Curse

skitzinoc · Apr 01, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'm some what new to this whole thing, please no flaming, just suggestions and pointers.

Critical Strikes - 12 + 2
Dagger Mastery 12 + 3
Shadow Arts 2
Deadly Arts 2

Critical Eye - For 33 seconds additions 7% chance to land critical hit, gain 1 energy with critical hit

Sharpen Daggers - 33 seconds all your critical hits cause bleeding for 14 seconds

Mark of Death - For 5 seconds target foe gains 20% less from healing

Unsuspecting Strike - lead attack. +29dmg, if target was above 90% health deal an additional 38dmg

Temple Strike - Elite off hand - Target foe in interrupted, dazed, and blinded for 9 seconds

Twisting Fangs - Dual attack. +11dmg and suffers bleeding and deep wound for 20 seconds

Deaths Charge - shadow step to target, gain 52 health if target has more health

Return - All adjacent foes are crippled for 4 seconds. Teleport to target ally

Now the mark of death isn't very effective at the moment, but I like that skill. Please make any suggestions and tell me if you think this would work at all. Seems as if some people have access to the game already or some program to determine how well other assassin builds work out.

Rhunex · Apr 02, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

I would suggest switching out the Temple Strike for something else. Though it adds some nice effects, it doesn't do extra damage, and is(imo) a waste of an elite skill. A possible switch could be something like Golden Phoenix Attack, which adds damage to your base damage, plus heals your energy should your enemy have no enchantments(which is common)

I would also recommend changing out Twisting Fangs for Death Blossom, which deals 22 damage to your target, plus all foes adjacent to them. If you're being mobbed, it's a good skill to have(used it myself in the FPE, and it helped quite a bit).

Now, I'm not saying you HAVE to switch those things out, it's up to you, but I personally like using the Golden skills and Death Blossom.

All the other things look pretty good, and it looks like a solid build.

SparhawkJC · Apr 02, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Seems like a good build with some problems. Your combo is made up of 3 skills, none of which cost under 10 energy. Guru lists temple strike as 10 energy but if I remember correctly it was changed to 15 energy during the preview weekend. This makes your combo come out to 35 energy. Even assuming that you crit on a couple hits you're not going to be able to spring that combo on your target without having to wait for energy regen. In my opinion at most you should have only one attack over 5 energy in your combo just in case you miss and need to throw it down again. If you would like to build your combo around temple strike that means both your lead and dual attack should be 5 energy attacks. Some good replacements are Leaping Mantis Sting and Jagged Strike for lead attacks and Critical Strike and Death Blossom for your dual attack. Even though Critical Strike costs 10 energy you'll be getting 8 energy back after you pull it off due to your critical strikes, critical eye, and zealous daggers.

NatalieD · Apr 02, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

I've seen Temple Strike -> Twisting Fangs work pretty well, even without zealous daggers. The cost is a big downside, yeah... but you really get what you pay for.

I would definitely try to go for a cheaper lead attack, though. No sense overdoing things.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 02, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Your chain is both small and undifficult to avoid. If you're going to confine yourself to a single chain, make it as effective as possible so that your enemy's mistake will always lead in a near-death. It looks like you're going for as many conditions as possible, but without some synergetic team build, what's the point? It may work in the random arenas, but it needs revision. You could easily drop Return and Mark of Death for more dagger skills.

Myodato · Apr 02, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Whatever happened to people saying whether they were talking about PvE or PvP ? Or do we suddenly have a whole pile of people that don't know the two are very different ?

If the OP is thinking PvE, then read what Rhunex had to say very carefully. If PvP, then pretend his post isn't even there, as Temple Strike is hideously powerful when used correctly. I'd pay attention to Sparhawk either way, as the change of Temple Strike from 10 to 15 makes it very hard to land a full chain without pausing. (Standard max energy =25, any chain longer than that very awkward.)

To make some more specific comments about your skill choices, personally I think Sharpen Daggers, whilst a nice skill, has no place in this build. You can cause bleeding via Twisting, and you don't want bleeding on before you've landed Temple Strike, as you want to follow immediately after that with Twisting to cover the Daze/Blind with Bleed/Deep Wound to make them harder to remove.

Mark of Death isn't worth it without good Deadly Arts, and barely worth it at all if you only have one hex, as it will be too easy to remove (this depends on what the rest of your team is of course). Personally, I'd drop it just from an energy management perspective.

As for Return - a cripple is great, as everybody will want to run once you've dropped Temple/Twisting on them, but a cripple that teleports you away from your target ? I'd call this a bad case of negative thinking in a very aggressive build. With your use of Temple Strike you have very little energy to use any of the good cripple skills, so I would recommend Siphon Speed to have the same effect. Siphon Speed will need a little more deadly arts to be anywhere near effective of course. My choice would be to drop Critical Strikes from 12+2 to 11+2, which still gives you +3 energy from a critical, but doesn't vastly alter your overall chance of causing one; drop Shadow Arts completely, and pump Deadly Arts as high as possible.

Last point is your choice of Lead Attack, as others have said the only way to go wuith Temple/Twisting is cheap as possible. I would recommend either Disrupting Stab (run up to monk, hit away, wait for him to try and cast Guardian, land Disrupting to interrupt, than smack TS/Twisting chain and watch him hardly ever cast again) or Dancing Daggers, damage not great, but does mean you can land Temple as soon as you're next to your target, giving the extra element of surprise.

Oh, and in anything but the new Alliance Battles/Competitive Missions - don't forget your res. This looks mostly like a PvP build, so should be res sig, but if you do do PvE with it, may aswell go A/Mo and take Rebirth.

skitzinoc · Apr 02, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Thank you for the feed back. This build is going to be for 12v12 team. I will not need to bring a rez sig, however self healing would be nice. I revised the build based on the feedback. Please take a look and see what you think.

ssassin/Mesmer
Level: 20

Critical Strikes: 13 (11+2)
Dagger Mastery: 15 (12+3)
Deadly Arts: 6

- Critical Eye (Critical Strikes)
For 32 seconds, you have an additional 6% chance to land a critical hit when attacking. You gain 1 Energy whenever you score a critical hit.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:30

- Golden Lotus Strike (Dagger Mastery)
If it hits, this attack strikes for +20 damage. If it hits a target that has no enchantments, you gain 11 Energy.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:20

- Temple Strike [Elite] (Dagger Mastery)
Must follow a lead attack. If this attack hits, target foe is interrupted, Dazed and Blinded for 9 second(s).
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:12

- Twisting Fangs (Dagger Mastery)
Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, Twisting Fangs strikes for +11 damage and struck foe suffers from Bleeding and Deep Wound for 20 seconds.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:12

- Signet of Shadows (Deadly Arts)
Target foe takes 17 shadow damage. If your target was Blinded, that foe suffers an additional 33 shadow damage.
Energy:0 Cast:1 Recharge:30

- Critical Strike (Critical Strikes)
Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +9 damage and resuslts in a critical hit.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:12

- Death's Charge (Shadow Arts)
Shadow Step to target foe. If that foe has more Health than you, you are healed for 40..112.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:45

- Ether Feast (Inspiration Magic)
Target foe loses 3 Energy. You are healed 17..41 for each point of Energy lost.
Energy:5 Cast:2 Recharge:8

I really like the signet of Shadow with Temple strike. It will give you 50extra damage at no cost of energy at a 1 sec cast time. It does have a long recharge however I think the benefits far out weigh the recharge time. I also threw in Ether feast for some self healing since I removed return which would be used to get out of sticky situations.

I also saw an elite named Siphon Strength that looks like it could be usefull.

Elite Hex Spell. For 7 seconds, target foe deals -15 damage with attacks and all of your attacks against that foe have an additional 33% chance of being a critical hit.

Do you think it's worth giving Temple Strike for?

Shatterstone · Apr 02, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

i disagree myodate chains over 25 energy. THey can be extreamly efective if set up correctly and offer the flexablity of turning them in to smaller chains to fit certain situation. he has 14 points in critical strikes giving him 3 enrgy back every time he crits. if he has critical eye up and some zealous daggers hes a energy makin machine. i used a 6 chain durning the Fpe that was just deadly. jagged strike+entangeling asp+falling spider+critical strike+moebius strike+twisting fangs=deathhhhhhhhhhhhh. critical strike give me 10 enrgy back. return is an extreammmly effective escape skill. not only does it get you out super quickbut it crpples the person your attacking and any foes around him. you can even use return as a weapon. in the fpe event i would run into a large group of enemies (probally holding the dragon roost) with monk support of course, and then activate return effectively makeing return an aoe weapon. disrupting stab is a very circumstantial spell. if it works for you,ok, but i would suggest a quick and easy lead attack like jagged strike. if ur useing sharpen daggers why not take mark of death out and put in apply poison in makeing u a dot machine.

Myodato · Apr 02, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shatterstone

i disagree myodate chains over 25 energy. THey can be extreamly efective if set up correctly and offer the flexablity of turning them in to smaller chains to fit certain situation....

The point is, with something like Temple Strike -> Twisting Fangs, you want to be able to land the one straight after the other to make it as hard as possible for your target to defend against it. In terms of landing consecutive skills without additional attacks (and therefore time) in between, max energy is the only factor. How fast you get it back via critical hits is almsot irrelevant.

Shatterstone · Apr 02, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

actually it does matter. you have the chance to critical on every hit regardless (normal attacks and skills) so with the incresed chance to crit and the zealous upgrades you can maintain a very high energy level throughout the fight. if your useing a long attack chain use critical strike its instant 10 energy. you also have to added in the four pips the assassin has. all in all i found the assassin to be an energy makin ass kickin machine.

SparhawkJC · Apr 02, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I agree with you Shatterstone that Critical Strikes combines with zealous upgrades and the innate energy regen of should be enough to sustain your attack chain. However I wouldn't be placing all my eggs in one basket by counting on critical strikes for energy gain. All it takes is a defensive stance to have you sitting there with your target still alive and your pants down without any energy.
Also I would not count on being able to be competative with 6 string combos after the actual factions release. Once people gain more exposure to assassins the more they're going to think up strategies against them. At most I would make my combo at 4 attacks and use the rest for utility skills. With 6 attacks where do you have room for critical eye, self heal, escape skill, or hex/res? Dominating your skill bar with attack skills just seems like you're taking away the innate versatility of the assassin and trying to make it into a warrior clone.

Myodato · Apr 02, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shatterstone

actually it does matter. you have the chance to critical on every hit regardless (normal attacks and skills) so with the incresed chance to crit and the zealous upgrades you can maintain a very high energy level throughout the fight. if your useing a long attack chain use critical strike its instant 10 energy. you also have to added in the four pips the assassin has. all in all i found the assassin to be an energy makin ass kickin machine.

You're really missing the point.

Take the build as originally posted, assume he starts with a full bar of 25 energy.

Lead attack, costs 10 energy, if lands as a critical, gets him back 3+1, 4 regen earns him 1 energy in the 1.33 seconds it takes to land. Down to 20 energy.

Immediately uses Temple Strike, cost 15 energy. Once again we'll nicely assume a critical and regen, down to 10 energy, which is just enough to use. Twisted.

This is assuming he does land criticals, and that he starts at max energy. Considering that he will want to pre-cast Critical Eye, Sharpen Daggers, Mark of Death, and then use Death's charge to close, chance of being at max Energy when he starts to attack about..... 1%. This basically means he has to pause before dropping the chain, or part of it, and against any good opponent, that pause will be enough to counter it.

Yes Assassins have perfectly good energy management, I can't disagree with you on that, but when it comes to landing expensive, dangerous chains to spike your opponent before he can respond, max energy is the deciding factor.

Shatterstone · Apr 03, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

i dunno i used a 6 chain for the bettter part of fpe and i was killin machine, of course my critical strikes was higher so every critical i got 5 energy back. i would agrue that the build i used was as effective and versitale as any.
jagged strike
entangeling asp
falling spider
critical strike(energy maker)
moebius strike
twisting fangs
critical eye
return
i know i know, no self heal. I figure if im in trouble i can just use return to get out and it worked exeptionally well in fpe and in 12v12 rez isnt needed. its really just a matter of play style. i enjoyed running in unleashing a monster chain then zapping out. rinse and repeat.