Curse

Glitched · Mar 30, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

For those of you who enjoy playing an axe warrior in the random arenas, here is a very simple build that will do great against most enemies.

(Note: These are my attributes, and I have not yet unlocked all runes. You may wish to use your runes differently.)

Attributes:
Axe Mastery: 15 (12+1+2)
Strength: 13 (12+1)

Skills:
Dismember
Axe Rake
Axe Twist
Executioner's Strike
Protector's Strike
Plague Touch
Battle Rage (elite)
Rez Sig

Basically, maintain Battle Rage, re-casting just before it ends. Keep chaining the first four skills for some easy damage + conditions, and use Protector on anyone who tries to run. (they should be crippled) Because protector's is your only other energy skill, you can you plague just about whenever you're hit with a condition.

You can get through the defenses of most monks, so the only thing you really need to worry about is an anti-warrior build.

Savio · Mar 30, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitched

You can get through the defenses of most monks, so the only thing you really need to worry about is an anti-warrior build.

No, not against a decent boon prot. No IAS of any sort to pump out 50% more damage, and Axe Twist is... subpar. (Casters don't care if they do 66% less damage, and Warriors can power through it with attack skills.)

My base RA build W/:

Lieutenant's Helm, Stonefist Gauntlets, Knight's Boots, Gladiator Hauberk and Leggings: You deal with hexes a lot, and having Stonefist on all the time barely hurts.

Axe Mastery: 13 (12+1) - normally I'd go Superior, but there's too much degen flying around RA.
Strength: 10 (9+1) - minimal more damage. If you're using your secondary you can take the points out of this for it.
Tactics: 10 (9+1) - Healing.

Sprint - need to get in their faces. Also cancels Frenzy. A very good alternative is Rush, although if you're out of Adrenaline it can get awkward.
Frenzy - yes, complain about double damage, but the alternatives are Flurry which does significantly less damage and drains your energy like crazy, or Tiger's Fury which requires you to dump points in Beastmastery.
Eviscerate - best attack skill ever. If you don't have this on your skillbar, you might as well go with a sword.
Executioner's Strike - Eviscerate's best friend. Use right after for best results.
Healing Signet - can't expect to get a Monk, or a competent one, so self-healing helps. Make sure you time it right though and don't use it under heavy fire.
Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA. Whichever side has more to use and gets more off generally wins. Don't wait until you're almost dead to res people; do it as soon as you can (although watch for the Distracting Shots of Rangers.)
Blank slot - you can run whatever you want here. Consider what RA is mainly made up of:
- Paladins with Healing Hands
- Paladins with Gladiator's Defense
- Necros with Life Transfer
- Necros with Spiteful Spirit
- boon prot monks with CoP
- Cripshot rangers
- Escape/Dodge rangers
- Mesmers with Ineptitude
- Other builds, both good builds and crappy ones
You want counters, as hoping someone else has one tends not to go so well. However, you can only prepare for so much. Some options I've had (may need to respec for secondary):
- Wild Blow: Stance tanks/monks/necros? Gone.
- Bull's Strike: Nail running enemies.
- Axe Rake: You can get some runners with this. Use after Eviscerate.
- Disrupting Chop: like I said, Res Sigs are very important, so disabling one for 20 seconds is very useful.
- Plague Touch (/N): Keeps those dirty conditions like Blind and Crippled off of ya.
- Holy Veil (/Mo): Helps against SS/LT, although you're not going to be wholly successful in staying clean. Just try not to use Frenzy under SS or Empathy and heal when needed.
- Drain Enchantment (/Me): "omg i lost mending i must recast it". Also helps with energy.
- Shock (/E): knockdown and minimal damage. Can be used to interrupt.
- Tiger's Fury (/R): faster attacks without the double damage.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 30, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I just can't get on with Battle Rage-hammers aren't scary without Devastating Hammer or Backbreaker, axes aren't worth looking at without Eviscerate, and it doesn't go well with swords since Final Thrust also causes you to lose all adrenaline.

holden · Mar 30, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio[*

Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA. Whichever side has more to use and gets more off generally wins. Don't wait until you're almost dead to res people; do it as soon as you can

thats ftw

if res sig was elite good players would still bring it

Murder In China · Mar 30, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Battle Rage[E] works well with a Sword user never with a hammer or axe.

Seef II · Mar 31, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

It's good until you get crippled and have to get rid of it somehow, depleting all of your adrenaline. Still usable in RA though.

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 31, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Unfortunately in PvP, both logically through testing and mechanics, the MUST HAVE skills on a warrior skill bar are ALWAYS with concerning weaponry...

Speed/IAS I've seen other warriors do without cause they use alternate buffs with lesser risk... [perhaps an enchantment to increase dps or a skill that contains] But the weapon choice is paramount and unless you have these elites on your bar, people will just say you suck and there's no fact/logic in the world that can prove them wrong... [believe me, I tried...

]

If you use an axe in PvP, you either bring Eviscerate, or don't use an axe. Many people will tell you this and there is NO OTHER SKILL the axe has that can make up for it. Sadly, you just have to accept it as a fact, not opinion...

If you're a hammer type pvp, you bring Devastating Hammer, or don't use a hammer. Again, same explanation as above, it's the lowest costing adrenaline skill a hammer can use that doesn't drain all adrenaline on the knockdown... No other hammer elite comes close... Or 2ndary/primary elite for that matter...

Now for all you SWORD lovers out there, you have a TON of options to work with. You don't need to worry about a spike, though conditional, Final Thrust can REALLY put the hurt on, despite the 10a. lose all a. condition + 50% or less hp, blah blah, but that's all the blam a sword user will need.

If you want flexibility/utility/more options, then Sword is the weapon for you! If you want proven damage/etc, then Axe/Hammer would be better...

sh4ft3d · Mar 31, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Battle Rage[E] works well with a Sword user never with a hammer or axe.

I thought that Battle Rage was almost always an axe stance? Am I wrong? Final Thrust just doesnt combo well with Battle Rage.

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 31, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh4ft3d

I thought that Battle Rage was almost always an axe stance? Am I wrong? Final Thrust just doesnt combo well with Battle Rage.

An Axe user with Battle Rage can't Spike, or rather, do a spike worth damage, and is therefore, less of a threat...

You want to do something worthwhile on the battlefield? You either Eviscerate or use another weapon lol...

lzlz · Mar 31, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

An Axe user with Battle Rage can't Spike, or rather, do a spike worth damage, and is therefore, less of a threat...

You want to do something worthwhile on the battlefield? You either Eviscerate or use another weapon lol...

And we got a hardcore AXE lover here. I hope I didn't kill your character in TA/RA with any one of my 8 characters.

A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely. A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air.

By the way, a build with only two attack skills is surely not enough in the current TA/RA situation, unless you meet a lame team who doesn't even know what they are doing --- "Are we doing mission? I brought my axe and Eviscerta! RAWR!"

P.S. a hammer warrior with proper build and knockdown skill will own an axe warrior in no time. Most likely you just find yourself jumping up and down on the ground. I hope you did press your Frenzy as well to feel what is "deadly" Critical Damage x 2.

a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta. Oh yea, baby! Don't forget to spike me hard with Frenzy. I'm not good at math. What is the damage? 68 x 2 = 136? Not too much, not too much. "Eviscerta {E} still pwns!".......

OMG LOL XD

Savio · Mar 31, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

And we got a hardcore AXE lover here.

No, what Yukito is saying, what all of us say really, is that without Eviscerate there's no point in using axe. An Axe Warrior's greatest strength is Eviscerate.

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A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely.

So what do you rely on then? Defensive stances?

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A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air.

A simple disruption/interupt skill screws over quite a few people, actually.

Quote:

By the way, a build with only two attack skills is surely not enough in the current TA/RA situation, unless you meet a lame team who doesn't even know what they are doing --- "Are we doing mission? I brought my axe and Eviscerta! RAWR!"

Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike does 200-300 damage on its own. With an IAS that's in the space of a second. And then you have two extra slots for other attack or utility skills.
By the way, in the current RA situation you wouldn't bring a Warrior if you wanted to be most effective. No guaranteed support for the Warrior = sucky Warrior.

Quote:

P.S. a hammer warrior with proper build and knockdown skill will own an axe warrior in no time.

P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe.

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a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta.

You're assuming two things:
1. That a Warrior is attacking another Warrior. Happens in RA but shouldn't be taken for granted.
2. That Riposte is used just before Eviscerate is. Unless you have prescient powers that allow you to predict when the other person is going to Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike you, Riposte is hardly the end-all skill to Eviscerate or to any other skill.

holden · Mar 31, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta. Oh yea, baby! Don't forget to spike me hard with Frenzy. I'm not good at math. What is the damage? 68 x 2 = 136? Not too much, not too much. "Eviscerta {E} still pwns!".......

OMG LOL XD

what are you talking about lz? are you halfass saying riposte is a better skill than eviscerate?

lzlz · Apr 01, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No, what Yukito is saying, what all of us say really, is that without Eviscerate there's no point in using axe. An Axe Warrior's greatest strength is Eviscerate.

It seems everyone has a problem in reading. What is the original question by the thread starter?

And what Yukito implying is that it seems Axe+Eviscerta is the only choice you could possibly use as an effective warrior in game ever, putting his personal obsession into something that You and Him regarded as "facts". Of course there is no point to use an axe without Eviscerta. Without "Eviscerta", I think Axe may be the least used melee weapon in game. Without "Eviscerta", Axe does not even worth for your obsession

Quote:

So what do you rely on then? Defensive stances?

Why would I use Defensive Stance? Did I mention it? Or you assume that I use it? I said you should NOT rely one single attack skill as a core of your build. Your build only has Eviscerta + Executioner Strike. There is NO WAY you could make 300 damage even on AL 60. Please show me numbers and screenshots to prove it (as You and Him always emphasize on the so-called statistics)

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A simple disruption/interupt skill screws over quite a few people, actually.

Yes, but since you only have two attack skill (both need 8 adrenaline) and Eviscerta is Your almighty skill to deliver the "300 damage", you will be the one who is screwed really bad if your "Eviscerta" is being interupted or shut down. You have to wait for 20 seconds or more, or you need to build up your 8 adrenaline again. So is it effective?

Quote:

P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe.

And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs".

Quote:

Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike does 200-300 damage on its own. With an IAS that's in the space of a second. And then you have two extra slots for other attack or utility skills.
By the way, in the current RA situation you wouldn't bring a Warrior if you wanted to be most effective. No guaranteed support for the Warrior = sucky Warrior.

The original poster is asking for a build in RA, not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes), and you seem to have knowing it too (see your own post you have mentioned it is for RA too). In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA.

Quote:

You're assuming two things:
1. That a Warrior is attacking another Warrior. Happens in RA but shouldn't be taken for granted.
2. That Riposte is used just before Eviscerate is. Unless you have prescient powers that allow you to predict when the other person is going to Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike you, Riposte is hardly the end-all skill to Eviscerate or to any other skill.

You have a problem. You are assuming that eveyone or evey single "pro" players in this game THINK like exactly the same as you. It is not true. The top 50 guilds have a huge variety of team formations and there are many guilds which only use hammer/sword warriors. Of course there are many guilds which only use axe warriors too. You can even find IWAY them too (that's hilarious). Most probably you will see the highest presence of axe warriors in HoH.

No, but Yukito were asking me another melee skill which does a damage same or better than Eviscerta. And Riposite is indeed a skill which is much more effective and powerful than Eviscerta. If you are talking about the condition to use the skill (which is being attacked by melee), then there is also a condition for Eviscerta (which is to use 8 adrenaline and provided that the person is not blocking/evading your attack). And as I have said many times, this is for RA. "Please show me the numbers and statistics" for the probability that a warrior will not get hit by another warrior in RA/TA.

lzlz · Apr 01, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

what are you talking about lz? are you halfass saying riposte is a better skill than eviscerate?

I never say a skill is better than other. There is NOT one single skill indefinitely better than others. Each skill has its use and utility and can be effective if combined with other skills and build. It is all because you guys have bias and extreme obsession on axe/Eviscerta and only you guys will ever say something like "Axe/Eviscerta is the best weapon/skill you can ever use in game"

It depends on the situation. If an axe warrior is attacking a sword warrior with riposte, the axe warrior will get owned if he keeps attacking the sword warrior. The faster you attack, the quicker you die. This always happens in RA/TA.

romeo_longsword · Apr 01, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely. A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air.

What do you recommand for a good axe player to depend on inorder to be effective while under a simple disruption/interupt skill?

Axe rocks.

lzlz · Apr 01, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeo_longsword

What do you recommand for a good axe player to depend on inorder to be effective while under a simple disruption/interupt skill?

Axe rocks.

Simple - bring one more attack skill, or bring skills which can help you from being interupted

Yea, axe rocks. Good for you. Who's gonna be next to say it?
I have several sets of armor w/runes for using different weapons. I do have a perfect Chaos Axe customized. But I rarely use it. I never disregard the effectiveness of a weapon. But when I see people confessing that one weapon > another weapon based on their stupidity, ignorance, and so-called "statistics", I will just shut their mouth off.

Byron · Apr 01, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

The idea of structuring a warrior around RA is pretty silly to me, since you cannot know what to expect. A blind puts you out of commission, and if you have no self-purges, then you are very effectively screwed. And that's only one example.

Why not practice for the big time? Not to toot my own horn, but:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000023

Savio · Apr 01, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

It seems everyone has a problem in reading. What is the original question by the thread starter?

There isn't one. The original poster was just sharing their RA build. I chose to share my own.

Quote:

And what Yukito implying is that it seems Axe+Eviscerta is the only choice you could possibly use as an effective warrior in game ever,

Actually, he said that Eviscerate is the only option for Axes. As the rest of us here play Warriors of varying weaponry (I play Swords and Axes, stopped playing Hammer months ago) we know there are other effective options. All I see the rest of us saying is either go Eviscerate or switch weapons. Quote any of us where we say differently.

Quote:

Your build only has Eviscerta + Executioner Strike.

If you read my build, you'd realize there are only 6 skills. Those 6 are the core of my build. I usually put in one other attack skill and a knockdown skill/attack. Disrupting Chop and Bull's Strike are the ones I'm currently playing around with, as runners and Res Sig are two quite prevalent occurences in RA.

Quote:

There is NO WAY you could make 300 damage even on AL 60. Please show me numbers and screenshots to prove it (as You and Him always emphasize on the so-called statistics)

Say target is running directly away from you (a rather bad move, as they should be strafing), which means that if you hit their backside while running, you get a critical. That's 63 damage with a max axe at 16 Axe Mastery. With any points in Strength, you'd be doing even more damage. Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike both do +42 damage, so each hit is 105 damage. Then the Deep Wound effect of Eviscerate reduces both max health and current health by 20%, at a maximum of 100 health. Against a base 480 health, that's 95 health. 105 + 105 + 95 = 305 damage.

Deep Wound is the deadliest condition, and the Warrior's ability to inflict that with any weapon is one of the reasons they are so powerful. The only other class that is capable of inflicting it is a Mesmer. Eviscerate, Gash, Crushing Blow... these are skills you shouldn't go without for an attacking Warror.

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Yes, but since you only have two attack skill (both need 8 adrenaline)

Final Thrust is 10, Gash 7, Backbreaker 10, Devastating Hammer 7. The more powerful Elites obviously cost more for balancing reasons. I don't see an issue here.

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and Eviscerta is Your almighty skill to deliver the "300 damage", you will be the one who is screwed really bad if your "Eviscerta" is being interupted or shut down. You have to wait for 20 seconds or more, or you need to build up your 8 adrenaline again. So is it effective?

So, by your logic, if you have any skill that isn't a stance or shout, it's ineffective because it can be disrupted. Sorry, I'm not buying that. What if a necro's SS is interrupted? Energy Drain? A Res Sig? Do you toss them out because there's a chance that they might be interrupted? Those all are slower and more distinctive than Eviscerate, which under an IAS has a 8/9 second swing time. SS is 2 seconds, Energy Drain 1 second (faster with a primary Mes), Res Sig 3 seconds. As far as I've seen in RA, Eviscerate gets off easily, but try a Res Sig around a Ranger and you're begging to waste 3 seconds of your time. I'm still bringing Res Sig and Eviscerate, or whatever else I feel like bringing.

Quote:

And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs".

What does hammer have to do with axe? About the same as Mesmer has to do with Warrior. That is, there is no "better" profession or "better" weapon. You, who say we foam at the mouth over axes when we don't, attempt to say that hammers are better than axes just because a hammer warrior can knocklock an axe warrior. Talk about non-sequiturs.

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The original poster is asking for a build in RA

No, the OP just posted their build, and I posted my own. Don't see where you are getting a question from.

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not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes)

"My base RA build W/:" (me)
"Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA." (me)
"Still usable in RA though." (Seef II)
"By the way, in the current RA situation" (me)
"Happens in RA" (me)
I don't see where any of us talk about GvG, at best Yukito refers to it as PvP, but he plays Arenas enough to understand exactly what to face. I mainly play Arenas anyway, so I couldn't completely describe the standard GvG warrior right now.

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So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA.

Let's take your reasons for one Warrior attacking another Warrior in RA:

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It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors.

How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself.

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Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger".

Then what? Do you think they'll beat you down then? They're doing even less than the Warrior chasing that Monk or Mesmer around the map (and really, the Warrior should have a speed boost and/or snare, especially in RA where there are plenty of runners.)

You don't plan for the non-threats: the tanks, the Warriors who don't have their priorities straight. You plan for the major threats, like the ones I listed above, minus the cracks I made about Paladins.

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You have a problem. You are assuming that eveyone or evey single "pro" players in this game THINK like exactly the same as you.

And you have a problem because you keep thinking we're all diehard axe Warriors, which is completely wrong.

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The top 50 guilds have a huge variety of team formations and there are many guilds which only use hammer/sword warriors.

Now who's trying to compare this to GvG? At any rate, swords are used quite often in GvG because of the value of "Charge!" there, which doesn't quite have the same impact in RA. Hammers, however, are quite renowned in Arenas for being able to knocklock and eliminate a target in RA because of the lack of support you find in 8v8 battles.

No, but Yukito were asking me another melee skill which does a damage same or better than Eviscerta. [/quote]
Riposte isn't melee, it's counter-melee. It requires someone to hit you in melee. Rangers, except for bunnythumpers, don't hit you in melee. Mesmers don't, except for IW, and IW damage still goes through Riposte. Eles, Monks, and Necros definitely don't. So you have a counter versus roughly a sixth of the classes, and even then many Warriors will just switch to someone else once they see the damage from Riposte float up. So now you have a skill that counters those that either don't have a more important target to hit, in which case they'll hit you regardless of riposte, or those that are attack you because they're inexperienced, in which case you've already won.

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If you are talking about the condition to use the skill (which is being attacked by melee), then there is also a condition for Eviscerta (which is to use 8 adrenaline and provided that the person is not blocking/evading your attack).

You conveniently forget Riposte's "conditon" of 4 adrenaline, and that it requires someone to hit you in melee. Riposte counters one specific class, while Eviscerate hits all 6 classes quite well. It's not like RA is severely flooded with Warriors; while they are a bit more popular there than other classes, you still have a large number of the other classes showing up to pummel you. And Riposte won't save you from that. Go post your effective RA build, if you so care to grace us with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The idea of structuring a warrior around RA is pretty silly to me, since you cannot know what to expect. A blind puts you out of commission, and if you have no self-purges, then you are very effectively screwed. And that's only one example.

Why not practice for the big time? Not to toot my own horn, but:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000023

I wouldn't call HA big time, as most of it is silly gimmick builds, and the few builds that aren't end up having to counter all of those. If you're going to do RA or any form of PvP, you might as well do it right. Play to win.

lzlz · Apr 01, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

There isn't one. The original poster was just sharing their RA build. I chose to share my own.

When he posts a build here, is he asking everyone to read, think, and comment it? Or is there a point of posting it in forum? Simple logic.

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Actually, he said that Eviscerate is the only option for Axes. As the rest of us here play Warriors of varying weaponry (I play Swords and Axes, stopped playing Hammer months ago) we know there are other effective options. All I see the rest of us saying is either go Eviscerate or switch weapons. Quote any of us where we say differently.

Then why Eviscerate is the only option for Axes? Just because it has the highest potential for spike? Why Axe warriors cannot play a role like a sword warrior to bring "charge" and play as a split squads? You are assuming that Axe will do the highest damage no matter what, and you are assuming that all Axe warriors must be a spiker, but nothing else. So it is like you can either be an axe-spiker or use another weapon? So is it that other classes also has a "forumla" and "restrictions" that you must use a specific skill/weapon?

When you say this, you are assuming that Axe warrior actually has the most limited flexibility of game play. And you are assuming that only the build you've listed is the most effective. Then show me the numbers and statics that an Eviscerate-Axe warrior can be the ONLY OPTION ever for Axe warriors.

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If you read my build, you'd realize there are only 6 skills. Those 6 are the core of my build. I usually put in one other attack skill and a knockdown skill/attack. Disrupting Chop and Bull's Strike are the ones I'm currently playing around with, as runners and Res Sig are two quite prevalent occurences in RA.

The other skills are either interupt or knock down skill. They are not attacking skills which fits in your aim as a spiker. The fighting environment for RA is 4 vs 4 tight battle. That means you won't have much space and time to extend or to get away from target. So what is the point of being a spiker with only two attack skills (which require 8 adrenaline each)?

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Say target is running directly away from you (a rather bad move, as they should be strafing), which means that if you hit their backside while running, you get a critical. That's 63 damage with a max axe at 16 Axe Mastery. With any points in Strength, you'd be doing even more damage. Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike both do +42 damage, so each hit is 105 damage. Then the Deep Wound effect of Eviscerate reduces both max health and current health by 20%, at a maximum of 100 health. Against a base 480 health, that's 95 health. 105 + 105 + 95 = 305 damage.

There are 6 assumptions for the damage you've described:
- You have 16 Axe Mastery + high strength (probably 11/12+)
- The target is running away from you and you do a critical hit
- You have your adrenalines charged up for both skills
- You keep chasing the target (even you are over-tended from your teammates)
- The target has 480 health or more
- You can hit your target twice in a row before they got healed/they interupt you/you got blinded/you got knocked down/you got crippling/and more...

I doubt the probability and effectiveness under these assumptions.

Talking these assumptions, let me show you the damage of the sword skills:
- Sever Artery (4 degeneration x 26 seconds = 104 damage)
- Gash (55 critical hit +21 damage + deep wound = 55 + 21 + 96 = 172
- Final Thrust = 55 + 43 = 98 (or 55 x 2 + 43 = 153)
Total = 374 (or 429 if the target's health is below 50%)

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Deep Wound is the deadliest condition, and the Warrior's ability to inflict that with any weapon is one of the reasons they are so powerful. The only other class that is capable of inflicting it is a Mesmer. Eviscerate, Gash, Crushing Blow... these are skills you shouldn't go without for an attacking Warror.

Why it is the deadliest condition? Because it does -20% of the maximum health? How many times you die because you got poisoned, crippling, blinded, disease or more? There is NO "dealiest" thing in this game. Any condition/skill that can effectively kill you is "deadly" already.

In RA, battles are usually short and tight. Time is critical and you have to kill fast, especially you may not have a monk to heal you. I cannot see anything you can do if you are blinded. Or if a ranger keeps crippling you and giving you poison. What can you do? Keep running and use Healing Signet? Oh wait, you said you have high strength. Then how many tactics do you have? 9? So it is like +107 health?

The reason why I keep arguing with you guys is that you guys assume everything you said = 100% facts / 100% correct / 100% works / 100% accepted by all "pro" players. So are you the game designer of GW?

Everything you thought/said is all based on your personal experience. Then why your experience is something more worthy and is something that is more true than others? Who are you? Savio? Who is it?

I never said what I said is right. See your intention for argument is to prove what you said is absolutely correct, while what I'm arguing is that what you said may not be absolutely correct.

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Final Thrust is 10, Gash 7, Backbreaker 10, Devastating Hammer 7. The more powerful Elites obviously cost more for balancing reasons. I don't see an issue here.

There is not an issue of course. But it just shows that it may not be effective as a spiker under a time critical situation (i.e. RA/TA).

In balanced GVG group, you will have well communication with your guildmates, and you usually have much more time/space to engage in multiple fights. You can hit warriors nearby to charge up adrenaline and then spike the low AL casters.

But in RA/TA, you may not have enough opportunities to charge up your adrenalines fast in order to spike. You cannot even use Frenzy frequently since you will be an easy target by most casters (who will constantly cast spell/hexes/conditions/interupt) or even warriors most of the time.

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So, by your logic, if you have any skill that isn't a stance or shout, it's ineffective because it can be disrupted. Sorry, I'm not buying that. What if a necro's SS is interrupted? Energy Drain? A Res Sig? Do you toss them out because there's a chance that they might be interrupted? Those all are slower and more distinctive than Eviscerate, which under an IAS has a 8/9 second swing time. SS is 2 seconds, Energy Drain 1 second (faster with a primary Mes), Res Sig 3 seconds. As far as I've seen in RA, Eviscerate gets off easily, but try a Res Sig around a Ranger and you're begging to waste 3 seconds of your time. I'm still bringing Res Sig and Eviscerate, or whatever else I feel like bringing.

No, did I say that a skill is NOT effective if it is not a shout/stance? You have poor logic in thinking and interpretion. I said your build may not be effective because it only has two attack skills which both require 8 adrenalines. The "effectiveness" refers to how a skill contributes to the aim of your build, in this case, which is as a spiker.

There are many other skills which are extremely useful and effective. I will say Rez Signet is something which has very high effectiveness in RA/TA battles. And Rez Signet is effective no matter what build you are using.

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What does hammer have to do with axe? About the same as Mesmer has to do with Warrior. That is, there is no "better" profession or "better" weapon. You, who say we foam at the mouth over axes when we don't, attempt to say that hammers are better than axes just because a hammer warrior can knocklock an axe warrior. Talk about non-sequiturs.

Hammer/Sword/Axe are all melee weapons that only Warrior can have the maximum attribute points. They are related but not directly affecting each other as an individual build, but in a team formation. It all depends on one's personal preference and build.

I have mentioned a million times that no weapon is > another weapon. What I'm arguing is that you guys are valuing axe much higher than other weapons, or likewise, putting axe as the ultimate choice for a warrior. That is untrue.

Mesmer is definitely not related to Warrior. Why I mention mesmer? Read what you have written:

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Originally Posted by Savio

P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe.

And see what I said:

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Originally Posted by lzlz

And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs".

Are you supporting my own argument? Or you are putting what you have said (which is wrong) as something originated by me? OMG, that's pathetic.

You not only have poor logic, but also poor memory. I was arguing that it has nothing to do with mesmer (since you said that). And now you are just showing that you agree with what I've said.

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No, the OP just posted their build, and I posted my own. Don't see where you are getting a question from.

I believe most people who post a build here are asking for comments and opinions. Maybe they just want to show off and do not ask for any comments?

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"My base RA build W/:" (me)
"Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA." (me)
"Still usable in RA though." (Seef II)
"By the way, in the current RA situation" (me)
"Happens in RA" (me)
I don't see where any of us talk about GvG, at best Yukito refers to it as PvP, but he plays Arenas enough to understand exactly what to face. I mainly play Arenas anyway, so I couldn't completely describe the standard GvG warrior right now.

Yes, and see what I have said:

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Originally Posted by lzlz

The original poster is asking for a build in RA, not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes), and you seem to have knowing it too (see your own post you have mentioned it is for RA too).

Only losers will partially quote what others said.

I know you are talking about RA. But you seems to throw in situations that you will only encounter in GVG in a build that you so-called for RA only.

From your previous posts, you assume that a Warrior will not attack another warrior in GVG. But it is untrue in RA/TA. And that is what I'm arguing for. Thanks for reminding yourself that you are talking about the PVP in RA/TA. So do I.

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Let's take your reasons for one Warrior attacking another Warrior in RA:

See what I've said:

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Originally Posted by lzlz

In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA.

I hope I have already answered your question in my previous post.

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How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself.

So that means you won't attack a tank warrior for once even until all other 3 opponents died? What if only you and that warrior survive at last in the battle? Yes, definitely a tank warrior will be tough to 1 on 1 with. But isn't that "Eviscerate+Axe" = the "most deadliest" build ever for warrior? Do I miss something? Or what you said is wrong???

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Then what? Do you think they'll beat you down then? They're doing even less than the Warrior chasing that Monk or Mesmer around the map (and really, the Warrior should have a speed boost and/or snare, especially in RA where there are plenty of runners.)

Yes, they like running or they will just stand, taking all damage and think they are "god". So? You STILL won't attack him/her just because you are the superior "pro" players who will stick to the ultimate true theory --- "A Warrior will never attack another Warrior no matter what". Good for you, huh?

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You don't plan for the non-threats: the tanks, the Warriors who don't have their priorities straight. You plan for the major threats, like the ones I listed above, minus the cracks I made about Paladins.

Truly they are not a threat for damage. But are you a threat to them too?? Yes, "Warriors who don't have their priorities straight." (This is again an assumption for GVG. lol). So major threats = Monk and Mesmers, right? How do you spike them effectively with two skills while they are running around the map and a Paladin is chasing you at your back?

Oh wait, you have high strength. So you can heal your sufficiently? So you will have a monk with you FOR SURE, right? Nice. You are assuming an Axe-Eviscerate warrior is a all-rounded warrior who can tank + spike + never die even with hexes/conditions that you will encounter 90% of the time in RA/TA.

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And you have a problem because you keep thinking we're all diehard axe Warriors, which is completely wrong.

Oh really, then why you can only see the Up side of an axe, but not the Down side of it? Is it a merely personal preference + ignorant assumptions + self-centerness? Sure you do "NOT" love axe. Yea, please tell me you are not using an axe + bulwark now.

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Now who's trying to compare this to GvG? At any rate, swords are used quite often in GvG because of the value of "Charge!" there, which doesn't quite have the same impact in RA. Hammers, however, are quite renowned in Arenas for being able to knocklock and eliminate a target in RA because of the lack of support you find in 8v8 battles.

I am NOT comparing to GVG. I am just saying that you should not putting the situation in GVG (i.e. Warrior will not attack another Warrior) into RA/TA.

Yes, "Charge" is a valuable skill in GVG. But is it an excuse that a sword warrior MUST equip "Charge" or an axe warrior will not equip "Charge" for sure?

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Riposte isn't melee, it's counter-melee. It requires someone to hit you in melee. Rangers, except for bunnythumpers, don't hit you in melee. Mesmers don't, except for IW, and IW damage still goes through Riposte. Eles, Monks, and Necros definitely don't. So you have a counter versus roughly a sixth of the classes, and even then many Warriors will just switch to someone else once they see the damage from Riposte float up. So now you have a skill that counters those that either don't have a more important target to hit, in which case they'll hit you regardless of riposte, or those that are attack you because they're inexperienced, in which case you've already won.

Why you are sure that you must have already won if they attack you first? What kind of facts of numbers does your assumption base on? Merely because you are a "pro" player in game and all "noobs" will be no match with you? Is it a pathetic heroism for a team-playing game?

Riposte is counter melee. But it is an extremely useful skill which gives a credit for sword (because only sword can use this skill and no other axe skills give similar or even close effect). For a 4 adrenaline cost to give up to 89 damage, it is truly an effective skill for RA/TA battles, as compared to Eviscerate. For one Eviscerate charged up, I can use Riposte twice, and I didn't even count the chance that I can block your Eviscerta or Executioner's Chop.

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You conveniently forget Riposte's "conditon" of 4 adrenaline, and that it requires someone to hit you in melee. Riposte counters one specific class, while Eviscerate hits all 6 classes quite well. It's not like RA is severely flooded with Warriors; while they are a bit more popular there than other classes, you still have a large number of the other classes showing up to pummel you. And Riposte won't save you from that. Go post your effective RA build, if you so care to grace us with it.

Yes, of course. Please be reminded that I never treat Riposte as part of the attack skills of a RA warrior build. It is just something which will greatly help you when you encounter melee users (especially IW Mesmer or other warriors). I never like to post my build in forum cuz I don't like people to follow me. What is the point for everyone being the same? But I will tell you that I will never use a build like yours simply because:
- It has low spiking potential (with 2 attack skills only and no counter-block or counter-evade skills)
- It does not have any efficient self-protecting skills to against most situations that you will frequently encounter: hexes, conditions, interupt/knockdown, block/evade, IW mesmer
- I never trust a person who doesn't show that he/she is worthy or has enough credibility

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Originally Posted by Byron

The idea of structuring a warrior around RA is pretty silly to me, since you cannot know what to expect. A blind puts you out of commission, and if you have no self-purges, then you are very effectively screwed. And that's only one example.

Why not practice for the big time? Not to toot my own horn, but:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000023

What you are saying is extremely silly and ignorant. You are putting your own preference and assumption into other's freedom of gameplay. Why people are silly if they choose to PVP in RA/TA? So you are saying that GVG is the only worthy place that you should spend your time to PVP or even play this game?

That is bullshit. So should all those thousands of players in RA/TA move to GVG? Or should everyone just stops playing the Campaign and play GVG? What you are saying is completely pointless.

Everyone has their freedom to enjoy the game and play whatever they want. And RA/TA are places that you can have some fun or even practise how you will react in dealing with different situations.

You are absolutely right. Blinding will really shut you off. Then how will you deal with this situation? How will you manage to survive yourself? That's actually part of the fun in RA/TA. Many guilds actually train and practise in the TA. Even The Last Pride did it themselves too. Unless you are the World Championship, I see no point to disregard what they are doing.

SnipiousMax · Apr 02, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I think you're not getting everyone's points Iziz.

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When he posts a build here, is he asking everyone to read, think, and comment it? Or is there a point of posting it in forum? Simple logic.

That's what Savio said, or rather pointed out. You were the one that misread the thread to begin with. He was never asking "What is a build for..." he was posting a build he uses, and Savio's initial post was a comment.

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Then show me the numbers and statics that an Eviscerate-Axe warrior can be the ONLY OPTION ever for Axe warriors.

He did. Point is, Warrior spikes are what kill players. Warriors are meant to kill players. Not take damage, not do energy denial, not cast spells. They are meant to kill a player. It is not enough to bring skills to last longer, if you are not making your opposition last less. Simple attacks will not be enough to kill a player, Spike attacks can catch someone in an akward position and result in death. So for an axe, the only real and usable option to spike with is Eviscerate. Swords use Charge, because the sword spike skill is not an elite.

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The other skills are either interupt or knock down skill. They are not attacking skills which fits in your aim as a spiker. The fighting environment for RA is 4 vs 4 tight battle. That means you won't have much space and time to extend or to get away from target. So what is the point of being a spiker with only two attack skills (which require 8 adrenaline each)?

The point is you only need those two skills to make an effective spike. Sword user's really only need one. So I don't see the point your trying to make here. As for getting away, not sure why you would want to, but he does have sprint and heal sig. That's really all a warrior needs.

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There are 6 assumptions for the damage you've described:
- You have 16 Axe Mastery + high strength (probably 11/12+)
- The target is running away from you and you do a critical hit
- You have your adrenalines charged up for both skills
- You keep chasing the target (even you are over-tended from your teammates)
- The target has 480 health or more
- You can hit your target twice in a row before they got healed/they interupt you/you got blinded/you got knocked down/you got crippling/and more...

I doubt the probability and effectiveness under these assumptions.

Talking these assumptions, let me show you the damage of the sword skills:
- Sever Artery (4 degeneration x 26 seconds = 104 damage)
- Gash (55 critical hit +21 damage + deep wound = 55 + 21 + 96 = 172
- Final Thrust = 55 + 43 = 98 (or 55 x 2 + 43 = 153)
Total = 374 (or 429 if the target's health is below 50%)

Um your numbers for the sword aren't really accurate for the point you're trying to make here. The number's Savio gave happen in two attacks, it's very unlikely they'll get a heal in between two attacks. Your's on the other hand include damage from degen, which is VERY easily countered. So you can pretty much take out the damage done by Sever, cause it's not really part of the spike.

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Why it is the deadliest condition? Because it does -20% of the maximum health? How many times you die because you got poisoned, crippling, blinded, disease or more? There is NO "dealiest" thing in this game. Any condition/skill that can effectively kill you is "deadly" already.

1/5 of your health gone, not counting damage done by the attack or damage bonuses. One fifth. Even if you were to be healed right then by a monk. You are still down 1/5 of your health. Poison, Bleeding, Fire, etc, are all easily countered because the damage doesn't all happen at once. Don't get me wrong, the are great to apply pressure on the healers, but degen doesn't kill players. Cripple, Blind, daze, etc. All great, but the of themselves will not kill a player. Losing 1/5 of your health in addtion to a monster spike will kill you.

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The reason why I keep arguing with you guys is that you guys assume everything you said = 100% facts / 100% correct / 100% works / 100% accepted by all "pro" players. So are you the game designer of GW?

Everything you thought/said is all based on your personal experience. Then why your experience is something more worthy and is something that is more true than others? Who are you? Savio? Who is it?

I never said what I said is right. See your intention for argument is to prove what you said is absolutely correct, while what I'm arguing is that what you said may not be absolutely correct.

Unfortunately, they are facts. What is a fact but a generally accepted and proven theory? Eviscerate works perfectly. The point of an Axe build is to use it. Not opinion, fact.

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No, did I say that a skill is NOT effective if it is not a shout/stance? You have poor logic in thinking and interpretion. I said your build may not be effective because it only has two attack skills which both require 8 adrenalines. The "effectiveness" refers to how a skill contributes to the aim of your build, in this case, which is as a spiker.

You keep point out that Eviscerate and Ex. strike cost 8 hits each. Did you add up how much your sword spike would cost? And did you think to consider that he's using frenzy? MANY MANY warrior attacks/skills are based on adrenaline. Since it is something many many many many builds have in common, it needs to be eliminated from the converstation. It's not helping your case any.

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I have mentioned a million times that no weapon is > another weapon. What I'm arguing is that you guys are valuing axe much higher than other weapons, or likewise, putting axe as the ultimate choice for a warrior. That is untrue.

I'd go through and point out the number of times Savio said that no weapon is better than another, but it'd just waste time as you're either not understanding or listening. WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT AXE IS GREATER THAN SWORD. What we've been arguing is that Axe build w/Eviscerate > Axe build w/o Eviscerate for PvP. That is the basis of this arguement, and as you're arguing the wrong point, you'd do well to re-read the thread.

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I believe most people who post a build here are asking for comments and opinions. Maybe they just want to show off and do not ask for any comments?

Again, no one is saying that it's not that way, why are you bringing it up?

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So that means you won't attack a tank warrior for once even until all other 3 opponents died? What if only you and that warrior survive at last in the battle? Yes, definitely a tank warrior will be tough to 1 on 1 with. But isn't that "Eviscerate+Axe" = the "most deadliest" build ever for warrior? Do I miss something? Or what you said is wrong???

A tank will not be able to kill you as you able to kill it. And why the heck would it be one on one. Do you really know how often that happens? Or if it did happen, what the chances would be that you DIDN'T have a res Sig. Only a fool would try and fight a one on one battle if he didn't have too. It's just not something you see. As it is a extremely rare case, it too can be removed from consideration.

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I am NOT comparing to GVG. I am just saying that you should not putting the situation in GVG (i.e. Warrior will not attack another Warrior) into RA/TA.

Yes, "Charge" is a valuable skill in GVG. But is it an excuse that a sword warrior MUST equip "Charge" or an axe warrior will not equip "Charge" for sure?

Okay, you do not attack the warrior first. You don't ever attack a warrior while there is another target avalible. Again, do you know how often you get an ALL warrior team? Another very Rare instance.

Charge = Elite

Eviscerate = Elite

Axe Spike Build = Eviscearte

Axe spike build cannot have Charge.

That's why.

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What you are saying is extremely silly and ignorant. You are putting your own preference and assumption into other's freedom of gameplay. Why people are silly if they choose to PVP in RA/TA? So you are saying that GVG is the only worthy place that you should spend your time to PVP or even play this game?

That is bullshit. So should all those thousands of players in RA/TA move to GVG? Or should everyone just stops playing the Campaign and play GVG? What you are saying is completely pointless.

Everyone has their freedom to enjoy the game and play whatever they want. And RA/TA are places that you can have some fun or even practise how you will react in dealing with different situations.

You missed Byron's point entirely. You weren't even close. It's like he said something, and you were reading a different post when you did your response. In fact, what he said is closer to your own arguements.