removal on MoI could make the Falling Spider bit useless.

Notes:
*It just occurred to me that the Mesmer skill Fevered Dreams {elite} could make a handy addition in slot #2. You'd then be spreading Crippled and Poison to nearby foes, as well as hitting them all with the "splash" damage from Death Blossom. In that case, adding other status-inducing attacks might be helpful, too.

*If energy management is an issue, Black Lotus Strike (Critical Strikes) could be subbed in for slot #4, but that recharge may be a problem...

Credit: Um. Myself? Unless it's been done before. ^^;

As mentioned above, any advice is appreciated; please be kind to the newbish 'Sin

Saphatorael · May 01, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Siphon Speed is never a bad choice, that or Expose Defenses, but it would get energy heavy then.

Also, the build would have no survivability at all, a big no-no, the lack of IAS (Increased Attack Speed, by skills like Flurry, Frenzy, Tiger Stance etc.) also will make it hard to finish your chain, but IF you manage to get it off, it'll likely be a kill, as is the case with most 5 dagger attack chains

Esadha Kephal · May 01, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Thanks Saphatorael, that's some good food for thought

....And after thinking about it, what about something along these lines:

Profession: A/R
Attributes:
Dagger Mastery: 12 + ...
Critical Strikes: 10 + ...
Shadow Arts: 6 + ...
Beast Mastery: 6 + ...

Skills Set
1. Tiger's Fury (Beast Mastery)
2. Leaping Mantis Strike (Dagger Mastery)
3. Jungle Strike (Dagger Mastery)
4. Death Blossom (Dagger Mastery)
5. Palm Strike {Elite} (Critical Strikes)
6. Blades of Steel (Dagger Mastery)
7. Feigned Neutrality (Shadow Arts)
8. rez

After fiddling with this, I'm starting to see that 5-hit chains may be impractical for common use...

Must turn off "Tekken" mindset...

Skuld · May 01, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

TF is bad, use flurry

Esadha Kephal · May 02, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Ahh, thanks, now I feel like a doof for not reading the full notes for Flurry -- it only subtracts base weapon damage, not skill bonus damage. Annnd it takes no attribute. Thanks, Skuld

So now, revision 3..

Profession: A/W
Attributes:
Dagger Mastery: 11 + ...
Critical Strikes: 10 + ...
Shadow Arts: 10 + ...

Skills Set
1. Flurry (none)
2. Leaping Mantis Strike (Dagger Mastery)
3. Jungle Strike (Dagger Mastery)
4. Death Blossom (Dagger Mastery)
5. Palm Strike {Elite} (Critical Strikes)
6. Blades of Steel (Dagger Mastery)
7. Feigned Neutrality (Shadow Arts)
8. rez

And I imagine Vampiric daggers would be sweet with this.

Yanman.be · May 02, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Can I ask why he need a mantis theme?

[skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill][skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] and you fill in the rest. ( [skill]Impale[/skill][skill]Siphon Speed[/skill] )

Oh and you'd want 13+ CS, and zealous daggers.

Syntonic · May 02, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Not to say anything is wrong with your current build or anything but you are slowly moving into moebius striker territory with each revision (edit: as yanman.be pointed out.) You may really want to consider a moebius setup or if you want to go back to hexes, black mantis thrust (whichever the cripple is) and jungle strike with a hex to get into the black line if you must keep jungle strike as well. If they aren't crippled for sure, jungle strike isn't all that great. "Spiking" also implies deep wound in my opinion.

There is a fevered dream sin build floating around out there. I know of one that used to be on guildwiki as well as a team version with a temple strike sin as the second sin to spread daze and blind to make it fairly deadly as long as you can capitalize on the condition spam while it lasts. However, it may be simply handled better by seperate classes bringing different utility as opposed to a sin which is... more or less a one trick pony at the moment. People may disagree with my opinions here so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

Esadha Kephal · May 02, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Can I ask why he need a mantis theme?

Has to do with liking bugs... (I actually tried building a Mantis/Spider build for them at first, but that was just silly)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

[skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill][skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] and you fill in the rest. ( [skill]Impale[/skill][skill]Siphon Speed[/skill] )

Oh and you'd want 13+ CS, and zealous daggers.

Sweet. Am I correct in guessing that with the short recharges, you could, if conditions are ideal, spam Moebius Strike+Death Blossom ad nauseum? (Kind of the point of Moebius, isn't it?) Or would it be ideal to just throw the Impale on there and get out?

So that's 6 skills.. add in a rez for 7, what would you suggest for the 8th? (or is that meant to stay as Flurry or the like?) Thanks for the thoughts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

If they aren't crippled for sure, jungle strike isn't all that great.

True enough, I threw Jungle Strike in there because of the implied cripple from a lead mantis attack, but if that doesn't work, you're kinda screwed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

There is a fevered dream sin build floating around out there. I know of one that used to be on guildwiki ...

I think I've seen the one you're talking about, though I have to admit my thought was more influenced by the Feverish Archer or whatever build for R/Me while checking it out for my R/*. Same principle though, certainly ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

However, it may be simply handled better by seperate classes bringing different utility as opposed to a sin which is... more or less a one trick pony at the moment.

Well, that's true, and/or your build could be tailored more specifically if you know you're bringing a team with certain skills. With all the conditions a 'Sin can inflict, it makes a good candidate for a condition spreader IMO, either with Fevered Dreams or Epidemic, but that's definitely open for debate. (Playing an A/Me, I may be just a *bit* biased..

)

Yanman.be · May 02, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

MS+DM spam all the way, use Impale whenever you can ( I've mastered the timing by now, depends on target and situation really). You're not really using MS's insta recharge...since 8 sec is your max. Unless you bring a longer RC attack skill offcourse.

Your 4 optional skills could be anything...IAS, Shadow Step, interrupt ([skill]Disrupting Dagger[/skill] ), snare....

Sir Pandra Pierva · May 09, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

You could try for a spike you could use use [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill].

Samurai-JM · May 10, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Moebius instead of FS, the constant DPS is much better than poison can do. Can also use Assassin's Promise as a front hex + a shadow step for a spike build.